AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #21

[SmoothOperator]

Someone asked why the man who claims to have been misquoted would have signed the statement if it was that far off base. I only asked if someone could provide the page and packet numbers, or just verify that they had seen the witness' signature on his statement. IF he signed it, I agree that he is "back-pedaling." If only the officer signed it, then I can't be sure he (MT) saw it after it was prepared, prior to it being released to the world.

I can find zero evidence that any single one of these hundreds of reports have been signed by the person who gave the tip, statement, report, or interview to LE.. In fact Tronziger's words lead me to believe the exact opposite in that they were not at all contacted and brought in to review the summary of their statements.. And certainly were not ever asked to sign to their accuracy.. He states that upon his observing that the officer with whom he had the formal interview DID NOT AT ANY TIME RECORD OR EVEN WRITE DOWN A SINGLE NOTE OF ANYTHING THAT TRONZIGER STATED IN THE INTERVIEW.. He said that he felt due to there not being a recording or notes to reference back to that at the time that a/the officer filled out the summary sheet that he was obviously incorrectly recalling Mark's statements.. He did not ever accuse LE of nefariously or with motive purposely lie, change, or totally misconstrue his words but rather that he felt that due to the fact that they'd chosen to in no way document through writing or recording his statements at the time they were made.. Due to that whenever the officer did fill out the sheet that his recall was very incorrect..

His making such statements IMO clearly represents that he was not given the opportunity to review the summary of his interview and certainly wasnt asked and did not sign his name to that summary of events.. Moo is that no, absolutely not in the specific cases of the documents that have been released to the public.. That for whatever reasons these summaries were not in any way, shape, or form given to the individual to review and sign as an acknowledgement that the summary is a correct and accurate representation of the statements they had given LE..

There are IMO several other indicators sprinkled throughout the hundreds of pages of PDF that IMO lend credence to their at no point asking the individual to review and sign as a way of acknowledging the info and statements are their own personal statements and accounts that they gave LE.. There are also statements made that several of these summary reports were done AFTER-THE-FACT.. As an afterthought.. An officer bringing up to one of his superiors a statement he was told earlier or an observation they had made at any earlier time or place.. Etc..etc.. Several different instances that IMO clearly show that the summary document was done at a later time and place..IMO therefor no signature was asked for on those docs either..

Another detail that also lends credence to it being fact that they were not asked to sign as an acknowledgement of the summaries accuracy is that it is these same exact summaries and docs that are completed and filed right along with all the other similar docs in these PDFs such as people who called in to LE, some from out of the area, and even out of the state.. At some point those call ins too were written up as summary reports and IMO obviously were in no way, shape, or form given to the individual to review and sign acknowledging that the summary is correct or accurate..

IMO its very obvious that the individuals who had summary reports made and filed from their statements, reports, tips to LE were at no time ever given the opportunity to review the summary for accuracy and sign acknowledging the summary is correct.. For whatever reasons that was not the procedure that was followed for these particular summary of events documents that we are now reviewing.. IMO it once again goes to show that there is very good reason(and IMO a necessity) for why such SOP are in place such as recording(preferably audio but at the very least written notes of documentation) in some capacity of the formal interviews done with all subjects in an abduction/homicide case.. As well as it is a necessity to then have that individual review the summary once filled out on the official document and have their signature as validation to their agreeing to that summary being truthful, factual, accurate, and correctly construing of their words stated to the officers in the formal interview.. Again IMO IT IS A NECESSITY AND IT IS VERY MUCH THE REASON THAT IT IS SOP FOR THESE TYPE INTERVIEWS IN THESE TYPE CASES..

If they had followed such there would be no room for such egregious blunders that we now are witnessing in TRONZIGER coming forward(and IMO rightly so) to correct what was caused strictly by absolutely unnecessary negligence on the part of how these officers chose to document(or in this case chose specifically NOT TO DOCUMENT) and handle a major, major nationally media covered case of an abduction and quite likely homicide case..

