AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[Taminator]

Just dust.. but don't worry about the apparent blood on the floor..

Yeah, that's another thing. They're going to dust the furniture, but not clean up the blood on the floor? It makes no sense. At least, not to me.

JMO, as usual.

 

[Lava]

A cover up of what, though?

They live there. Their prints belong there. Why would they need to cover them up?

They wouldn't need to, IMO.

Because if it wasn't wiped off, and it was just their prints, they might think that it suggests no one else was in the home, just them. But if it was wiped down, they may think it suggests a stranger covering up their tracks.

 

[Lark2]

In cases like this a lot of people will seek out the MS media to tell them something bad on any of the people involved if they know it. Even if they have to do it the cowardly way and do it anonymously so the media can say an 'inside source' told them, yada ..yada ..yada.

Say what? There's nothing cowardly about people wanting to remain anonymous when providing details to MSM (or even LE) about heinous crimes and the people who may be responsible for them. I would certainly want to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation.

 

[Lark2]

Because if it wasn't wiped off, and it was just their prints, they might think that it suggests no one else was in the home, just them. But if it was wiped down, they may think it suggests a stranger covering up their tracks.

Agree! The people who staged the scene are a nurse and a dental tech/opera singer, not career criminals. That's why they're currently under suspicion - because the scene looks so obviously staged!

 

[Lava]

Agree! The people who staged the scene are a nurse and a dental tech/opera singer, not career criminals. That's why they're currently under suspicion - because the scene looks so obviously staged!

BBM - That is the word of the case, IMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Say what? There's nothing cowardly about people wanting to remain anonymous when providing details to MSM (or even LE) about heinous crimes and the people who may be responsible for them. I would certainly want to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation.

BBM

Then you understand why maybe some family members or friends wouldnt want to come forth and speak out publicly for the same reason I have bolded.

But the point is no one has come forth publicly or anonymously about anything bad concerning either of these parents.

IMO

 

[Lark2]

The Coach was treated so disrepectfully by Nancy Grace that others dont want to have to go through the same tongue lashing, imo.

Disagree that he got a tongue lashing, and in addition, he agreed to go on her show. NG is a known pitbull.

The only family members they may have that live close to them is Sergio's elderly parents.

Holy guacamole, they've got a TON of relatives in Tuscon, half of them showed up at the house that morning.

 

[Lark2]

BBM
But the point is no one has come forth publicly or anonymously about anything bad concerning either of these parents.
IMO

IMO, people have come forward with less than positive information to LE and even MSM. If it's salacious, the latter probably referred it to LE. That's probably why there's so many "rumors" swirling. Much of this can't be confirmed as the investigation is still active.

Also, let's not forget that LE themselves stated that the perp)s) did an adequate job of essentially cleaning up the scene.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Agree! The people who staged the scene are a nurse and a dental tech/opera singer, not career criminals. That's why they're currently under suspicion - because the scene looks so obviously staged!

How do we know the scene was staged?

Do you believe all cases where a child has been kidnapped from their bedroom the adults stage the scene and tries to erase the perpretrators prints there for them?

Do you think the Lunsfords, Van Dams, Smarts, Greones, wiped the crime scene down for the perp because nothing was found in the homes that tied the pedophiles to ever being inside the homes?

Those werent staged crime scenes...so how can you be so certain this one is?

Mitchell removed a screen and went in through a window to gain access to Elizabeth Smart...so what is the difference? No fingerprints of his was found either not even one fingerprint on the window sill yet he was in that home and kidnapped ES for many many months to torture and rape.

IMO

 

[Prof]

No latent prints found in areas does not equate to evidence of staging or wiping clean for me.

The negative results could simply mean that only smudges were found, no prints could be lifted. IMO no latent prints found on toy shelf, books, dresser could be due to normal cleaning, or possibly an environment (extreme heat for one example) that does not allow for lasting latents. As far as the point that even Isa's prints were not found, children's latents have a very short life span according to most searchable sources.

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/443195-5WENSh/webviewable/443195.pdf

Report from doc dump

attached again

 

[Lava]

How do we know the scene was staged?

Do you believe all cases where a child has been kidnapped from their bedroom the adults stage the scene and tries to erase the perpretrators prints there for them?

Do you think the Lunsfords, Van Dams, Smarts, Greones, wiped the crime scene down for the perp because nothing was found in the homes that tied the pedophiles to ever being inside the homes?

Those werent staged crime scenes...so how can you be so certain this one is?

Mitchell removed a screen and went in through a window to gain access to Elizabeth Smart...so what is the difference? No fingerprints of his was found either not even one fingerprint on the window sill yet he was in that home and kidnapped ES for many many months to torture and rape.

IMO

I have a question about these cases. Were the family's fingerprints found, or was there just an absence of a strangers fingerprints. Huge difference if the family's finger prints were found. Because that is the crux of the issues right there. A stranger breaking into the house would take precautions such a gloves to prevent their fingerprints from getting anywhere in the first place...not take extra time to wipe down furniture.

 

[Taminator]

I just want to make sure I have this right.

They cleaned the dust off the dresser, but neglected to clean the (apparent) blood on the floor AND the window sill? How did the unknown print get on the window sill?

