AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24

[Prof]

I like this part from your article, winter.

It is possible for you to be completely uncooperative with CPS. If they never see your child, your home, you, or anyone you know there is very little they can do. This, though, can be a very large red flag that something is really wrong. I, personally, suggest that if you do not wish to cooperate in any way, you contact an attorney. Have that attorney talk with us. My personal experience has been that if there is no cooperation, there are a lot of things wrong. They may just go away eventually on one case, but when families have problems, they tend to get involved more than once. If you’re hiding nothing, it’s better to just cooperate. They can close your case a lot quicker and easier if you show us that nothing is wrong.

http://shancontented.hubpages.com/hub/InsideCPS

The Celis' family are cooperating.
IMO this is just another pay per hit site.

 

[TxLady2]

From most of the public's viewpoint, here lies the problem, http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/159977075.html In this video, RC's lack of emotion is actually disturbing. SC wasn't there, so obviously he's still under the CPS agreement after two months. The people behind RC are laughing, knowing the cameras are there and RC is being interviewed. The woman in the middle is I believe Isa's aunt, CL. They could at least act like they're there for a missing child, if they want donations from the public, not a good move to be laughing at a missing child table on camera. In the interview RC sounds like she's there for a charity drive and come over to the table and help out the cause.

Lack of emotion? Or lack of appropriate emotion?
No matter how they acted, it wouldn't be proper, IMO. I don't know about other people, but I woudn't even be inclined to walk up to the table if they were all sitting there glum and stone faced or wiping away tears every few seconds.... much less offer donations. People tend to avoid that kind of display in public.
No... I would not want them to ACT at all, just be natural. It's unfair to expect the family to still be emotional every time they're out in public. One can't maintain that kind of demeanor forever, it's not healthy. She is trying to project that she still has hope that Isa is alive. Are people going to donate or offer help if she's sitting there crying and sad? Nobody wants to look for a dead body.

 

[TxLady2]

Well, respectfully, when you (or the media) say "voluntarily", the implication is that is that the situation was initiated, created and embarked upon by SC, of his own volition, and not suggested or coerced by any outside influence.

By definition, this agreement is not voluntary if it was conceived or is managed by anyone other than SC. Unless SC decided all on his own to leave the family home, and is in no way under the strictures of CPS, then this arrangement is at best, a mutually agreed upon separation. Not the same as a voluntary separation.

Calling it voluntary is wrong. You can call a cow pie a sweet pea, but it's not going to smell any better.

IMHO, it stinks to high heaven.

His participation in the agreement is voluntary, thus not forcing CPS to get a court order. He didn't write the plan, he did agree to it and signed it voluntarily. Doesn't matter, legally, who initiated it, what matters is, he agreed to it and that's what makes it voluntary. IOW, while they didn't force him to agree to it, he had no other choice.
It's like if you're running from a herd of stampeding buffalo towards a cliff, you have the choice of jumping off the cliff or stop and wait for the herd of buffalo to catch up to you. Either way, you're going to die, it's just your choice of deciding which is quicker and less painful.

 

[white rabbit]

http://bringisahome.com/upcoming-events/

no more volunteer meetings?

 

[Prof]

I agree. If he chose to step out on his own then that is called a separation, right? CPS would not be involved in any way. IMO SC did not initiate this...and there is some reason behind it. So, I agree with "voluntary" not being the best of words.

I trust TPD and all of TPD's carefully chosen words in every presser since the start of this case.

If Chief Villasenor chooses the word "voluntary," it is certainly not "wrong" IMO, and it is the word that I will respect as the best of words for the circumstance. The Chief of TPD is at least informed by experts on the case.

"TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - During the 3:00 p.m. press conference, Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor told the media that Sergio Celis reached a voluntary agreement with Child Protective Services to not be in contact with the sons. They are currently living with the Isabel's mother, Rebecca.

"I don't want people to read too much into this," said Chief Villaseñor.

Villaseñor said there is a renewed interest in the missing case of 6-year-old Isabel Celis because of the involvement of CPS. He wanted to stress that CPS has been involved in the investigation since Isabel went missing 24 days ago.
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151452075.html

 

[winterrose]

Lack of emotion? Or lack of appropriate emotion?
No matter how they acted, it wouldn't be proper, IMO. I don't know about other people, but I woudn't even be inclined to walk up to the table if they were all sitting there glum and stone faced or wiping away tears every few seconds.... much less offer donations. People tend to avoid that kind of display in public.
No... I would not want them to ACT at all, just be natural. It's unfair to expect the family to still be emotional every time they're out in public. One can't maintain that kind of demeanor forever, it's not healthy. She is trying to project that she still has hope that Isa is alive. Are people going to donate or offer help if she's sitting there crying and sad? Nobody wants to look for a dead body.

The most emotion she had was when she said, "bring it on", which LE and CPS obviously did. I don't believe I would go up to the table anyway , unless I knew it was going to help find Isa and not just to support the family.

 

[winterrose]

...and yet LE released the 911 calls on the same day as the CPS announcement, which made SC look even more suspicious listening to his call. If he had given anymore detail of what he was doing the night before, instead of Isa, we'd now know what he was wearing.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Well, respectfully, when you (or the media) say "voluntarily", the implication is that is that the situation was initiated, created and embarked upon by SC, of his own volition, and not suggested or coerced by any outside influence.

