AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[oceanblueeyes]

I had a thought about the shower curtain in the car. I think it strange, but then I thought about if they transported the dogs in the car to the vet, to the park, etc. they may have used it as a protective covering for the seats. Or seems to me the window was broken or taped. They could have used it to keep the seats dry in case of rain. All just speculation. jmo

Before the car became inoperable if it is.

I think the contents of the inoperable car is another red herring. Police can tell if the blood stain appears to be fresh or old and if they thought for one second Isa had been in that car or if the items had been around her that night.... they would have seized the car too in a nano second and impounded it right away to make sure every inch of the car both outside and inside was tested forensically and the evidence protected.

IMO

 

[Prof]

Do you have a link to that video. I see people referring to it and I have never seen it. Sounds interesting. tia

@ about 1:47 in the linked video
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-tu...ce-videos-hold/story?id=16210060#.T52K_9nh58E

 

[Lark2]

I am sure there is but by this amount of time LE would know that or not.

They wouldnt say they werent leaving above their means if they didnt have something to base it on, imo.

Wouldnt take LE two seconds to pull their credit report in order to see what they owe and how they pay and compare it to their two salaries to know if they were in debt ratio.

I agree that LE does know by now whether they are living above their means, but we don't!!! That's why we're reading the docs, trying to figure it out.

I agree with Eileen that people can be underwater and in debt but not appear to be living "above their means."

 

[Patty G]

Thanks, so the screen may have been damaged when trying to remove it?

The words were carefully chosen by LE describing a "possibly" broken or removed screen.

IMO, based on the way it is stated, I am thinking more in the avenue that either the screen fell out due to broken latches that hold the screen in place, or the screen was removed.

 

[TxLady2]

ABC News: Police documents show new details in Isabel Celis case


Posted: 6:20 AM
Last Updated: 31 minutes ago


•By: Erisa Nakano
TUCSON, AZ - Police documents just released detail new information in the case of missing Isabel Celis of Tucson.

According to an ABC News report Friday on Good Morning America, more than 500 pages of police records go over “apparent blood” found during the investigation and a person who possibly owed money to Isabel’s family.

The 6-year-old girl was last seen in her bedroom around 11 p.m. on April 20 and was discovered missing around 8 a.m. the next day.

In regards to the “apparent blood,” the records say it was in photos taken in the home during the investigation. But the documents reportedly didn't specify which room the photos were taken in.

ABC News, however, reported that it may have been Isabel’s bedroom based on a blueprint of the house.

ABC News also said that in a police document, a witness claimed that “a guy staying with the family owed them a lot of money and that’s why she was taken.”

Multiple officers also noticed footprints on a utility box behind the home, which could have been used to hop over the wall surrounding the Celis home, according to ABC News.


Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...ew-details-in-isabel-celis-case#ixzz1vtPES4Sc

BBM

Then the family knows this guy and I'd assume so does LE...if he owed the family money did he think by taking Isabel the family would not seek to be paid back...or that LE would not be called in?

This doesn't look good for Isabel...I certainly hope she is alive and well but something is rotten....

Maybe the guy is saying he will bring her back if they forgive his debt to them?? How did this person know this detail, or is this just his theory?
So the blood was found in the home. Why did they earlier say that it was in an undisclosed residence? Or was that the reporter's words because LE didn't say where it was found?
I think we're getting close to some answers, at least I pray so.

 

[liz b.]

I understand and respect your opinion. I just happen to disagree. If there is something wrong in that home, from all I have read, they are a typical family with 3 children doing what they think is best for them. Parents with degreed jobs, children in sports and other activities. I guess I need to start investigating my own children and their families. Not arguing with you, I just don't see anything to indicate something wrong. jmo

Father being separated from the two boys at the "suggestion " of CPS = something wrong.

Previous CS involvement = something wrong.

Previous calls to LE = something wrong.

JMO

 

[mck16]

I agree that LE does know by now whether they are living above their means, but we don't!!! That's why we're reading the docs, trying to figure it out.

I agree with Eileen that people can be underwater and in debt but not appear to be living "above their means."

Where are the docs. Have the published them yet. Do you have a link so I can read them. tia

 

[Lark2]

Then what do these people you know have to show for all these bills? Where is that money going? I'm not being snarky, just curious.
There may be people who owe a lot of medical bills, and paying them off with credit cards. Or people who regularly draw out cash to pay drug dealers, or maybe gamble with. I can't think of any other reasons for someone having tons of debt without something to show for it. Boats, new cars, fancy clothes, jewelry.... something. LE would be able to get access to their bank records, also credit card bills and other expenses, so when they state they did not appear to be living beyond their means, I take that to mean they were not spending huge amounts of money and didn't own luxury items and were not racking up credit card bills for thousands of dollars every week. If someone owes a lot of money, that money has to be going somewhere, it doesn't just disintergrate, unless a person has been a victim of identity theft, of course.