Absolutely unnecessary and IMO I believe that this choice/decision to NOT have the summaries reviewed and signed won't happen again at this particular department..disgustingly easily avoidable!!:banghead:


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Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[Shelby2]

Shelby, thanks, do you remember if you posted about the area when I asked right after the presser? I am trying to find the date of that presser specifically...

Anyone?
LE discussed how they were going to focus on a certain neighborhood to go back through in a presser. Dr. Know? Galiuro? Anita? Pieper?

Prof, I searched my posts and I am pretty sure the date of that PC was 5/21. I'm catching up so apologies if this was already answered.

 

[Prof]

He sounds like a definite creeper. Especially if all these "white T-shirt" guys are all the same. I am inclined to think it is. What are the chances of 3 guys in the same area doing weird things and dressed pretty much identical.

Different witnesses, different reports, continuing the direction of the dog hit outside the home, and very close to the time Isa disappeared...

 

[spoiledmom]

I don't think anyone wiped down the surfaces. Did I miss something? It just said there were no latent prints. I was making a joke about the perp OCD cleaning and I'm sorry if I mislead you.

Well if they really only found one print, I find it very odd and it would seem that someone did wipe it down. Why would there only be one print? I assume that there would be several unless someone wiped it down and missed a spot.

 

[LisaB]

You're right. A latent fingerprint is not seen without the help of fingerprint "dust." (or other methods) It is strange that there are no fingerprints on her toyshelf, the dresser and places where there SHOULD be prints but there is a print on the screen and the window sill.

To me it seems like more staging. JMO

Sounds like staging by someone who has no business in their home. If it was a family member,they would have no reason to (and every reason not to) wipe away prints from these surfaces. If it was anyone who had ever been known to have been in her room, either a painter or an electrician, or relative would have been able to explain his or her prints in the room. They would know that wiping away ALL prints would be a terrible idea since there was no reason for their own to raise suspicion. It has to be someone that had no reason to be in Isabel's home at ANY time (unless, like the dishes in the kitchen, someone did a quickie clean-up job in Isa's room before LE arrived).

 

[mamamia54]

Well if they really only found one print, I find it very odd and it would seem that someone did wipe it down. Why would there only be one print? I assume that there would be several unless someone wiped it down and missed a spot.

Are we certain that only one print was found inside the room though. Family members prints would be there, and would be ruled out.

 

[time]

Yes, I notice that. I want a pic lol dig up any?

Perhaps! Look up a post or two and see what you think

 

[carole]

No! I was agreeing that it was odd there were no LATENT prints! There should have been. It is a child's room and there should be prints galore.

And if there were not, it would mean that a perp wiped down the room to hide prints that they didn't want found.

I just meant that a stranger abductor probably would have worn gloves and not worried about wiping down prints.

But an inside job done in a more panicked mode may have thought that wiping everything down was a good way to cover adequately.

Sorry if you thought I was challenging. i was agreeing!

I agree, there should be hundreds of latent/invisible fingerprints on a child's bookshelf, books, etc. How could there not be???

 

[Jules71]

On April 21st LE went to the apt of two of RC's brothers, checked it and interviewed three of the brothers and her father in the apt, on E Lakeside Parkway. Two days later her brother RR's truck was taken at night with a search warrant to police evidence. Also on 4 23 they were checking traffic cameras for Isa in a vehicle for as early as 9pm April 20th to 10am April 21st. So it seems like the last time she was seen by anyone other than family was 9pm that night at the ballpark.

Maybe they wanted to confirm the family's account of leaving the ball field. The time they left and if they were all together.

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[LisaB]

I think a lot of people have the "Nothing bad will happen to me or my family." Daily I am amazed at some of my neighbors, and my daughter's neighbors as well - allowing LITTLE children, 1-5 years old, to ride Big Wheels and play in the middle of the street - with little to no supervision. Other neighbors get so fearful, and annoyed that a street that gets a fair amount of traffic is a playground to little kids. Yet, I have watched this for a dozen years and no one has been hurt.

Apparently SC trusts that RSO in his neighborhood. I would be civil, but that would be the extent of it.

