AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

[iSleuth]

Could they have been pushing the button to close the garage door?

Was this when they brought the family in to question them in the home again?

I would like to view this footage, if you can remember anything else.
I am looking while I ask...

@ 4:36 on the clip: Isabel Celis: 5/10/12 - YouTube

 

[Prof]

They took the family back into the home for questioning on May 2 (day 12).

 

[winterrose]

The layout of the house again at 1:44...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tZz0G1CnlQg#!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

IMO -either LE knows exactly what happened or Isabels case is becoming a cold case fast.

Still sayin my prayers, Isabel!

I feel more confident about a resolution in Isabel's disappearance than I have in many other missing persons cases that I've followed. I think that TDP and other agencies who are assisting have done a deliberate, methodical, and thorough investigation and that there will eventually be an arrest/s in the disappearance of Isabel Celis. Until I have reason to believe otherwise, I continue to hold out hope that this case will be solved and that there will be justice for Isabel. Perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part because I simply do not want to see yet another missing person case grow cold, these individuals never located or their remains recovered, families never knowing what happened to their loved ones, and those responsible in the disappearances or deaths never brought to justice. :moo:

 

[Mjskit]

This may seem like a silly question but I have to askit. What is needed for an arrest and conviction? I know people will say EVIDENCE but exactly what kind of evidence?

It seems some people are tried and convicted on circumstantial evidence or the testimony of a witness and others are acquitted when there is tons of evidence. Does it vary by jurisdiction? If the crime is murder, why are some cases prosecuted without a body and other never even an arrest because there is no body?

 

[time]

This may seem like a silly question but I have to askit. What is needed for an arrest and conviction? I know people will say EVIDENCE but exactly what kind of evidence?

It seems some people are tried and convicted on circumstantial evidence or the testimony of a witness and others are acquitted when there is tons of evidence. Does it vary by jurisdiction? If the crime is murder, why are some cases prosecuted without a body and other never even an arrest because there is no body?

I think the decision mostly lies with the prosecutor's office. Sometimes they go ahead and try to convict without as much info because they are convinced themselves that their suspect is guilty (or maybe they feel pushed to close a case?). I think in general, they attempt to convict one when they think a jury will possibly see it as beyond reasonable doubt. Having a body certainly makes that more likely or if there is enough blood or something from the victim to they could not be alive. There are quite a few cases where a conviction has been sought without a body and there are strong circumstantial cases. I think in some case without a body, they are never prosecuted because the evidence may not support that a homicide was committed or not.

 

[white rabbit]

"Rodriguez was glued to his binoculars trying to see what was going on at the scene.
He lives in Douglas and made the trip to Tucson as soon as his daughter called him with news that little Isabel went missing."

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/missing-g...ors-speak-out/

"Rebecca said she also called her parents that were in Douglas and told them to come home but did not tell them why"

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22664&d=1338078638

well, someone's story isn't straight.

and jules71, i'm still bothered by the fact that RR said it was HR's truck. if it was his father's truck, it wasn't in Tucson that morning and gave the TPD no reason whatsoever to get a signed search warrant. right?

 

[Prof]

"Rodriguez was glued to his binoculars trying to see what was going on at the scene.
He lives in Douglas and made the trip to Tucson as soon as his daughter called him with news that little Isabel went missing."

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/missing-g...ors-speak-out/

"Rebecca said she also called her parents that were in Douglas and told them to come home but did not tell them why"

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22664&d=1338078638

well, someone's story isn't straight.

and jules71, i'm still bothered by the fact that RR said it was HR's truck. if it was his father's truck, it wasn't in Tucson that morning and gave the TPD no reason whatsoever to get a signed search warrant. right?

I personally would not take a media paraphrase from a family member as a statement. He spoke in Spanish to another reporter.
I personally would not take that as evidence of any stories not straight.

I have not seen any statements by RR. I have not seen any reports or news stories. Does anyone have a link to these RR statements?

 

[white rabbit]

I personally would not take a media paraphrase from a family member as a statement. He spoke in Spanish to another reporter.
I personally would not take that as evidence of any stories not straight.

I have not seen any statements by RR. I have not seen any reports or news stories. Does anyone have a link to these RR statements?

both were from the doc dumps...police reports. the first link simply had the pdf in an easy-to-read form.

neither were media-paraphrased. i copied & pasted the exact words from the TPD officer assigned to that particular task & date.

 

[Gracelin]

AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 Media & Doc Dump (No Discussion) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

See post # 4 RR lives in Tucson.

 

[Gracelin]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173546&page=3

Post 75 RR took the dog.What happened to the other dogs??

 

[pieper4]

Yes, RR lives in Tucson. I think the question is who had the truck that is co-titled to RR/HR. But I could be mis-reading. LOL.

Also, re: garage door. The remote controllers for many newer automatic garage doors are about the size of a large car alarm remote carried on a keychain. Outdoor keypads are not recommended for multiple reasons. Not that it has necessary value in the upthread discussion. Just throwing it out there.

