AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[Lava]

This reminded me of RC's earlier faux paux at the first news conference when she started to say "play" - as in play a role - instead of "plea" for the safe return of Isabel. SC was definitely miffed that his wife was unable to read the script as written.

I think that Becky meant to say "at the end of the day" but subconsciously blurted out "end of the story" followed by the explanation about "everything making sense when Isabel comes home" sounds very much like a contrived scene unfolding right before our eyes. :moo:

BBM - When I was listening to the 911 call for the first time, my boyfriend was near me and said that SC sounded very scripted, like he had rehearsed exactly what he was going to say. Wouldn't surprise me if he had scripts for everything else too. :maddening:

 

[Prof]

I can't even imagine the pressure.

 

[Ladylub]

I understand, but I put that down to nerves and wanting correct word choice - cause if she did finish with "end of the story" imagine what people would be saying? lol She didn't say it, she changed it and people are still jumping all over it (with good reason to them of course )

Hard to move a gutfeeling huh? lol

My kids know if you say something you better keep the words you used and explain if it may sound bad. Growing up my cousin was a huge liar so I pick apart a sentence when words are changed b/c that was his way of lying thinking we forgot the words he used when we did not.

I still have not come to a set thing in my mind as to who took Isa. Besides thinking both parents are on the same side. If one did it the other knows and covering up. Or they are both innocent. Things look shady and not in favor of them but a good bit of the stuff can be explained away by other things. Like the use of the word story.

 

[FrayedKnot]

They have to know where to send them to search too. I can't believe if someone knows where this child is that they would just leave her there

If they got a good tip I bet the search and rescue would be out there digging no matter what the temperature. moo

We had a search down here at the landfill a couple of years back and it was so damn hot and humid, they had just as many medical personnel as searchers to make sure every kept hydrated. They had to wear those white suits to search.

Those volunteers are amazing. I can't imagine what an awful task that must be.

 

[white rabbit]

The parks do close at sunset? I think. And there are gates over the main entrance to both parks I think. Button the eastern one, all one has to do is go straight east on Broadway til it dead ends basically at the mountains. There is always access to the desert there, also at the end of Speedway. You just walk on in, no ranger to stop you...

Digging in the washes is easier than not but don't think the sand is very deep and you hit more caliche or even perhaps bedrock. Digging is just not easy out here, usually if you're digging by hand you have to water the soil ahead of time to soften it up.

The foothills of the mountains to the east are somewhat sparsely populated, and there are caves, holes in rocks and a whole lot of rugged terrain everywhere. Wouldn't need to bury a body to make it disappear.

omg please don't say caves...reminds me of a particular disappearance in utah.

thanks to everyone's input. my line of reasoning here is, LE seems to be sticking pretty close to home (the c's that is) in terms of the investigation...reinterviewing, surveillance, etc...i'm just wondering at this point, where could she be?

rick moore's security cameras picked up a lot of activity that night. he even went so far as to tout his own technology, that infrareds could pick up plate numbers. couldn't LE track down those, say, 30 or 40 cars caught on film that night (between 11pm and 6:30am) which stopped at or near the house? and interview the owners? sort of a reverse-amber?

straw...grasp...straw...grasp...

 

[liz b.]

I agree that RC does do this almost every time she's in front of the cameras...she stumbles. IMO she appears more nervous than hiding something, but that's just me.

It is interesting because she once entered a pageant in Douglas..this shyness in front of the cameras must have come later? IDK

They both do stumble in their wording. They did it on the 911 tape, too.
IDK what it means.

When they both stumbled in the 911 call(s), did that stumbling occur when they spoke about Isabel ?

 

[winterrose]

I'm kind of torn on how I feel about RC's words. I don't see her as shy, she's a nurse, coach's wife, involved in the community. I wonder since she knew SC was watching her and he would hear what she said, is why she was carefully choosing her words and thought about them beforehand.

She made it a point to explain why their son went to the vigil instead of SC. She did choose her son over SC and in some interviews she had no problem speaking about the donations. SC started to say something about the funds being used for something else if needed, but she was very adamant the funds being used for Isa's search.

It makes me wonder how she's really feeling towards SC, esp in light of how he talked about her in the 911. It could be he's a dominant personality, I'll leave it at that and she's not wanting to make him mad or whatever the reason, she was being very careful with what she said. I just have two trains of thought on it.

 

[Lava]

They have to know where to send them to search too. I can't believe if someone knows where this child is that they would just leave her there

If they got a good tip I bet the search and rescue would be out there digging no matter what the temperature. moo

We had a search down here at the landfill a couple of years back and it was so damn hot and humid, they had just as many medical personnel as searchers to make sure every kept hydrated. They had to wear those white suits to search.

Honestly, I think just LE would be out there on a tip, with LE dogs. I think it is too dangerous to have volunteers out right now, with 2 people having died from the heat in the last 2 days.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Those volunteers are amazing. I can't imagine what an awful task that must be.

They were our police department Search Team because they were looking for a body - volunteers provided water etc - but the CERT here are very active with police and fire and rescue in this town. It was a hard job, I had rubber soled shoes on and they went soft. that is how hot it was in the dirt! and the media were about 200 yards away and the stench was horrid there

 

[Prof]

When they both stumbled in the 911 call(s), did that stumbling occur when they spoke about Isabel ?

