AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24

[Pensfan]

This will sound outrageous. Prepare yourself. I have heard dozens of incidents where CPS in Pennsylvania actively pushed for a battered spouse to file for divorce from the supposed batterer or CPS would remove their children and place them in foster care.

If we eventually read that BC filed for divorce, CPS may have threatened to take her children/terminate her parental rights instead of BC believing Sergio harmed Isa.
(Clearly psych patients' CPS experiences are more tragic/bizarre than non-psych patients, but if CPS believes that one parent is a batterer, CPS seriously fears for the welfare of the children and they will take action.)

 

[Ransom]

This will sound outrageous. Prepare yourself. I have heard dozens of incidents where CPS in Pennsylvania actively pushed for a battered spouse to file for divorce from the supposed batterer or CPS would remove their children and place them in foster care.

If we eventually read that BC filed for divorce, CPS may have threatened to take her children/terminate her parental rights instead of BC believing Sergio harmed Isa.
(Clearly psych patients' CPS experiences are more tragic/bizarre than non-psych patients, but if CPS believes that one parent is a batterer, CPS seriously fears for the welfare of the children and they will take action.)

Maybe you've heard that in Pennsylvania, but not me. I have no experience that CPS would ever, ever get involved with a marital issue ... EVER. CPS cannot forsee the future. LE cannot forsee the future. :moo: You cannot do "blue sky" with someone's life as you can do in business.

 

[pieper4]

Locals are telling the blog owner of another site that Sergio has recently has been seen with his boys. Are there locals on here? Is this factual or gossip? TIA

Local here. Absolutely not verified. Several reporters were contacted and news stories run as a result. No verification.

 

[winterrose]

https://extranet.azdes.gov/dcyfpoli...1_Interviews_with_the_Child,_Family_and_C.htm

The department has three primary responsibilities when a report is taken:
*Respond according to priority timeframes to promote the safety and protection of children.
*Determine whether any child in the home is unsafe due to present and/or impending danger and if so take an immediate protective action or develop a safety plan to ensure the safety of the child.
*Determine whether the alleged abuse and neglect is substantiated or any other form of abuse and neglect has taken or is likely to take place.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I like this part from your article, winter.

It is possible for you to be completely uncooperative with CPS. If they never see your child, your home, you, or anyone you know there is very little they can do. This, though, can be a very large red flag that something is really wrong. I, personally, suggest that if you do not wish to cooperate in any way, you contact an attorney. Have that attorney talk with us. My personal experience has been that if there is no cooperation, there are a lot of things wrong. They may just go away eventually on one case, but when families have problems, they tend to get involved more than once. If you’re hiding nothing, it’s better to just cooperate. They can close your case a lot quicker and easier if you show us that nothing is wrong.

http://shancontented.hubpages.com/hub/InsideCPS

 

[winterrose]

I like this part from your article, winter.

It is possible for you to be completely uncooperative with CPS. If they never see your child, your home, you, or anyone you know there is very little they can do. This, though, can be a very large red flag that something is really wrong. I, personally, suggest that if you do not wish to cooperate in any way, you contact an attorney. Have that attorney talk with us. My personal experience has been that if there is no cooperation, there are a lot of things wrong. They may just go away eventually on one case, but when families have problems, they tend to get involved more than once. If you’re hiding nothing, it’s better to just cooperate. They can close your case a lot quicker and easier if you show us that nothing is wrong.

http://shancontented.hubpages.com/hub/InsideCPS

Yep, I also think if he had an attorney, we'd have heard about it already. You know actually it seems all we've heard about either parent is from a professional or public image. We really don't know much about them on a personnal level, we don't know much about any of the family members. It's like they're gone, but they're not. Very unusual for so many family members there to not be heard from, at all.

 

[MsFacetious]

Coming upon some sensitive information in nature, that came about in the investigation of SC's missing child, Isa, LE contacted CPS about SC. CPS went back to detectives in the case and Isa's family members, according to the chief, then reached an agreement with SC.

He has absolutely no contact with the boys, and after two months it's still in place. A statement from the agency read: "At the present time, the children are not in CPS custody. Reached an agreement means "you do this or this is what's going to happen", CPS doesn't play around. I don't know that anyone actually believes if he hadn't agreed to the agreement that the parents would still have the boys.