Ok, I can speak to this. Once a debt snowball starts rolling, it can become insurmountable very very quicly. If this family refinanced the house or took a second mortgage or had an interest rate reset to a much higher rate, and then missed one of two credit card payments and then had those rates reset to 24% etc etc, then it is very very easy for debt to snowball out of control, fuled almost entirely by interest rates. I've known a ton of people who played this game and lost, some who even took high-interest loans from one area to pay for something in another area, etc etc. I just had a close friend who makes a good living lose at this risky game. He lost his house and had to declare bankruptcy.

 

[impatientredhead]

ITA. from the 911:

911 Operator: "Why do you think she was abducted?
Sergio Celis: "I have no idea. We woke up this morning and went to go get her up, start her baseball game, and she's gone. I woke up my sons, I, we looked everywhere in the house, and my oldest son noticed that her window was wide open and the screen was laying in the backyard. We've looked all around the house."

from last night, bbm:
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_91fee6b2-df37-5c40-bc2a-20e15fe69299.html

"One officer reported that a resident on East 13th Street said she heard a "dog going crazy barking" at a house on East Cooper Street at about 2 a.m. April 21.
She also reported that around 8 a.m., she encountered one of Isabel's brothers walking toward an LA Fitness on Wilmot Road. She said the boy told her that he was looking for his missing sister and that he was crying."

the distance between the house and l.a. fitness is 1.13 miles...but by foot, all you do is cross the mall parking lot.
how the heck did sergio wake up the kids at 8am and at the same time or minutes later the older one walked a mile away?

i'm not sleuthing a minor. just trying to put together some sense of a timeline which is proving futile. :banghead: (my head, my wall, my frustration, not intended for any other poster).

I find it very odd that so much info is given about waking the sons up to look for her and that it was the son that made the realization that the window was wide open and the screen was out. It just doesn't feel natural to me.

As a parent realizing that your daughter is missing, her window being wide open would be pretty hard to miss. I notice things like temperature and smell when a window is open that is not normally open, and that is without my daughter being missing.

When I couldn't find my elderly German Shepherd early early one morning (I was getting a glass of water and he was not where he would be expected to be sleeping, very much a creature of habit and his absence was immediately noticed at 4am) but I didn't wake anyone up to look for him, me calling for him in a slight panic at an ungodly hour woke everyone up. If one of my windows was open and the screen was out I surely would have noticed that detail.

Seems to me there is too much detail and displaced responsibility in the initial description of her absence being discovered.

 

[mck16]

Father being separated from the two boys at the "suggestion " of CPS = something wrong.

Previous CS involvement = something wrong.

Previous calls to LE = something wrong.

JMO

My dil was out of town and my son was caring for the children. 6 and 18 months. He took the infant to daycare one morning and he did not change his shirt from the one he had on the day before. They called CPS and reported this. Now, it was ridiculous and they later admitted that, but they have to follow up regardless. So the first two you named could be for Any reason and totally unrelated.

I have not heard of previous calls to LE. What is this referring to? tia

 

[liz b.]

Didn't JM stay with the Celis family at one point ? Could he be the one who owes them money ? How would this play into Isabel's disappearance ?

JMO

 

[insatiable]

I still believe the uncle is involved some how in all of this.

 

[Prof]

ABC News: Police documents show new details in Isabel Celis case


Posted: 6:20 AM
Last Updated: 31 minutes ago


•original quotation snipped for to include what was bolded only.... ABC News also said that in a police document, a witness claimed that “a guy staying with the family owed them a lot of money and that’s why she was taken.”

Multiple officers also noticed footprints on a utility box behind the home, which could have been used to hop over the wall surrounding the Celis home, according to ABC News.


Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...ew-details-in-isabel-celis-case#ixzz1vtPES4Sc

BBM

Then the family knows this guy and I'd assume so does LE...if he owed the family money did he think by taking Isabel the family would not seek to be paid back...or that LE would not be called in?

This doesn't look good for Isabel...I certainly hope she is alive and well but something is rotten....

Just bouncing off the quotation by ABC
The police have had over 1000 tips in this case, and this rumor about a guy living there has been all over the internet for weeks.

Lt. Pacheco stated in a presser transcribed here on May 5th that many rumors on the internet were called in as tips. The vast majority are not good leads, but they have to follow up on all. A large amount of false leads are speculations based on rumors from social media.


IMO this is one of those rumors.
There are no public records that show anyone else living there, and no named sources that I have seen.

