AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

[Carpe Pacem]

Totally off topic but how damn sexy is it saying "I work at the Hall of Justice" - I would be turned on every time I said it .... please continue.

There are drawbacks:

Leaving one day, I noticed a well-dressed woman on her way to a Sheriff's van, with a deputy actually carrying her handbag. Simultaneous with recognizing her as Betty Broderick (notorious for having murdered her ex-husband and his new wife), she looked me straight in the eyes.

My blood ran cold.
I hope to never again have eye contact with a murderer

 

[tresptip]

My opinion. Since the dad was a coach,its possible one of the parent or relatives of one of the kids he coached didn't like the way their kid was treated so maybe they abducted the little girl.That would explain the girl being quiet when she was abducted because she was familiar with them.
I also think the boys were seperated from their dad for their safety from the people who abducted Isabel and not because they were in danger of their father.

 

[GutFeeling!]

There are drawbacks:

Leaving one day, I noticed a well-dressed woman on her way to a Sheriff's van, with a deputy actually carrying her handbag. Simultaneous with recognizing her as Betty Broderick (notorious for having murdered her ex-husband and his new wife), she looked me straight in the eyes.

My blood ran cold.
I hope to never again have eye contact with a murderer

As a reporter I see murderers often (presently covering Hasan case at Fort Hood) I know that feeling and it never ever goes away. I do have a certain amount of intrigue with these people though. The whole what got them there, how they planned things (if they did) .. what tipped them over the edge.

Murderers I cope with better than child abusers or molesters.

I was being petty about the Hall of Justice thing

 

[GutFeeling!]

My opinion. Since the dad was a coach,its possible one of the parent or relatives of one of the kids he coached didn't like the way their kid was treated so maybe they abducted the little girl.That would explain the girl being quiet when she was abducted because she was familiar with them.
I also think the boys were seperated from their dad for their safety from the people who abducted Isabel and not because they were in danger of their father.

BBM that decision was a CPS and father decision. If the children were in danger from the abductor that would be a LE job to protect them not CPS imo

 

[tresptip]

BBM that decision was a CPS and father decision. If the children were in danger from the abductor that would be a LE job to protect them not CPS imo

Whats BBM?
IMO, it doesn't matter whose decision it was, I still think it has something to do with someone that has a vendetta against the father and they want to keep the father away from the family for the time being.

 

[mck16]

Whats BBM?
IMO, it doesn't matter whose decision it was, I still think it has something to do with someone that has a vendetta against the father and they want to keep the father away from the family for the time being.

BBM = Bolded By Me

 

[mck16]

Whats BBM?
IMO, it doesn't matter whose decision it was, I still think it has something to do with someone that has a vendetta against the father and they want to keep the father away from the family for the time being.

I truly cannot believe this information has not been leaked. I would think that there are investigator/reporters who are trying to get that information. I don't know maybe they think/know the reason isn't important or minor and not a show stopper. jmo

 

[Taminator]

My opinion. Since the dad was a coach,its possible one of the parent or relatives of one of the kids he coached didn't like the way their kid was treated so maybe they abducted the little girl.That would explain the girl being quiet when she was abducted because she was familiar with them.I also think the boys were seperated from their dad for their safety from the people who abducted Isabel and not because they were in danger of their father.

IMO, it would be very easy to keep Isabel quiet, even in a stranger or acquaintance situation. It's very possible that someone that she didn't really know, but someone that she saw frequently in the neighborhood told her that the house was on fire and they were there to help her. If they further told her that he would take her to her family, I can't see her questioning it. She's six--I can't imagine that convincing a six-year-old to leave her home because of danger would be too hard. The Chandler Serial Rapist was able to convince pre-teen and teenage girls that he was there to rescue them from a fire in at least one incident.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Whats BBM?
IMO, it doesn't matter whose decision it was, I still think it has something to do with someone that has a vendetta against the father and they want to keep the father away from the family for the time being.

BBM is bolded by me

What I am saying is this was a CPS decision, their job is to protect children from parents/guardians who pose a danger. It is the Police's job to protect people from maybe type danger. In my opinion (imo) CPS did not make this decision because the boys were in danger of a stranger

This link may help you with our letter system lol NEW Websleuths Lingo - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Prof]

Nothing more ever happened with that case, did it? I wonder if they have DNA, they just can't identify it?