By definition, this agreement is not voluntary if it was conceived or is managed by anyone other than SC. Unless SC decided all on his own to leave the family home, and is in no way under the strictures of CPS, then this arrangement is at best, a mutually agreed upon separation. Not the same as a voluntary separation.

Calling it voluntary is wrong. You can call a cow pie a sweet pea, but it's not going to smell any better.

IMHO, it stinks to high heaven.

I agree. IF he hadn't have left, CPS would have taken those children in a heartbeat.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

...and yet LE released the 911 calls on the same day as the CPS announcement, which made SC look even more suspicious listening to his call. If he had given anymore detail of what he was doing the night before, instead of Isa, we'd now know what he was wearing.

The ballgame. Or the recorded ballgame. The snickering on the 911 call. The fact that NOONE knows what Isa was wearing when she went to bed that night. Speaks volumes...

 

[OtherEyes]

Texas article on CPS's voluntary safety plan.
http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/2...ty-plans-allow-cps-to-circumvent-due-process/
http://www.chron.com/news/kilday-hart/article/Hart-Voluntary-CPS-plan-has-some-parents-3587923.php
(Yes, that dad whose wife was gunned down BY STRANGERS in the pediatrician's parking lot trying to protect her baby was threatened with CPS taking his baby or signing a voluntary safety plan allowing CPS to take his child. I couldn't make this stuff up. He did eventually get his baby returned.)

Wow...Very interesting article. Thank you for posting this and all your personal knowledge. I appreciate hearing from both you and Ransom regarding your experiences with CPS. (Also Gut Feeling and your personal experience with CPS.) You guys teach me a lot!

:tyou:

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-girl-isabel-celis-family-supports-father-16393653

Nancy Grace and Dan Abrams discuss Dad-

 

[FrayedKnot]

His participation in the agreement is voluntary, thus not forcing CPS to get a court order. He didn't write the plan, he did agree to it and signed it voluntarily. Doesn't matter, legally, who initiated it, what matters is, he agreed to it and that's what makes it voluntary. IOW, while they didn't force him to agree to it, he had no other choice.
It's like if you're running from a herd of stampeding buffalo towards a cliff, you have the choice of jumping off the cliff or stop and wait for the herd of buffalo to catch up to you. Either way, you're going to die, it's just your choice of deciding which is quicker and less painful.

You make a good point that his agreeing to this plan was voluntary ( although that is debatable until we know what alternatives SC was given).

I really think, though, that calling it a voluntary agreement is taking some liberties with the definition of the word.

Another thing to remember is that CPS was involved with this family in Dec. of 2011. To what extent, we of course don't know, except that there was no type of separation agreement in place back then.

This may be a case of CPS doing followup on the issues they addressed in December and not being satisfied with the situation, without factoring in Isa's disappearance. IOW, this really might have to do with another family issue that preceded Isa going missing.

 

[buggsmom]

If there's any doubt that these kinds of cases do go away, notice that no one is obsessing over these unresolved missing kid cases. What do they have in common? The parents (or a step parent) are suspected of being involved, but there isn't enough evidence to prove it in a court of law.

- Sabrina Aisenberg (1997)
- Madeleine McCann (2007)

and more current cases:

- Kyron Horman (2010)
- Lisa Irwin (2011)
- Haleigh Cummings (2009)

Adding
- Ayla Reynolds (2012)

 

[SmoothOperator]

Locals are telling the blog owner of another site that Sergio has recently has been seen with his boys. Are there locals on here? Is this factual or gossip? TIA

No local here and quite possibly that this is not important but I did note that when TPD/CPS has always been asked the status of the voluntary agreement they have always stated that yes, the agreement was in place.. however when this rumor began and reporters contacted by locals to see if it was true.. the reporters upon asking both TPD AND CPS about was the voluntary agreement still in place, I noted that their answer was NO COMMENT, rather than their usual stating affirmative that it was still in place. ..

But as i said may very well be nothing but is something i personally noted the day the article ran..

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Adding
- Ayla Reynolds (2012)

Aliayah Lunsford(2011)

 

[tlcya]

- Kyron Horman (2010)
- Lisa Irwin (2011)
- Haleigh Cummings (2009)
- Aliayah Lunsford(2011)
- Ayla Reynolds (2012)

I still google and check for updates on these kids daily. I guess I am one of the few still obsessing.

I do agree though, Isa's case seems to be heading that direction. No leads, no new news, updates far less frequent as the new wears off the story. Sigh.

 

[cluciano63]

OT, I would add Joshua because I think at least one adult in that home knows what happened to him.

 

[Dee10]

OT, I would add Joshua because I think at least one adult in that home knows what happened to him.

I was just thinking about Joshua Davis too, yes LE has been vocal that at least one of them knows more. :anguish:

 

[Pensfan]

http://bringisahome.com/upcoming-events/

no more volunteer meetings?

(Good catch!)
Nope. Zumba is still occurring though.

I'm a little worried that Isabel's window is still described as being "compromised" on that page. <modsnip> Poor thing!

 

[Pensfan]

Aliayah Lunsford(2011)

Haleigh Cummings.