 

[Lark2]

My dil was out of town and my son was caring for the children. 6 and 18 months. He took the infant to daycare one morning and he did not change his shirt from the one he had on the day before. They called CPS and reported this. Now, it was ridiculous and they later admitted that, but they have to follow up regardless. So the first two you named could be for Any reason and totally unrelated.

I have not heard of previous calls to LE. What is this referring to? tia

Well, following that call to CPS, your son wasn't banned from having contact with his children, was he??

LE said in a press conference two weeks ago that there have been other calls to the house, non-CPS related.

 

[mck16]

Didn't JM stay with the Celis family at one point ? Could he be the one who owes them money ? How would this play into Isabel's disappearance ?

JMO

I think so, and he has been noticeably out of the picture at least as far as I have seen. jmo

 

[liz b.]

My dil was out of town and my son was caring for the children. 6 and 18 months. He took the infant to daycare one morning and he did not change his shirt from the one he had on the day before. They called CPS and reported this. Now, it was ridiculous and they later admitted that, but they have to follow up regardless. So the first two you named could be for Any reason and totally unrelated.

I have not heard of previous calls to LE. What is this referring to? tia

There was an actual visit from CPS in December. This is very different from a routine follow up. MOO And separating SC from the two boys after their sister has disappeared from the home is HUGE. MOO

LE stated that they had had some calls from the address in the past. It was discussed. A lot... MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

ABC News: Police documents show new details in Isabel Celis case


Posted: 6:20 AM
Last Updated: 31 minutes ago


•By: Erisa Nakano
TUCSON, AZ - Police documents just released detail new information in the case of missing Isabel Celis of Tucson.

According to an ABC News report Friday on Good Morning America, more than 500 pages of police records go over “apparent blood” found during the investigation and a person who possibly owed money to Isabel’s family.

The 6-year-old girl was last seen in her bedroom around 11 p.m. on April 20 and was discovered missing around 8 a.m. the next day.

In regards to the “apparent blood,” the records say it was in photos taken in the home during the investigation. But the documents reportedly didn't specify which room the photos were taken in.

ABC News, however, reported that it may have been Isabel’s bedroom based on a blueprint of the house.

ABC News also said that in a police document, a witness claimed that “a guy staying with the family owed them a lot of money and that’s why she was taken.”

Multiple officers also noticed footprints on a utility box behind the home, which could have been used to hop over the wall surrounding the Celis home, according to ABC News.


Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...ew-details-in-isabel-celis-case#ixzz1vtPES4Sc

BBM

Then the family knows this guy and I'd assume so does LE...if he owed the family money did he think by taking Isabel the family would not seek to be paid back...or that LE would not be called in?

This doesn't look good for Isabel...I certainly hope she is alive and well but something is rotten....

The only problem I have is the guy staying with them supposedly owing them money is .................LE would be on that guy like white on rice from the very beginning and asking for DNA.samples or shoe impressions, SW on where he is staying, and even asking him to give his fingerprints to see if they matched the one of the window sill.

So imo, this did not pan out for LE either.

IMO

 

[Lark2]

The police have had over 1000 tips in this case, and this rumor about a guy living there has been all over the internet for weeks.

Lt. Pacheco stated in a presser transcribed here on May 5th that many rumors on the internet were called in as tips. The vast majority are not good leads, but they have to follow up on all. A large amount of false leads are speculations based on rumors from social media.

IMO this is one of those rumors. I personally have seen it grow on the internet from the first couple of days.

There are no public records that show anyone else living there, and no named sources.

I totally put my faith in this "rumor." It has been reported in MSM and furthermore, it makes sense. Why WOULDN'T the family let a relative new to the area stay for a while?

JM, the houseguest in question, clearly interacted with the family. He is seen with the Celis kids on his FB page, and his vehicle is parked out front of their home in one shot.

Also important to note is that in the recent document release, LE reportedly searched an uncle's truck. It's my opionion that this was JM's vehicle.

I'd bet money that he is on LE's radar.

 

[Patty G]

IIRC, there were "assumptions" that he lived there, but no one has shown proof that he did live there. Although there are photos of JM's Jeep in front of the Celis' home, but that, IMO, is not proof that he lived there.

JM is not Isa's uncle; he is her cousin.

All family members and extended family members have been missing from the public eye. RC brother (Isa's Uncle) was interviewed on Jane's show, and he has not been in front of the camera after that.

 

[Lark2]

The only problem I have is the guy staying with them supposedly owing them money is .................LE would be on that guy like white on rice from the very beginning and asking for DNA.samples or shoe impressions, SW on where he is staying, and even asking him to give his fingerprints to see if they matched the one of the window sill.

So imo, this did not pan out for LE either.

IMO

They searched an uncle's truck, according to the docs. Maybe they did investigate this further and they are holding back those docs.