AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24

[tequilla shots]

What exactly are they going to say? The parents know something. The extended family may not know what happened so what exactly should they comment on?

The extended family is following the lead of the parents. The parents aren't worried! If they are not worried it's for a reason. Isa is not "lost" because the parents know where she is and they they know she's not coming back because she's no longer alive. And now, neither parent wants to get caught and go to jail because they still have the 2 boys to raise and eventually...at some point...who knows when...SC won't be apart from the boys (probably). It might take a year or more for that piece to get settled, but CPS can't keep them apart forever.

Speaking out = giving ammunition to law enforcement to make a legal case against you or a member of your family.

Staying quiet = protecting the family to avoid LE discovering anything more that may result in a prosecution.

2 + 2

Crystal clear.

They could start by begging and pleading with anyone that will listen for her to be brought home safe. Shouting it from the roof tops if they had to.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

- Kyron Horman (2010)
- Lisa Irwin (2011)
- Haleigh Cummings (2009)
- Aliayah Lunsford(2011)
- Ayla Reynolds (2012)

I still google and check for updates on these kids daily. I guess I am one of the few still obsessing.

I do agree though, Isa's case seems to be heading that direction. No leads, no new news, updates far less frequent as the new wears off the story. Sigh.

I check on many of them also, and worry and lose sleep over them. What is even more heartbreaking is "we" care more than the ones who were supposed to be there to protect them...jmo!

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

They could start by begging and pleading with anyone that will listen for her to be brought home safe. Shouting it from the roof tops if they had to.

My question is this----What WOULDN'T you do if your child vanished?

Someone would have to gag me or sedate me to shut me up!

 

[white rabbit]

My question is this----What WOULDN'T you do if your child vanished?

Someone would have to gag me or sedate me to shut me up!

ITA.

i wouldn't set up a table two months later at a baseball game and accept donations.

but that's just me i guess.

 

[white rabbit]

(Good catch!)
Nope. Zumba is still occurring though.

I'm a little worried that Isabel's window is still described as being "compromised" on that page. Does Isa's window suffer from an immune system deficiency or did it agreement to a settlement in which it had to make a terrible concession? Poor thing!

that's what bothers me -- zumba is a usual occurance. it's not a 'bringhomeisa' event...it's a regularly scheduled offering of the tucson medical center. look under "community calendar":

https://www.tmcaz.com/

yet for the class, they accept donations.

i just don't get it.

re: the window...i have to 'lol' (and once again totally agree). compromised? how is a window 'compromised'? either it's open, shut, shattered, cracked or ajar. IMO...

 

[Madeleine74]

They could start by begging and pleading with anyone that will listen for her to be brought home safe. Shouting it from the roof tops if they had to.

So if Isa is buried somewhere due to something that happened in the family home and the family is desperately trying to keep all that covered up, you want them to continue to lie and scream for someone to find Isa and bring her home safe? Is wasting yet more resources running in a false direction a good thing to do?

Isa is most likely deceased and buried somewhere. It's important to work with what is an evolving reality. She's most likely never coming home.

At the end of the day, this is a legal family matter between police and the Celis family. This is not a case about a kidnapper who is a danger to children in the Tucson area. Public involvement is not needed in this case. If there are any doubts about this, contact the TPD and ask them if there is a kidnapper loose in the community.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

So if Isa is buried somewhere due to something that happened in the family home and the family is desperately trying to keep all that covered up, you want them to continue to lie and scream for someone to find Isa and bring her home safe? Is wasting yet more resources running in a false direction a good thing to do?

Isa is most likely deceased and buried somewhere. It's important to work with what is an evolving reality. She's most likely never coming home.

At the end of the day, this is a legal family matter between police and the Celis family. This is not a case about a kidnapper who is a danger to children in the Tucson area. Public involvement is not needed in this case. If there are any doubts about this, contact the TPD and ask them if there is a kidnapper loose in the community.

And they shouldn't be taking the money of citizens who really care about missing children. There will be a case where a family REALLY will need help from their community, and that community will not step forward because of cases like this. jmo

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

ITA.

i wouldn't set up a table two months later at a baseball game and accept donations.

but that's just me i guess.

