AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[winterrose]

IDK, being dodgy of the media and being unwilling to seek media sure doe's more harm than good in convincing the public eye that your not somewhat involved. Furthermore.... one could also wonder, IF there is some sort of capture out there that they must be thinking that this little girls parents don't care about thier daughter enought to deserve her back. That's ASSUMING there even is an abductor. Unfortunately I feel that if this indeed is a case of a third party abduction this couple will very likely never get her back. These parents need to do more. LE has made it very clear to the public that LE has never at any point said to them to refrain from media contact nor have they told them not to discuss the case. It is overwhelmingly blatently apparent these folks know more about what happened here and they are just stringing the local public along in whatever morally corrupt agenda they may have. I hope they just have her whisked away somewhere and she is still alive. If they truely don't have anything to hide as RC has said then they need to get up there and invite the media into this case and spill thier heart out, give exposure to everything they know of thats been investigated. Who Cares about the prosecution of the case, what matters here is getting Isabel back, prosecution should be the least of thier worries... First get your kid back, let the DA worry about making thier case against the person who did it and by all means if your not guilty, quit acting like you got something to hide.

LE has stated they've encouraged these parents to get out there publicly and talk about Isa. Instead they stayed away from the media for the first week, and said they were private and dealt with things in their own way, "bring it". When you have a missing child, nothing's your way, you do what professionals tell you to get your child's name, face and can possibly be talking to an abductor. Isa could have had the opportunity to be watching tv, and who knows what she could have been going through. It's not about the family, it's not about money coming in "from all over the world", it's the child missing. LE just said it again in the last presser about the parents keeping in the media to keep focus on Isa.

 

[FrayedKnot]

At the risk of jumping in and being eaten alive as a newbie, I have to say I concur with your points of the above cases about each particular perp not leaving evidence behind (or identified by LE as the case may be).

As I looked at the statement made by LE, I took the operative word *adequate* in the sentence to mean that perhaps the clean up could have been better (like being told your dissertation is "adequate" rather than exceptional?). If something is adequate, it is OK, but could have been better (which means they maybe they have identified room for improvement), which begs the question...how could the perp have improved his or her technique in tackling his or her breadcrumbs?

Just a thought and only my opinion...

Welcome! And ITA about inferring what LE meant by "adequate". I think that word has a sort of backhanded connotation and is really a way of saying "well, it didn't suck....but it t'warn't that great...."

JMO

 

[johnQpublic]

LE has stated they've encouraged these parents to get out there publicly and talk about Isa. Instead they stayed away from the media for the first week, and said they were private and dealt with things in their own way, "bring it". When you have a missing child, nothing's your way, you do what professionals tell you to get your child's name, face and can possibly be talking to an abductor. Isa could have had the opportunity to be watching tv, and who knows what she could have been going through. It's not about the family, it's not about money coming in "from all over the world", it's the child missing. LE just said it again in the last presser about the parents keeping in the media to keep focus on Isa.

uhhhh.... isn't that what I said or are you just adding to it...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...I did find the link where LE stated "Whoever is involved did an adequate job of really covering a lot of things that we could possibly look at."
I know it is old as it is from May 5.

I am writing it out as such because I am wondering if it was intended to say, "The perp didn't do a great job, but did better than fair in concealing a lot of EVIDENCE we CAN'T LOOK AT BECAUSE OF ________fill in blank"

OR

"The perp traveled over a good distance leaving an adequate (read, OK) trail of evidence that we could possibly (past tense, maybe? Noncommittal? Seriously? If this was my boyfriend, I would DUMP HIM!?! Sorry, I digress). Can evaluate.

Adequate seems to be the word to describe the case. Adequately Puzzling.

You're on a roll here, Hannibal, so don't forget that pesky qualifier "really"

 

[winterrose]

http://www.kvoa.com/news/three-ton-pot-bust-in-the-desert/
Wow, this is just an hour below Tucson, these two vehicles in the desert with 6,000 pounds of marijuana, worth more than $3,000,000. These drug dealers really like driving around in the desert meeting up with other druggies. The vehicles were just abandoned waiting for the carrier, I suppose.

 

[winterrose]

uhhhh.... isn't that what I said or are you just adding to it...

Just adding to it, this money thing with missing children is a big deal with me. I want laws to control it.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I do understand what you are saying.

But I have never seen LE say they wanted Isa's parents to discuss the case. IMO, that would be very usual because LE wants to keep the details of the case close to their vests.

Just like Marlene Lamar would not talk about the particulars of her daughters case when asked certain questions because she said she did not want to impede the investigation. I am sure LE told her not to reveal any details such as confirming those were the actual clothes she was wearing that morning and other things we had to speculate about for almost two months because Sierra's family would not divulge detail information.