Did you bring up the dogs because they alerted someone or no one heard anything.

I agree with others, I think Isa could very well have been taken by a stranger and my guess would be a pedophile. And, much earlier that morning like the other girls. If it's fairly easy to get in and out, the walls can be a benefit as much as a detriment since no one can see in them unless standing on top of something.

I'm still not convinced the parents didn't do something or that if a 'stranger' took her, it was a complete stranger to the family (and no direct parental involvement).

They do have DNA. They took the guy in the surveillance at the Circle K's DNA and fingerprints to send out for testing.

I brought up the dogs because it was another case where the dogs did not seem to make a difference to the perp.

Yeah, I don't think that AS heard the perp, and there are things that she has said and done that don't exactly make her a credible witness...sorry JMO.

Yeah, it is really difficult to be convinced in any way of any theory, since we have very little in the way of facts.

 

[pieper4]

I truly cannot believe this information has not been leaked. I would think that there are investigator/reporters who are trying to get that information. I don't know maybe they think/know the reason isn't important or minor and not a show stopper. jmo

If we are relying on local reporters, I won't be holding my breath. They seem to have ceased their active interest in this case. Sadly. I haven't seen/heard of recent national interest either. Doesn't mean there isn't any, but it hasn't crossed my radar... in weeks.

 

[GutFeeling!]

If we are relying on local reporters, I won't be holding my breath. They seem to have ceased their active interest in this case. Sadly. I haven't seen/heard of recent national interest either. Doesn't mean there isn't any, but it hasn't crossed my radar... in weeks.

Ya just know I have to defend reporters sometimes lol

You can only rehash a story so many times. There is nothing new, family are not talking (you can bet reporters have tried contacting anyone that can string a sentence together) ... police are not releasing anything new, their job is not to speculate like we can here.

that said, I know some absolutely lazy reporters and editors and Managing Editors that can't be bothered even trying to continue.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

If we are relying on local reporters, I won't be holding my breath. They seem to have ceased their active interest in this case. Sadly. I haven't seen/heard of recent national interest either. Doesn't mean there isn't any, but it hasn't crossed my radar... in weeks.

Below are the last time each national media channel had something on the case:

CBS: May 22
MSNBC: May 15 (It's hard to search their website...so that date might not be accurate)
FOX: May 29
ABC: May 25
CNN/HLN: May 28

And local media...

Arizona Daily Star: June 8
Tucson News Now: June 6
News 4 Tucson: May 31
KGUN9: June 9

Tucson News Now, News 4, and KGUN9 all have a picture of Isabel on their front page, with a link to their "full coverage" of the case.

 

[liz b.]

BBM that decision was a CPS and father decision. If the children were in danger from the abductor that would be a LE job to protect them not CPS imo

IIRC, what led to SC not being allowed to have contact with the two remaining children was that LE discovered something in the course of their investigation, which made them very concerned for the safety of the children. They then contacted CPS. And there was a meeting with SC, CPS and LE. This meeting resulted in SC's not having any contact with the two remaining children... So, not really "a father and CPS decision " MOO Seems like the whole process was initiated by LE ...JMO

 

[Eileen730]

Whats BBM?
IMO, it doesn't matter whose decision it was, I still think it has something to do with someone that has a vendetta against the father and they want to keep the father away from the family for the time being.

If there was a threat against the father then entire family would be in protective custody and they would probably have a good idea as to who was threatening them!

JMO

The silence of this family SCREAM's!!!!!

I believe they are protecting one of their own!

All JMVOO

 

[time]

Nonfamily Abducted Children: National Estimates and Characteristics
Department of Justice, 2002

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...dkL-4z&sig=AHIEtbRSbymfZoKdKnLtE2ev-N7lLzjx3g


Not sure if this has been linked or talked about here. If you don't put any stock in statistics, then just pass on by.

Nonfamiy Abductions (the larger n study)- refers to being abducted by a slight stranger, slight or long term acquaintance, neighbor, authority figure, friend, caretaker, and anyone else not family.