Setting up a table, a website a facebook page or a twitter account would be the least of my worries-but thats just me !!

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

(Good catch!)
Nope. Zumba is still occurring though.

I'm a little worried that Isabel's window is still described as being "compromised" on that page. Does Isa's window suffer from an immune system deficiency or did it agreement to a settlement in which it had to make a terrible concession? Poor thing!

OT (sorry) ...thanks for making me smile today!

 

[mmmagique]

- Kyron Horman (2010)
- Lisa Irwin (2011)
- Haleigh Cummings (2009)
- Aliayah Lunsford(2011)
- Ayla Reynolds (2012)

I still google and check for updates on these kids daily. I guess I am one of the few still obsessing.

I do agree though, Isa's case seems to be heading that direction. No leads, no new news, updates far less frequent as the new wears off the story. Sigh.

Hasanni Campbell

 

[Madeleine74]

I check on many of them also, and worry and lose sleep over them. What is even more heartbreaking is "we" care more than the ones who were supposed to be there to protect them...jmo!

Unfortunately nothing is going to bring deceased children back. They're not hiding in some secret lair being raised by strangers and waiting to be discovered. What's left is a potential or pending legal issue in each jurisdiction.

As a member of the community and the public, the important point to remember is none of these children were likely kidnapped by some stranger. And no one else's children are at risk as a result of what happened to these children. Look at each case independently. Did anyone else's child go missing in connection?

Dysfunctional families exist everywhere and they always have (and they always will) in every socioeconomic strata. Deaths occur even when a perpetrator in the family doesn't intend to cause grave harm. We know this is true. And there are often resulting coverups to protect the guilty party and keep the remaining family unit intact...why?... because the death cannot be undone and the family wants to stay together.

We assume the families "don't care" about a deceased child. But what will bring the child back? The truth will send one or more of the family members to prison, even when a crime is not intended, but it won't undo a death. And as long as there is criminal punishment for a child's death there will be people trying not to get caught and be subject to that punishment, that's just how it is.

 

[Madeleine74]

- Kyron Horman (2010)
- Lisa Irwin (2011)
- Haleigh Cummings (2009)
- Aliayah Lunsford(2011)
- Ayla Reynolds (2012)

I still google and check for updates on these kids daily. I guess I am one of the few still obsessing.

I do agree though, Isa's case seems to be heading that direction. No leads, no new news, updates far less frequent as the new wears off the story. Sigh.

The point I was making was a simple one. When a child is killed and if it's a result of something that happened inside the home, there will be coverups.

Information is not going to be told by the family because then someone in the family will be sent to prison, even if it was an unintentional death. The cases grow cold because the people who know what happened and know where they buried the family member aren't going to tell!

I listed a few cases as examples only, not intended to be an exhaustive list and not to get others to make lists, but to illustrate the point.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I trust TPD and all of TPD's carefully chosen words in every presser since the start of this case.

If Chief Villasenor chooses the word "voluntary," it is certainly not "wrong" IMO, and it is the word that I will respect as the best of words for the circumstance. The Chief of TPD is at least informed by experts on the case.

"TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - During the 3:00 p.m. press conference, Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor told the media that Sergio Celis reached a voluntary agreement with Child Protective Services to not be in contact with the sons. They are currently living with the Isabel's mother, Rebecca.

"I don't want people to read too much into this," said Chief Villaseñor.

Villaseñor said there is a renewed interest in the missing case of 6-year-old Isabel Celis because of the involvement of CPS. He wanted to stress that CPS has been involved in the investigation since Isabel went missing 24 days ago.
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151452075.html

Now, why would LE want to stress that? It is totally irrelevant to the investigation.

Two options occurs to me -

1. a public relations exercise - they want the public to know that all departments have been working together as a team since day one;
2. arse-covering for when the truth comes out - they want the public to know that they alerted CPS immediately due to concerns about the Celis children from day one.

I believe it is option 2. LE have no requirement or need to justify why/if/when CPS are involved at all, especially not in a very short statement.

I believe it is far more likely that LE want the public to know there are major concerns in regards to the safety of the Celis children (and naturally this includes Isa), and that CPS have been brought in to help safeguard them, while evidence is being collected for charges to be laid.

:moo:

 

[liz b.]