I think LE wasnts Isa's parents to come out and plead for Isa's return hoping to keep the tips coming in. JMO.

IMO

In fact, LE has encouraged the Celises to speak to the media almost since the beginning of the case. That is correct!

See bottom quote about keeping the case visible

http://m.tucsonnewsnow.com/autojuic...tpd-encourages-celis-family-to-speak-to-media

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Police-ask-Isabels-parents-to-go-public-149609185.html

"TUCSON, Ariz.-- Investigators searching for Isabel Celis, the Tucson 6-year-old who has been missing for more than a week, are encouraging her parents to take more of a role in the case.

"We believe it would be good for them to speak to the media," said Lt. Fabian Pacheco of the Tucson Police Department."

"We've told them all along it's important to keep this investigation in the forefront and to keep tips coming in," Pacheco said."

 

[luvmydogs]

http://www.kvoa.com/news/three-ton-pot-bust-in-the-desert/
Wow, this is just an hour below Tucson, these two vehicles in the desert with 6,000 pounds of marijuana, worth more than $3,000,000. These drug dealers really like driving around in the desert meeting up with other druggies. The vehicles were just abandoned waiting for the carrier, I suppose.

Isn't it so sad, that as a local, I'm immune to this We see this all the time. It really saddens and angers me!

 

[prima.facie]

LE said that the perp(s) did "an adequate job of cleaning up " Remarkable statement.

I wonder,though,if the clean up happened in the dark ? A business has a camera which looks directly at the house. Did the infra- red surveillance camera show any lights going on in that house in the middle of the night ? Or did the clean up happen that morning, say at around 6:30, or a little before that ?

JMO

seriously....how does a napper clean up while carrying a child whom they have to keep quiet and still (unless she was drugged)....but still how does one clean up after themselves with other people in the house...youd think they want in and out super quick....

 

[Deleted member 718]

"So far, questions about who could be involved haven't been answered.

"We're just not at a position yet that we could share those things with you, not at a position where we could tell you we have this person as a suspect or that person as a suspect."

Many are beginning to wonder how much TPD really knows.

"Whoever is involved did an adequate job of really covering a lot of things that we could possibly look at." May 6

http://www.kvoa.com/news/police-say-whoever-did-this-did-an-adequate-job/

What does LE look at when conducting an investigation? Physical evidence, and alibi, motive?

I was reading a blog about Isa and a comment on the blog said to look at the local grocery store. I thought that was a very good idea. There are only so many places a little 6 yo goes as they are too young to venture out on their own. Church, a ball game, the grocery store, perhaps a walk to get a snow cone. It will be someone who blends in and has a reason to be near the home. Are the local swimming pools open yet? I wish we knew more about Isa. Did she take dance lessons or gymnastics? Had she recently been to a quinceanera? One pic on Becky's fb has Isa in a pretty blue party dress with a birthday sash. Who else was there? I know you guys don't know the answers, but I wish we know more about recent events.

I'm not minimizing other poster's ideas, only thinking about this one for a while. :seeya:

moo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In fact, LE has encouraged the Celises to speak to the media almost since the beginning of the case. That is correct!

See bottom quote about keeping the case visible

http://m.tucsonnewsnow.com/autojuic...tpd-encourages-celis-family-to-speak-to-media

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Police-ask-Isabels-parents-to-go-public-149609185.html

"TUCSON, Ariz.-- Investigators searching for Isabel Celis, the Tucson 6-year-old who has been missing for more than a week, are encouraging her parents to take more of a role in the case.

"We believe it would be good for them to speak to the media," said Lt. Fabian Pacheco of the Tucson Police Department."

"We've told them all along it's important to keep this investigation in the forefront and to keep tips coming in," Pacheco said."

Thank you.

That is what I said. "I think LE wants Isa's parents to come out and plead for Isa's return hoping to keep the tips coming in."

Although JohnQ and I were discussing coming out and revealing details about the case. I said I didnt think LE would ever want them to do that. The Sierra Lamar family has known certain things for awhile now but when asked about the details concerning the actual case or what they knew, Marlene wouldnt answer, and said she did not want to impede the investigation.

IMO

 

[Madeleine74]

The best way to find out what investigators look at when they are at a crime scene and how they go about conducting investigations is to ask them directly. Go to your nearest police department and ask to speak with an investigator. It's not necessary to ask them specifics about the Celis case...if they are TPD they won't be able to answer those questions, but to get an understanding of how they do their job, what kinds of things do they look at, do they use checklists, what does it mean when they say the things they say....ask them!