I fully believe that it is entirely possible they might still have the boys if they hadn't agreed with CPS.
Or that if Sergio took the boys tomorrow, he may not be in trouble for that. He technically still has custody just like his wife.

If they had such strong evidence that Sergio was a danger, why didn't they go to court and get an order for the no contact?
To ensure it was legally binding? Because this is just an "agreement." Not a restraining order or anything like that.

Let me remind everyone again of Devon Davis.
He ACCIDENTALLY drowned. Mom unintentionally fell asleep for 20 minutes when the two kids were napping, after moving cross country.

LE was very supportive. Texas Ranger's were the ones who carried his casket on and off the firetruck he took his last ride on.
Yet, CPS came in and had them do the same thing. An agreement. When they just wanted to leave and move back where they came from.

They spent $600 "kid proofing" a house they didn't own and were going to move out of anyway.
CPS didn't even just transfer their case out of state so they could move. They found no signs of abuse or neglect.

After weeks of doing everything they were told to, then told it would be 6 more MONTHS... the Davis parents "abducted" their child back.
They met with the Texas Ranger to show him the baby was fine... and they were allowed to leave the state with that child
because the agreement wasn't legally binding.

It is obviously possible. That doesn't mean it's what I believe, but it is certainly not something I can disregard.
Just like I can't disregard someone being wrongly accused and police screwing up the case. (Riley Fox anyone?)


Devon Davis:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167395&page=12

 

[winterrose]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/...in-case-of-missing-Tucson-girl-151221085.html

Lt. Fabian Pacheco said during the course of the ongoing investigation, detectives felt the need to get CPS more involved. Officials said, as a result, the two brothers are now in the custody of just one of their parents. "They determined there was a need to institute some measures to ensure the welfare of the older siblings," Lt. Pacheco said.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Again, thanks Winter.

The first news I read said that the boys were in custody of Rebecca and a family member. I also have read that Rebecca was staying with family members, Aunt & Uncle.

I'm curious as to this agreement.

 

[pieper4]

They are indeed a Ghost Family. Which is simply so bizarre.

Before someone jumps in/on... I do not expect to know the family's every intimate secret. But there are dozens of 'em in town or within a 2 hours' drive. Yet no one speaks up for Isa, aside from occasional prayer requests via FB or requests for volunteers at fund raisers. Where are these family members, and why aren't they vocal?

Ugh.

 

[Madeleine74]

They are indeed a Ghost Family. Which is simply so bizarre.
{snipped for space}
Where are these family members, and why aren't they vocal?

Has it occurred to anyone else that the parents might be hoping that Isa is not found and this whole thing will blow over (vis a vis the Sabrina Aisenberg case from many years ago)?

If we consider why might a child's parents not be frantic (or even interested) to find her, the conclusion becomes inescapable: something happened to her as a result of one or more family members and there is a coverup within the family to prevent an arrest and conviction because what happened is done and nothing can change it.

Seems fairly obvious and it explains the behaviors that have people scratching their heads in confusion. Isa is not missing. At least one family member knows where her remains are buried and the family does not want her found!

 

[pieper4]

Harkening back a thread or two... it seems they've determined they did NOT arrest the son of drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman as previously reported.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/americas/mexico-chapo-son/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+Most+Recent%29

 

[pieper4]

Has it occurred to anyone else that the parents might be hoping that Isa is not found and this whole thing will blow over (vis a vis the Sabrina Aisenberg case from many years ago)?

If we consider why might a child's parents not be frantic (or even interested) to find her, the conclusion becomes inescapable: something happened to her as a result of one or more family members and there is a coverup within the family to prevent an arrest and conviction because what happened is done and nothing can change it.

Seems fairly obvious and it explains the behaviors that have people scratching their heads in confusion. Isa is not missing. At least one family member knows where her remains are buried and the family does not want her found!

That thought has certainly crossed my mind. Yet I cannot look at Mom and sense anything remotely resembling sorrow, loss, or even anger. Surely if this is the case someone (Mom?!?) would have to betray some conscience. No?