Stereotypical Kidnappings (smaller n data from LE included within Nonfamily Abductions and reported separately in the report) - refers to "abductions perpetrated by a stranger or slight acquaintance and involving a child who was transported 50 or more miles, detained overnight, held for ransom or with the intent to keep the child permanently, or killed."

Unfortunately, statistics say in the large study here that only about 5% of nonfamily abductions occur from their own home or yard (16% of Stereotypical kidnappings occur from their own home or yard). About 37% of nonfamily abductions are committed by actual strangers (71% of Stereotypical kidnappings strangers - 29% slight acquaintance).

I guess the attack on the three other young girls ten miles away in their own home actually becomes more important because of it's rarity if committed by a complete stranger in their home also and since it was fairly close in time to Isabel's disappearance. Going against that is that none of the girls were abducted - although I think the guy was interrupted wasn't he?

I'm not sure what to research to find out the stats on how many kids are molested by a stranger in their own home (due to home invasion).

 

[Prof]

LE has stated that they had been working with CPS all along since the day Isa went missing, as standard protocol in any missing child case.

IMO LE did not state what level of concern LE had when they shared with CPS something that LE uncovered in their investigation, but I would imagine it was something of note, and they did not want to take any chances. That said, it could have been almost anything that involves the way the family dynamic is working or not working under this extreme amount of pressure. JMO

IMO this is one of the most conservative groups of LE I have seen on a case, and all three officers who have given pressers have presented a united front (against any of those reporters who can string a sentence together.)

LE has stated that this was indeed a voluntary agreement between CPS and the parents. LE went on to state that they would not comment on this as it was not their place to comment. LE sent reporters to a CPS contact name.

 

[GutFeeling!]

IIRC, what led to SC not being allowed to have contact with the two remaining children was that LE discovered something in the course of their investigation, which made them very concerned for the safety of the children. They then contacted CPS. And there was a meeting with SC, CPS and LE. This meeting resulted in SC's not having any contact with the two remaining children... So, not really "a father and CPS decision " MOO Seems like the whole process was initiated by LE ...JMO

Initiated yes .... but LE have no say in voluntary no contact requests.

 

[time]

They do have DNA. They took the guy in the surveillance at the Circle K's DNA and fingerprints to send out for testing.

I brought up the dogs because it was another case where the dogs did not seem to make a difference to the perp.

Yeah, I don't think that AS heard the perp, and there are things that she has said and done that don't exactly make her a credible witness...sorry JMO.

Yeah, it is really difficult to be convinced in any way of any theory, since we have very little in the way of facts.

That's right, thank you. I tried searching, but didn't get very far as I had forgotten a bout the Circle K guy.

 

[Prof]

Nonfamily Abducted Children: National Estimates and Characteristics
Department of Justice, 2002

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...dkL-4z&sig=AHIEtbRSbymfZoKdKnLtE2ev-N7lLzjx3g


Not sure if this has been linked or talked about here. If you don't put any stock in statistics, then just pass on by.

Nonfamiy Abductions (the larger n study)- refers to being abducted by a slight stranger, slight or long term acquaintance, neighbor, authority figure, friend, caretaker, and anyone else not family.

Stereotypical Kidnappings (smaller n data from LE included within Nonfamily Abductions and reported separately in the report) - refers to "abductions perpetrated by a stranger or slight acquaintance and involving a child who was transported 50 or more miles, detained overnight, held for ransom or with the intent to keep the child permanently, or killed."

Unfortunately, statistics say in the large study here that only about 5% of nonfamily abductions occur from their own home or yard (16% of Stereotypical kidnappings occur from their own home or yard). About 37% of nonfamily abductions are committed by actual strangers (71% of Stereotypical kidnappings strangers - 29% slight acquaintance).

I guess the attack on the three other young girls ten miles away in their own home actually becomes more important because of it's rarity if committed by a complete stranger in their home also and since it was fairly close in time to Isabel's disappearance. Going against that is that none of the girls were abducted - although I think the guy was interrupted wasn't he?

I'm not sure what to research to find out the stats on how many kids are molested by a stranger in their own home (due to home invasion).

The perp was confronted by the six year old's older sister.