People who don't work in LE have no greater insight to the inner workings of law enforcement than do the people who work in that field and specifically in that kind of job.

 

[prima.facie]

Just adding to it, this money thing with missing children is a big deal with me. I want laws to control it.

YES! How the money is used should be made available to the public.
I seriously believe there should be financial accountability to the public and laws just like with charities and businesses.

 

[johnQpublic]

Well... I think LE knows a whole lot more than they put off, I think they know from surrounding camera's what vehicles came from and to the home that night, I think they know there was some sort of cleanup or lack of trace. I think they have an idea of the motive. I also think they know more than than they are wanting thier suspect to know. I think they know some of the who's, they have the why, they know the what and part of the how but what they don't know is the where. I'm pretty sure they will finish connecting the dots soon... It's only a matter of time.

 

[johnQpublic]

speaking of the fund raisers... I'm pretty sure they are technically required to file for some sort of non-profit status... sure would be funny if when this is all said and done if they tack that on to the charges if any are ever made.

 

[Deleted member 718]

LE said that the perp(s) did "an adequate job of cleaning up " Remarkable statement.

I wonder,though,if the clean up happened in the dark ? A business has a camera which looks directly at the house. Did the infra- red surveillance camera show any lights going on in that house in the middle of the night ? Or did the clean up happen that morning, say at around 6:30, or a little before that ?

JMO

liz b, LE said "Whoever`s involved did an adequate job at really covering a lot of things that we could possibly look at."

Not that cleaning is much different than covering, but I'm kinda OCD about facts. :blushing:

So, not so much cleaning up evidence, but more covering up their tracks. Wonder what that is?? MOO

 

[FrayedKnot]

Thank you.

That is what I said. "I think LE wants Isa's parents to come out and plead for Isa's return hoping to keep the tips coming in."

Although JohnQ and I were discussing coming out and revealing details about the case. I said I didnt think LE would ever want them to do that. The Sierra Lamar family has known certain things for awhile now but when asked about the details concerning the actual case or what they knew, Marlene wouldnt answer, and said she did not want to impede the investigation.

IMO

I know. I was agreeing with you that LE has said all along their visibility would help Isa's case. I know it wasn't the main point you were making, but it struck a chord with me.

Jumping off your convo with JQP, I am sure LE wouldn't want the Celises to share any sensitive info, but since they are proclaiming innocence, they really wouldn't have anything TO share.

Wouldn't they be just as clueless as the rest of us?

Unless they are involved.

 

[FrayedKnot]

YES! How the money is used should be made available to the public.
I seriously believe there should be financial accountability to the public and laws just like with charities and businesses.

True dat!

I work at a private school and if a parent gives the classroom a gift card for supply purchases or new teaching materials, we are required to show detailed receipts for all purchases made.

We don't mind because we are grateful for the gifts!

 

[EquineLuvr]

Just trying to catch up here and cannot believe this has come up again! I have to wonder what it has to do with finding Isa? We have seen the house Isa disappeared from on TV. We have seen the window that was open on TV. I just cannot understand what the cost of the house, or the square footage of the house will help to find Isa or figure out what happened to her.

It is just too hard to attempt to catch up when having to read over and over again about the cost and square footage of the house.

I'm sorry, I just do not understand!! Now I hope I can catch up.

:noooo:

MOO

ETA: I am sorry for being so blunt. I only have just so much time to read the posts and it is hard to read the exact same things over and over. Please forgive me if I seem snarky. I honestly do not mean to. Where is Isa?

Experience has shown me time and time again a couple of things: First is that sex/love, drugs, and/or money are usually at the root of these cases. The house, its size and COST certainly are germaine to the Celises' financial picture. If that info bores you, then maybe you should skip over it? There are countless topics on here that bore me to tears and have nothing to do with Isa's disappearance (e.g., the Preakness, today's weather where a poster lives, past murder cases, etc.), but rather than make the thread even longer with irrelevant opinion posts I just skip those *pages and pages* of posts.

The second is that looking into peripheral characters usually pays off. One never knows what kind of connections, relationships, etc. between peripherals and principals may be unearthed. Actually, I was laying groundwork because my info was leading somewhere. That said, I respect the rules of the forum so am abiding by the mod's request to cease and desist.

That is all I'm going to say on the topic.

 

[liz b.]

seriously....how does a napper clean up while carrying a child whom they have to keep quiet and still (unless she was drugged)....but still how does one clean up after themselves with other people in the house...youd think they want in and out super quick....

And in the dark... Isn't it just puzzling ?