The creepy white-shirted guy and the CDs is most interesting to me. I really want to know more about the man/men and who is the renter/owner of the storage unit and its contents!

Did the TPD ever interview Old McDonald in depth?

Was anything besides the CDs found in the storage? And were they CDs or DVDs? I assume they were "homemade" rather than commercial, but if they were amidst other items they seem less sinister than if they were all alone in a storage unit. Why not a safe deposit box?

 

[Jules71]

Also maybe the storage unit belongs to the uncle who had his truck impounded and his cell phone photographed.

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[winterrose]

4/24 LE was back out at the house and I was thinking about the cellphone left in the Lexus, that's RC's car, right? First of all, if it's her regular phone and she's got a child missing, why on earth would it not be on her? So I assume it's an extra phone. So, I wonder why she has an extra phone in her car, it's on the driver's door pocket.

I can think of a number of reasons why, but at least LE got it in the search warrant of the car. I still question how well RC and SC's relationship was before. To me if a wife has an extra phone, it's to contact someone for help, or you don't want your husband to know who you're talking to, maybe he takes the phone in an argument and you need to get away with the kids, etc. It could be SC's car, though and it's just interesting. I can't see it being their main cells.

 

[carole]

Did you back trace the phone number for A

It weirdly is listed also for Redeemer Lutheran Church and Vals Tumble Bus (a Health Club facility on 12th St!) :waitasec:

This may be a different Rumble Bus, but ... (link)

When I put Vals Tumble Bus into the search engine, it comes up with the McD address. The bus travels to different locaations?? Maybe its their business??

I didn't find that number for the church, its website listed other phone numbers and another address.

 

[DhyanaAZ]

How soon before YOU became aware that a child was missing? How did you figure out what was going on? Tia

I actually didn't find out right away. When I saw the road blocks I was curious of course but I was headed to work and heard nothing on the radio news stations. It wasn't until I came home around 12:30 that I saw a huge LE presence and went to ask my neighbor what was going on.

 

[makayla]

I don't believe everyone in the family could be lying about her being at home that night. There are two boys, Rebecca and Sergio. One of them may not be telling the complete truth about what happened once everyone was in bed, however, I don't believe all of them (especially the boys) could take part in a cover up.

MOO

BBM . . . I don't think they all were covering up either, and I am leaning towards them returning from the ballpark and something happening after 11 p.m. - I don't want to assume too much, so I'm open to any other timeline windows.

However, I would be surprised if someone in that family is not connected to Isabel's disappearance, and if I am wrong, I won't eat crow, but I will apologize. :smile:

 

[mamamia54]

When I put Vals Tumble Bus into the search engine, it comes up with the McD address. The bus travels to different locaations?? Maybe its their business??

I didn't find that number for the church, its website listed other phone numbers and another address.

And there was a report I believe that a young boy walked up to a LE member telling him to check on the Trumble Bus, because he went to Mexico on it before.

 

[spoiledmom]

Are we certain that only one print was found inside the room though. Family members prints would be there, and would be ruled out.

I have no idea about the inside of the room. I was talking about the outside. Where they reported to find a print. I would think that there would be several even if it is outside. My kids put their hands all over the windows when they are outside. We rarely clean the outside of our bedroom windows.

 

[time]

When I put Vals Tumble Bus into the search engine, it comes up with the McD address. The bus travels to different locaations?? Maybe its their business??

I didn't find that number for the church, its website listed other phone numbers and another address.

The church could be a mistake! If the # is put in search engine it does come up

 

[time]

And there was a report I believe that a young boy walked up to a LE member telling him to check on the Trumble Bus, because he went to Mexico on it before.

Ok, that is weird.

 

[spoiledmom]

BBM . . . I don't think they all were covering up either, and I am leaning towards them returning from the ballpark and something happening after 11 p.m. - I don't want to assume too much, so I'm open to any other timeline windows.

However, I would be surprised if someone in that family is not connected to Isabel's disappearance, and if I am wrong, I won't eat crow, but I will apologize. :smile:

I will be eating crow right beside you and apologizing. I don't think I will be eating crow alone though.