AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[iSleuth]

Hence, my semi-rhetorical comment/ question yesterday, did the boys' team (that SC coached) WIN that fateful night. Or, in other words, what happens when they lose?

Really good question. and now I see your point.

The league win/loss schedule is usually published. do we know the name of the team?

 

[MBK]

Thank you for posting those links!Great interactive timeline.

Looks like IC ( and her brothers) last full day of school was April 17. So she would have probably had half days through out that whole bulky - cleanup week.

oh, I didn't post those links . . some other excellent poster who has his or her act together in the morning much more so than me, did so! (I am just valiantly attempting to get my butt to work, so to speak.)

 

[Donjeta]

Her story never made any sense to me. She clearly says that there were two men talking and she is almost positive they were speaking English which means she could clearly hear them talking and she said they werent talking loud.

So if the dogs were barking like crazy how in the world was she able to ascertain it was two men who were not talking loudly and speaking English?

IMO

Even if you don't hear the words it's possible to tell English and Spanish apart from the intonation and the prosody and pronunciation of some sounds, IMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank-you for the welcome.Yes,rumors are everywhere.I do not believe that we have seen any evidence,period.I believe that the "document dump"was just that,a list of elimination of tips.The evidence has been withheld at this point.Not too many people would come forward at this point and say that they had seen SC be violent or abusive,and yet did nothing about it.Many,many violent people are known as "pillars of the community."again just my opinion.

Good morning!

I really think they would. In cases like this a lot of people will seek out the MS media to tell them something bad on any of the people involved if they know it. Even if they have to do it the cowardly way and do it anonymously so the media can say an 'inside source' told them, yada ..yada ..yada.

Yet that hasnt happened in this case and that is very different because if there are bad things known by someone they start talking about it to the media whether it is in front of the camera or behind the scenes when the reporters' phones start ringing off the hook. The media is always looking for a titilating tidbit.

While that is true that pillars of the community can also be abusive it doesnt mean that everyone who is well thought of by those who know them ...........is abusive. That would be painting everyone with the same wide brush.

There were several things learned in the doc dumps besides witness statements but I do agree it is not the bulk of their investigation. However, imo, I feel they do not have the evidence they need to find the person who kidnapped Isa. Having more doesnt mean they have enough information they need in order to solve the case.

IMO

 

[Donjeta]

I just wonder if somebody said something to CPS.

 

[TxLady2]

Moo as always but IF there was a wipedown of finger prints (which we have nothing official stating it was) ..but if there was a wipedown of prints the objective view would be that it was NOT family wiping down their own prints that had every right in the world to be there.. how that points to an inside job is beyond me?

Exactly... fingerprints from anyone in the family would be easily explained, they would not need to completely erase their own prints.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't really see the point of wiping fingerprints off furniture either way. It would have been a lot easier and less time consuming for a stranger perp to wear gloves and avoid leaving fingerprints. The family could have wiped off fingerprints to cover the fact that there were no outsider fingerprints but that would be kinda pointless since the intruder could have worn gloves.

One reason to wipe out fingerprints would be if there is is someone in the family circle whose fingerprints are connected to another criminal investigation. That person might not have let LE fingerprint himself/herself to rule his/her prints out. His/her fingerprints would be there legitimately because s/he has visited the family or stayed there with permission but if LE put them in the computer they might get an unwanted match.

But it would be awfully hard to get fingerprints off everything, something would be forgotten for sure if the person spent a lot of time there.

 

[TxLady2]

If it was an inside job, and the family member wiped down the prints, my thinking would be that they did it to make it appear that someone wiped off prints. No prints = clean up, as opposed to just family prints (which would indicate no one else was there). So, for the exact reason you state, to make it look like it wasn't someone on the inside.

Which is going to look even more suspicious for the family. Surely they would know that a kidnapper is not going to take the time to wipe down everything in the room. And why would the intruder be touching the dresser, toys, shelves, closet shelves, etc. anyway? Their objective is to grab the child and get the heck out as quickly as they can.
This makes it sound so cold and calculating, like it was planned. I can't even imagine parents thinking about erasing their own prints in their child's room to cover up a murder. Unbelievable.

 

[buggsmom]

Antoher option could be the dresser could have been wiped down/dusted/polished the day or so before and if they are like me, the clothes IC needed were folded in piles...therefore not needing to open a drawer or use the dresser. Maybe they have regular "cleaning days"...dust is an issue for some people (not me, lots of bunnies live here!) JAT & MO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

BBM-I feel the exact opposite. When I donate to a cause I never expect an acknowledgement, nor an accounting. I have faith, that the money is being used in a way that is beneficial to whatever I am contributing to. If it's not, it doesn't negate what my personal intent was when giving. I've donated to the Lindsey Baum and Nancy Moyer funds. Once the check leaves my hands I don't feel compelled to track it. :moo:

That's really very noble of you, Knox, but my DH keeps a file of contributions for income tax purposes

 

[luvmydogs]

Good morning!

I really think they would. In cases like this a lot of people will seek out the MS media to tell them something bad on any of the people involved if they know it. Even if they have to do it the cowardly way and do it anonymously so the media can say an 'inside source' told them, yada ..yada ..yada.

Yet that hasnt happened in this case and that is very different because if there are bad things known by someone they start talking about it to the media whether it is in front of the camera or behind the scenes when the reporters' phones start ringing off the hook. The media is always looking for a titilating tidbit.

While that is true that pillars of the community can also be abusive it doesnt mean that everyone who is well thought of by those who know them ...........is abusive. That would be painting everyone with the same wide brush.