I think so... I think the call was mostly about Isa though, so I am not sure I am answering the question specifically enough? I did not analyze the tape for stumbles, I just remember it happening. Anyone else?

 

[Prof]

Honestly, I think just LE would be out there on a tip, with LE dogs. I think it is too dangerous to have volunteers out right now, with 2 people having died from the heat in the last 2 days.

I saw the story about the hikers

 

[winterrose]

I think so... I think the call was mostly about Isa though, so I am not sure I am answering the question specifically enough? I did not analyze the tape for stumbles, I just remember it happening. Anyone else?

http://www.kvoa.com/news/raw-audio-police-release-redacted-audio-and-transcripts-of-celis-911-calls/

Here it is again.

 

[winterrose]

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf

 

[Prof]

I still have no idea if the family had involvement or another relative or a stranger or the cartel...

My mind is still open to any possibility. That said, I will admit that my mind is not quite as open to rumors, but I do listen to those tidbits and file them where I can recall where they are later.

This case has my heart, and it is so frustrating because there's no real avenue for sleuthing, like there have been in other cases. I am a woman who knows that I will never come anywhere close to knowing it all about anything. I am also a woman who does not fit the stereotype of being "gossipy" and that's probably why I have a hard time believing that LE in this case has "gossipy wives." It's in my nature, and I am always in life searching for any kind of factual support or evidence, even though I know it is a losing battle in this case. That is why when someone asks for general help in tracking something down in this case, I am on it. I personally am not comfortable basing my own theories on anything but evidence (and it can be circumstantial if there's a reliable witness). I only question some avenues for information, not the theories posed here. I specifically come here to consider carefully all others' theories.

 

[galiuro]

The parks I am talking about that are gated would be the two Saguaro Natnl Parks; for sure the eastside park has a gate over the paved loop that travels thru the Park. I mention this because I know of one place off that loop that has a cistern: its a rocky place that has what looks like a big barrel carved out of the rock, has to be at least 4 feet deep and 2 or 3 in diameter. The time I saw it twas full of water but I doubt it is now. I hiked out there once when my kids were around 8 and 10 so not very far off the road. Just saying there are again tons of ways of making a body disappear that don't involve much shoveling...

 

[WhatsupAZ]

Respectfully <snipped> I frequently feel that Nancy Grace makes statements for "shock value" :what: She didn't just fall off the turnip truck and knew that the comment about "Isabel usually sleeping with her brothers" would raise some eyebrows and lead to speculation about WTH was going on in the Celis home that this 6-year-old girl shared sleeping quarters with her brothers - one of whom is 14 and in the throes of puberty.

But, as she can do so cleverly, NG simply went on to suggest that there was nothing wrong with siblings sleeping together, that her 4-year-old twins sleep together, yada, yada, yada. She completely ignored the fallout from the grenade that she had thrown as her panel of guests and viewers hoisted their jaws from the floor. :moo:

I agree...she can be so frustrating. . However, I have also noticed local news stations spinning and teasing. How many phx locals have run to the tv when they heard "six year old dead" only to soon learn that it was a different little girl who died of the flu. Spin and tease.

 

[LisaB]

Crossed my mind also. I thought of that when they publicly announced the 'no contact' - then it seemed the fact he was now staying at their home was becoming public (before it seemed kind of vague as to where they were staying). But it really struck me that it was blatantly advertised he was home alone when he was filmed peeking over the fence for the last vigil - and now there is an image/still to go with the story. To me, having that image is really powerful because it can be blasted in print and it tells the whole story of where he is immediately.

I did not get that impression at all. I thought he was probably staying with family, and chose his yard as a vantage point to watch the event so that he would not get into trouble. He was not making contact with his kids and was on HIS OWN PROPERTY. He MAY be living in the house, but I did not think the cleaners had come yet.

 

[Shelby2]

I'm just going to repost this for those who have not seen it, covers protocol regarding investigations, interviews, RSOs, media relations.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf

 

[Jules71]

This is from www.bringisahome.com under FAQ's: (not sure if this has already been posted)

Are Sergio and Becky divorced?

Sergio and Becky are not divorced and are the biological parents of all three children; Isabel and both of her older brothers. Currently the boys are staying with Becky and another relative. There are no ex-spouses or step-parents.

 

[white rabbit]

i didn't see the pc yesterday, but this article is calling it a 'flyer', not a questionnaire...and won't give it to media. wonder if there are questions on it that they don't want us to see? maybe it's on the tpd website?...i'll go look...

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local...hope-flyer-brings-new-information-celis-case/

Investigators working on the case of missing 6-year-old Isabel Celis will return to the girl's neighborhood and distribute a new flyer to residents and businesses in the hopes of gathering more information about her disappearance, Tucson Police said.

The flyer, which comes one month after Isabel's disappearance, contains a series of questions for those living or doing business in the vicinity of the Celis home in the 5600 block of E. 12th St., said TPD spokeswoman Sgt. Maria Hawke on Monday.

Tucson Police could not provide a copy of the flyer to TucsonSentinel.com on Tuesday morning.