 

[Lark2]

How do we know the scene was staged?

Do you believe all cases where a child has been kidnapped from their bedroom the adults stage the scene and tries to erase the perpretrators prints there for them?

Do you think the Lunsfords, Van Dams, Smarts, Greones, wiped the crime scene down for the perp because nothing was found in the homes that tied the pedophiles to ever being inside the homes?

Those werent staged crime scenes...so how can you be so certain this one is?

Mitchell removed a screen and went in through a window to gain access to Elizabeth Smart...so what is the difference? No fingerprints of his was found either not even one fingerprint on the window sill yet he was in that home and kidnapped ES for many many months to torture and rape.

IMO

You are listing cases where the parents were not involved in their child's disappearance.

Obviously, I think the scene was staged by the parents because the parents ARE responsible for Isabel's disappearance.

Apparently, LE has suspcions about them too because they're still not cleared as suspsects and the dad cannot have any contact with his kids.

I dread even writing the last part for fear of getting the "lots of parents were not cleared" refrain. Can we just stay focused on this case????

 

[liz b.]

Why would someone living in a home wipe the scene clean? Wasnt a fingerprint found on the window sill? Why would a scent dog sniff the scent sample taken from the window sill and follow it all the way over on Cooper Street?

There are no fingerprints in our home this morning because I just dusted and polished all furniture even all of the wall outlet plates. I also washed down our walls with Odoban to make them clean and fresh and I do this at least once a month.

If something happened to Isa that early then the dogs would have hit on a cadaver scent instead of the scent dog trailing the window sill scent all the way from the home to over on Cooper Street where LE got a SW on that home, imo.

IMO

IIRC, there was ONE "foreign" print on the outside of that window frame...so, how did a "stranger " take the screen off the window frame...?

JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO, people have come forward with less than positive information to LE and even MSM. If it's salacious, the latter probably referred it to LE. That's probably why there's so many "rumors" swirling. Much of this can't be confirmed as the investigation is still active.

Also, let's not forget that LE themselves stated that the perp)s) did an adequate job of essentially cleaning up the scene.

If it is salacious the media cant wait to report on it. Ask any reporter if they get numerous calls on family members involved in a situation like this. Imo. they will tell you 'yes' and the media isnt shy about releasing disparaging info either. They are about ratings and what gets the viewers/readers attention and salacious always sells.

Oh I dont think that is the reason. Rumors fly in every case that comes to light. Everyone has their own theories and gossips and starts rumor mills. Just the way it goes. They even do it locally here when a case hasnt been solved or even before a trial and usually the rumor and gossip heard for months is nothing like the evidence entered at trial.

Yes, they did say that, but LE could have also said the same thing in other kidnapping cases where the stranger pedophile didnt leave any evidence behind connecting him to the crime.

IMO

 

[Lava]

I just want to make sure I have this right.

They cleaned the dust off the dresser, but neglected to clean the (apparent) blood on the floor AND the window sill? How did the unknown print get on the window sill?

If it was a tiny amount of blood they may not have even known it was there. People make mistakes...that is how crimes are solved.

 

[laniefi]

Because if it wasn't wiped off, and it was just their prints, they might think that it suggests no one else was in the home, just them. But if it was wiped down, they may think it suggests a stranger covering up their tracks.

Do you really believe a stranger would break into a home kidnap/subdue/restrain a child and then TAKE TIME TO WIPE DOWN ALL THE SURFACES?

 

[Lava]

Do you really believe a stranger would break into a home kidnap/subdue/restrain a child and then TAKE TIME TO WIPE DOWN ALL THE SURFACES?

EXACTLY!!!! A stranger WOULD NOT do that! But someone in the house who may not be thinking clearly because something horrible just happened may think they need to make it look like someone else did this.

 

[Lark2]

If it is salacious the media cant wait to report on it. Ask any reporter if they get numerous calls on family members involved in a situation like this. Imo. they will tell you 'yes' and the media isnt shy about releasing disparaging info either. They are about ratings and what gets the viewers/readers attention and salacious always sells.
IMO

There are reporters on this thread (GUT, among others) and I used to work in the field, and I can assure you that "tips" that allege criminal and especially sexually criminal behaviour do not get printed or broadcast by the media, they get referred to LE. The law regarding libel/slander/defamation is clear cut in cases like this that involve people who are not public figures and who have not even been "named" as suspects.

What people say on blogs or forums or social media is another matter.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IIRC, there was ONE "foreign" print on the outside of that window frame...so, how did a "stranger " take the screen off the window frame...?

JMO

I really cant answer that question since I have not seen the window frame and wasnt there. May have taken his gloves off for a second.

At least in this case they have more than they did in other cases where a child was kidnapped from their bedroom. In most of those case they didnt even have one fingerprint..........they had nothing showing them who had entered those homes and kidnapped the child or children.

The dog did alert and followed the scent taken from the window sill over to Cooper Street. In other cases the dogs did not trail the perpretrator's route when leaving the home with the child. If they had in the Lunsford case they would have immediately track the unfamilar scent to right across the street where Jessica was being held and tortured for three days until he buried her alive with LE all in the area.

So, imo, they have more to work with in this case than LE did in other similiar cases.

IMO