 

[Prof]

both were from the doc dumps...police reports. the first link simply had the pdf in an easy-to-read form.

neither were media-paraphrased. i copied & pasted the exact words from the TPD officer assigned to that particular task & date.

:waitasec:

Your post provided the media link under this quotation:

"Rodriguez was glued to his binoculars trying to see what was going on at the scene.
He lives in Douglas and made the trip to Tucson as soon as his daughter called him with news that little Isabel went missing."

I was calling this media paraphrase of what HR said.

The exact quotation can be found in an April 22 news article here
http://www.tucsoncentral.com/tucson...mily-and-neighbors-speak-out-kvoa-tucson-news
and in the media here
http://www.kvoa.com/videos/missing-girl-s-family-and-neighbors-speak-out/

In the above video it shows HR speaking in Spanish.

Are you saying that this media quote is in the police reports?

Would you mind pointing me to the report? PDF and page number?

I was making a comment about the above quotation in the post. The above quotation is found in the article I linked above dated 4/22/12.

 

[Prof]

The police reports do state that RR came to the neighborhood when famiy members told him that HR's truck was going to be impounded. Page 37 PDF 4
Evidently this happened on April 24th, not April 21st when Isa went missing. I think this is important to note, especially when trying to compare stories...

On page 33 of the same PDF doc dump a report notes that this day of impounding HR's truck was on 4/24 (three days after Isa' went missing.)

 

[TxLady2]

This may seem like a silly question but I have to askit. What is needed for an arrest and conviction? I know people will say EVIDENCE but exactly what kind of evidence?

It seems some people are tried and convicted on circumstantial evidence or the testimony of a witness and others are acquitted when there is tons of evidence. Does it vary by jurisdiction? If the crime is murder, why are some cases prosecuted without a body and other never even an arrest because there is no body?

In this case, IMO, they are going to need some proof that she is either alive or dead. Unless they know a lot more than it looks to be right now, I don't think they can prove either one.

It does depend on the jurisdiction, but most DA's won't bring a case to court or even before a grand jury unless they believe they have enough evidence to get a conviction.

In most no-body cases, they need a strong indication that the person is dead AND that the death occurred at the hands of another. If they are going to charge somebody with murder, they need some solid proof that connects that person with the murder. I'm not sure it's anywhere close to that right now. They may have probable cause to arrest, but it takes a lot more than that to bring charges and then take the case to court.

LE and the DA's and the judges all work hand in hand on these cases, and it's usually a joint decision between the three offices.

 

[lonetraveler]

I just had to post this before I implode. I just really, really listened to the 911 call by Sergio and as of this minute I'm officially 'OFF THE FENCE'. This man doesn't even act like a "stranger" reporting a stranger's missing little girl. He doesn't even act like a dispatcher or a police officer or any professional who is trained not to let personal feelings get in the way of investigating a crime. Actually, he acts like he is on a game show, trying to "name that tune". I've got to say that I have never in all my many years heard such "non-emotion or non-caring". Very flippant in his attitude and manner. You would think that he was discussing cutting roses in the garden FGS. There is something very dark here and being hidden in this inner family. There is a "reason" that Isabel had to sleep in her own bed that night, the very night that someone 'decides to steal her away'. Father is the last one according to him to see Isabel, mama went to work that morning without seeing her. Does this sound familiar? Father is not allowed to be around the boys. Mama stopped begging and crying for her daughter and now spends her time defending her husband. He slept on the couch that night, how convenient. IMO, I think I know where this is going.:banghead:

 

[white rabbit]

The police reports do state that RR came to the neighborhood when famiy members told him that HR's truck was going to be impounded. Page 37 PDF 4
Evidently this happened on April 24th, not April 21st when Isa went missing. I think this is important to note, especially when trying to compare stories...

On page 33 of the same PDF doc dump a report notes that this day of impounding HR's truck was on 4/24 (three days after Isa' went missing.)

you are correct about the hr quote...that was MSM, not police reports.

and thank you for confirming it's HR's truck. bbm.

four cars were searched, according to that report. three in the celis's driveway and a silverado that should have been in douglas.

does anyone see what i see??? <modsnip>

TIA...

 

[Jules71]

The police reports mentioned family called RR because they thought officers were impounding "Hector's " truck. We are trying to figure out if it is used by RR or HR since it is registered to both. If it is used by Hector and he lives in Douglas and he did not come to Tucson until after Isa went missing, then what made LE get a warrant for a truck that wasn't even in town at the time. The other thing noted up thread was the differences in stories about Becky calling and telling Hector to come but not telling him why versus him saying he came as soon as he was told Isa was missing.

The real point of the discussion was to figure out if it is in fact Hector's truck or RR's.

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[Gracelin]

Don't leave!
I don't know where you get the truck should have been in Douglas from. RR clearly lives in Tuscon.
I think it's very possible that RR is a key player, He just keeps popping up,over and over again.

 

[Jules71]

Don't leave!
I don't know where you get the truck should have been in Douglas from. RR clearly lives in Tuscon.
I think it's very possible that RR is a key player, He just keeps popping up,over and over again.

See my post above.

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