The first words out of one LE I know here was "we just gotta find out where he put her". I've held onto the hope that whoever "he" is stashed Isabel... alive.

 

[Madeleine74]

How much time have you been able to spend with the mom? I saw a couple initial interviews but nothing since. Determining her level of anything would be impossible without seeing her, talking to her, etc.

 

[white rabbit]

where is thread 23? duh me. i'm trying to catch up.

was there a discussion about her latest interview on kgun?

TIA.

 

[tequilla shots]

I am a lurker here . I totally agree with this statement. My question would be why would the entire family stay quiet? There has to be one member of the family or extended family that has something to say about Isa being missing. So why is no one say anything? :banghead: It is very frustrating that they are so silent.

Has it occurred to anyone else that the parents might be hoping that Isa is not found and this whole thing will blow over (vis a vis the Sabrina Aisenberg case from many years ago)?

If we consider why might a child's parents not be frantic (or even interested) to find her, the conclusion becomes inescapable: something happened to her as a result of one or more family members and there is a coverup within the family to prevent an arrest and conviction because what happened is done and nothing can change it.

Seems fairly obvious and it explains the behaviors that have people scratching their heads in confusion. Isa is not missing. At least one family member knows where her remains are buried and the family does not want her found!

 

[FrayedKnot]

Nope. It's a legal thing from my opinion as ex-CPS worker in NM not AZ.

Each to their own.

Well, respectfully, when you (or the media) say "voluntarily", the implication is that is that the situation was initiated, created and embarked upon by SC, of his own volition, and not suggested or coerced by any outside influence.

By definition, this agreement is not voluntary if it was conceived or is managed by anyone other than SC. Unless SC decided all on his own to leave the family home, and is in no way under the strictures of CPS, then this arrangement is at best, a mutually agreed upon separation. Not the same as a voluntary separation.

Calling it voluntary is wrong. You can call a cow pie a sweet pea, but it's not going to smell any better.

IMHO, it stinks to high heaven.

 

[Sincerely]

Well, respectfully, when you (or the media) say "voluntarily", the implication is that is that the situation was initiated, created and embarked upon by SC, of his own volition, and not suggested or coerced by any outside influence.

By definition, this agreement is not voluntary if it was conceived or is managed by anyone other than SC. Unless SC decided all on his own to leave the family home, and is in no way under the strictures of CPS, then this arrangement is at best, a mutually agreed upon separation. Not the same as a voluntary separation.

Calling it voluntary is wrong. You can call a cow pie a sweet pea, but it's not going to smell any better.

IMHO, it stinks to high heaven.

I agree. If he chose to step out on his own then that is called a separation, right? CPS would not be involved in any way. IMO SC did not initiate this...and there is some reason behind it. So, I agree with "voluntary" not being the best of words.

 

[Madeleine74]

My question would be why would the entire family stay quiet? There has to be one member of the family or extended family that has something to say about Isa being missing. So why is no one say anything? :banghead: It is very frustrating that they are so silent.

What exactly are they going to say? The parents know something. The extended family may not know what happened so what exactly should they comment on?

The extended family is following the lead of the parents. The parents aren't worried! If they are not worried it's for a reason. Isa is not "lost" because the parents know where she is and they they know she's not coming back because she's no longer alive. And now, neither parent wants to get caught and go to jail because they still have the 2 boys to raise and eventually...at some point...who knows when...SC won't be apart from the boys (probably). It might take a year or more for that piece to get settled, but CPS can't keep them apart forever.

Speaking out = giving ammunition to law enforcement to make a legal case against you or a member of your family.

Staying quiet = protecting the family to avoid LE discovering anything more that may result in a prosecution.

2 + 2

Crystal clear.

 

[Madeleine74]

If there's any doubt that these kinds of cases do go away, notice that no one is obsessing over these unresolved missing kid cases. What do they have in common? The parents (or a step parent) are suspected of being involved, but there isn't enough evidence to prove it in a court of law.

- Sabrina Aisenberg (1997)
- Madeleine McCann (2007)

and more current cases:

- Kyron Horman (2010)
- Lisa Irwin (2011)
- Haleigh Cummings (2009)