So if Isa is buried somewhere due to something that happened in the family home and the family is desperately trying to keep all that covered up, you want them to continue to lie and scream for someone to find Isa and bring her home safe? Is wasting yet more resources running in a false direction a good thing to do?

Isa is most likely deceased and buried somewhere. It's important to work with what is an evolving reality. She's most likely never coming home.

At the end of the day, this is a legal family matter between police and the Celis family. This is not a case about a kidnapper who is a danger to children in the Tucson area. Public involvement is not needed in this case. If there are any doubts about this, contact the TPD and ask them if there is a kidnapper loose in the community.

Yes, I agree, it is probably a legal family matter between the family and LE. But...the state does have an interest in all children. The state requires that children receive some type of education.Some level of medical care,even if it is only immunizations against communicable diseases. The state will intervene to try to prevent parental abuse of children... And...we are the state, MOO. The people are the state ...JMO

So...guess what I am trying to say is that it may not really be just a legal matter between the parents and LE ? The public should be factored in there too ? Just a thought,,,and MOO

 

[Madeleine74]

And they shouldn't be taking the money of citizens who really care about missing children. There will be a case where a family REALLY will need help from their community, and that community will not step forward because of cases like this. jmo

People shouldn't commit fraud and run scams on each other, but they do. The world is not a completely honest place. Anyone who donates money should always conduct some due diligence on the cause, find out what the money is going for, and if in doubt, ask law enforcement if they need help from the public on that particular case.

To ensure your donations are used to find missing people/kids, donate to known and verified organizations who have a good reputation! And remember, no resource is being held back from the Celis family by the TPD or the FBI to locate Isa. Monies donated by citizens are not funding any "search" activities. If search activities are not being funded and the police aren't asking for financial assistance from the public (or any assistance), then the logical assumption is donated money is most likely going into someone's pocket.

As in all cases, CAVEAT EMPTOR!

 

[mmmagique]

The point I was making was a simple one. When a child is killed and if it's a result of something that happened inside the home, there will be coverups.

Information is not going to be told by the family because then someone in the family will be sent to prison, even if it was an unintentional death. The cases grow cold because the people who know what happened and know where they buried the family member aren't going to tell!

I listed a few cases as examples only, not intended to be an exhaustive list and not to get others to make lists, but to illustrate the point.

If Kyron Horman was killed by a family member (step mother) it was in no way an accident.

 

[Knox]

Hasanni Campbell

Adding to TL's list, Lindsey Baum-2009

 

[Madeleine74]

Yes, I agree, it is probably a legal family matter between the family and LE. But...the state does have an interest in all children. The state requires that children receive some type of education.Some level of medical care,even if it is only immunizations against communicable diseases. The state will intervene to try to prevent parental abuse of children... And...we are the state, MOO. The people are the state ...JMO

So...guess what I am trying to say is that it may not really be just a legal matter between the parents and LE ? The public should be factored in there too ? Just a thought,,,and MOO

The state has a legal obligation to its citizens, but the state is not going to educate, clothe, feed, and medicate a deceased child. And that's what we're talking about here. The state represents the people's interests and are given power to enact and carry out laws to protect citizens and/or punish citizens who are not in compliance with the laws.

No individual has the right to storm into the residence of where one of the Celis family members is living and scream for them to spill the beans on where Isa is located. Sure, many would like to, but the laws protect everyone, like it or not.

It is not a matter for the public to solve. It is legally in the jurisdiction of the state and the state's representatives. At the point it's been determined there is no danger to the public with a bogeyman kidnapper running around Tucson (which really is what people should be concerned about that actually applies to themselves), the rest is up to agencies of the state to legally prove what happened, if they can.

 

[Knox]

The enormity of this takes my breath away, how does a child just disappear from their own home? Poor Isa.

 

[Madeleine74]

If Kyron Horman was killed by a family member (step mother) it was in no way an accident.

Never said it was. But it is a familial killing and as such, no one else's child is in danger of being killed because of what happened to Kyron. These cases are ones in which a family member or someone in the family circle had direct access to the person who was harmed and is missing. Whether any of the cases were an accidental death, a death caused from neglect, or an intentional homicide, they are not the result of a "bogeyman kidnapper." That is the point.