There were several things learned in the doc dumps besides witness statements but I do agree it is not the bulk of their investigation. However, imo, I feel they do not have the evidence they need to find the person who kidnapped Isa. Having more doesnt mean they have enough information they need in order to solve the case.

IMO

It seems to me that they had no close friends. We have heard from the Coach, but he said he never went to their home. He was the person they allowed to speak on their behalf. Sure lots of Becky's coworkers have said great things but no real family friends. I find that strange.

 

[marazul]

It seems to me that they had no close friends. We have heard from the Coach, but he said he never went to their home. He was the person they allowed to speak on their behalf. Sure lots of Becky's coworkers have said great things but no real family friends. I find that strange.

MO is that if they have "close" friends, those friends would be around them more and more likely to follow their lead and requests, which appear to be no or limited media contact. Think if one of your closest friends was in RC's shoes and asked you to keep a low profile, wouldn't you comply, especially if you trusted in her innocence?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Apparent blood on the floor and Isa's dresser doesn't even have a print on it...wiped clean!

So she never got clothes out of her drawers and nothing was put in dresser since ...? last time of it being wiped clean. To me that is very unusual not to find any prints on the dresser. We need to know who cleaned it and wiped every drawer (man, I never do that) and when did they clean it.?

Similarly to the Lisa Irwin case that you've followed religiously, I believe that the time-line in Isabel's disappearance started waayyy before Becky left for work, Sergio got up, discovered his daughter "missing", woke the boys, started searching for Isa, and finally made the 9-1-1 call. Whatever happened to Isabel probably happened late on Friday night or in the wee hours Saturday, and by the time of the 9-1-1 call, the deed was done, and the scene wiped clean. :moo:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It seems to me that they had no close friends. We have heard from the Coach, but he said he never went to their home. He was the person they allowed to speak on their behalf. Sure lots of Becky's coworkers have said great things but no real family friends. I find that strange.

Im not sure if we really know that. They may have real close friends. I dont fault anyone for not speaking out nowadays to the media. If they dare do then they are pelted with harsh criticism too.

The Coach was treated so disrepectfully by Nancy Grace that others dont want to have to go through the same tongue lashing, imo.

But even LE said that the Celis family were a very social family so there would be plenty of people that came in contact with them over the years that would know them well. The neighbors who have spoken out that lived close to Sergio said he was very friendly and helpful if they needed help.

The only family members they may have that live close to them is Sergio's elderly parents. I dont expect them to go through all of the stress just to speak to the media. Becky's brother spoke out but I dont believe he lives in Tuscon but I may be mistaken about that and Sergio's sister spoke out at the vigil.

But that still would not stop others from contacting the media if they really knew something bad about either one of these parents. Mature adults can act like children in cases like this and want to be the one to say "I know! I know!" and will spill the beans.

Hasnt happened in this case and that is very different from most cases like this where parents have a child missing.

IMO

 

[No Stone Unturned]

Man this thread moves fast.

 

[Lava]

Which is going to look even more suspicious for the family. Surely they would know that a kidnapper is not going to take the time to wipe down everything in the room. And why would the intruder be touching the dresser, toys, shelves, closet shelves, etc. anyway? Their objective is to grab the child and get the heck out as quickly as they can.
This makes it sound so cold and calculating, like it was planned. I can't even imagine parents thinking about erasing their own prints in their child's room to cover up a murder. Unbelievable.

I personally can't even imagine a parent killing their own child, but it happens unfortunately. I don't think wiping prints suggest premeditation, but it definitely suggests a cover up.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Similarly to the Lisa Irwin case that you've followed religiously, I believe that the time-line in Isabel's disappearance started waayyy before Becky left for work, Sergio got up, discovered his daughter "missing", woke the boys, started searching for Isa, and finally made the 9-1-1 call. Whatever happened to Isabel probably happened late on Friday night or in the wee hours Saturday, and by the time of the 9-1-1 call, the deed was done, and the scene wiped clean. :moo:

Why would someone living in a home wipe the scene clean? Wasnt a fingerprint found on the window sill? Why would a scent dog sniff the scent sample taken from the window sill and follow it all the way over on Cooper Street?

There are no fingerprints in our home this morning because I just dusted and polished all furniture even all of the wall outlet plates. I also washed down our walls with Odoban to make them clean and fresh and I do this at least once a month.

If something happened to Isa that early then the dogs would have hit on a cadaver scent instead of the scent dog trailing the window sill scent all the way from the home to over on Cooper Street where LE got a SW on that home, imo.

IMO

 

[Taminator]

I personally can't even imagine a parent killing their own child, but it happens unfortunately. I don't think wiping prints suggest premeditation, but it definitely suggests a cover up.

A cover up of what, though?

They live there. Their prints belong there. Why would they need to cover them up?

They wouldn't need to, IMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I personally can't even imagine a parent killing their own child, but it happens unfortunately. I don't think wiping prints suggest premeditation, but it definitely suggests a cover up.

It isnt hard to imagine for me. Parents have been murdering children for centuries and I have seen many cases where it happened but I have also seen horrific cases where the child or children were snatched right from their own bedrooms without a trace of evidence left behind by the stranger prepretrator that he had ever been there.

Cover up what? I honestly dont understand what you mean. There is nothing sinister about finding fingerprints of the people that live inside their own home so why would any of them wipe them away unless Becky had just dusted and cleaned Isa's room?

IMO

 

[Gracelin]

Just dust.. but don't worry about the apparent blood on the floor..