Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #2

[Amster]

I don't want to grab a bat. A pair of handcuffs and a jail cell would suffice.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I call it, "self-preservation" mode. It appears she is answering questions based on trying to defend her parenting abilities rather than presenting facts. I have no doubt she is also trying to shield herself from prosecution for child neglect and endangerment. Frankly, she seems more concerned about what people in social media are saying than the death of her daughter - "I'm a good mother!"

:handslap:

Because many people seem to be holding her accountable for the actions of another.

(modsnip)

 

[tier]

I saw a comment in social media from a person who claimed JRR had attempted to use them as an alibi that evening but they refused him. That, IMO, seems to confirm that JRR had seemingly left TG's house (with false claim to be heading to a friend's house) when the group existed to go to Wal-Mart, but instead he remained hidden until the group drove away. At which time, JRR might have reentered the dwelling (knocked or simply walked in via an unlocked patio door) and got the kids to play "hide and seek" outside.

LE made point the sibling told them of JRR because they were on scene an interacting with JRR at the time of the disappearance .. the parents were not home. That is all LE knew at the time. And all we know is that LE stated the sibling told them of their interactions with JRR that evening, and that early in the investigation LE will focus on the immediate circumstances extant at the time or immediately leading up to the time of the disappearance.

States enforce specific criteria for issuing an Amber Alert .. I suspect the circumstances at the time did not meet those requirements.

An ever-changing stories situation is not unusual from someone in extended shock (i.e., PTS) exasperated by a late-night, tiredness, etc. Moving forward, the brain does not present memories of exactly what occurred .. it is rare that someone retains exact fact and presents it without error. Add on top of that the very real possibility you will lose another child (to CPS). IMO, the changing stories are explainable by that which I described and also by sloppy reporting in print media.

So you blame a sleepless night or media inaccuracy on her calling JR extended family, like family, someone she barely knows, an 'uncle'?

LE has said JR was staying there in the house for several days, why would he have to hide from them until they left? And if there was some big blow out with him so that TG kicked him out that night after the bbq why not think to say that when your daughter is missing since she wasn't known to leave the house without an adult per the 911 call?

I think the friend who refused to give JR an alibi was someone he said he was with during the 3 hours of midnight and 3am when LE intercepted him instead of killing Bella. Not for earlier in the evening when the parents were home/just leaving.

If there was just a few inconsistencies that would be one thing. But this case reeks with all the stories. Being tired or worried about CPS doesn't change your stories like that. Why say he babysat before, is living here, kills kittens and is like family to I barely know him, he was just here for a BBQ, he must have hid pretending to be gone til we left then back to he's extended family, let me talk to him I know he"ll open up so I can tell him why he did this, etc.

 

[bessie]

Nope. The info about JRs text is still there. I cannot figure out how to get my phone to copy/paste, but it is in the link on my post #212.

“Bella’s sister did not hear any yelling or any kind of disturbance,” he said.

“(She) told police that the last time she saw Bella was about 11:30 p.m. on Monday when she went to the bathroom,” said Williamson. “Her sister reported Bella was with Rector. When she came out of the bathroom, they were gone.”

The sister also told the Daily News that Rector later texted messages to the family indicating that he had Grogan-Cannella and asking what they were going to do about it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10927321

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...cle_94681350-34d0-11e4-b9e5-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Ontario Mom]

Would an 8 yr old girl leave home with El Creepo at midnight without calling out to GM or her sister?

If she thought it was part of a game? Probably. I suspect she never saw him as El Creepo the way all of us adults do now, knowing what he did and what his background is. Little kids don't know this stuff and don't have the life experience to suspect this kind of stuff. They are the most innocent and vulnerable members of our society. We know that, and the perverts know it too and exploit it. So... yeah, she would have willingly gone with one of mom's friends if he told the right lie.

 

[newone]

It is possible TG had texted JJR first and the sister assumed JJR's reply was the initial contact .. she might not have been aware her mother initially reached out to JJR?

After thinking about what you were saying, perhaps when sister called mom to say Bella's gone, TG texted JJR to check out what daughter had said. (Do not understand why people text instead of talk but hey that's me.)...is that what you were getting at?

 

[news.talk]

Because many people seem to be holding her accountable for the actions of another.

(modsnip)

Selective justice?

She is being held accountable for HER actions and inactions. No one elses.

 

[news.talk]

Some people, unfortunately are afflicted with brain issues that prevent maintaining explicit memory ... I know this from extremely close experience.

Forgetting is one thing, changing the story to suit an interview is another. Again, when you are telling the truth you don't have to have a good memory.

 

[tier]

And we wonder why these things keep happening over and over and over to these innocent children? I suppose it's easy to find excuses for anything in the abstract. Until one is presented with the reality of this kind of situation threatening one who is loved dearly. The excuses and explaining away of T's behaviour, lifestyle, choices leaves me feeling ill. Not one word of how little Bella might have felt.....did she scream? Was she shaking? IN SHOCK? My hope is that T is haunted by those questions for eternity. But, I doubt it.

No, T is wondering why this bad thing happened to her and being outraged she lost her other child instead of relieved that she is out of that criminal, drugged-out environment and safe. She could easily have two dead daughters right now. She should be thankful that one is still alive instead of angry she was taken for protection.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

She is being held accountable for HER actions and inactions. No one elses.

But her perceived "actions and inactions" are not (yet) under LE criminal indictment.

 

[newone]

I don't recall reading that, do you have a link handy?

FOUND IT

very valuable video here:

neighbor phoned in a tip about a suspicious man walking around and departing in a vehicle night bella was reported missing ((same time))

about 1:49 in the video

shows evidence markers, older sisters, and LE looking for evidence

http://www.jrn.com/ktnv/news/Body-fo....html?lc=Smart


this is when TG was at station for questioning....LE combing neighborhood garbage containers etc all levels of LE helping

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Forgetting is one thing, changing the story to suit an interview is another. Again, when you are telling the truth you don't have to have a good memory.

That is a false assumption. The "truth as one believes it to be" is a more appropriate description of reality. Take, for instance two "eye witnesses": witness #1 claims, "the robber was wearing a leather jacket", witness #2 claims, "the robber was wearing a dark coat" ... which is the *truth*?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Addiction, burglary, assault (bar fights or domestic), possessing drug paraphernalia DO NOT emphatically imply child molestation and murder.

Occam's Razor applies. The simplest explanation is most likely the truth.

Bottom line:

TG was surrounded by a criminal element, and she herself could be included in that description. She clearly was comfortable enough around the people, and that included JRR. It is no different than you or I hanging with friends and having a good time, trusting them and never thinking the worst of them.

Yes, the *criminal* aspect should lead one to mistrust and doubt but after you've been exposed to and emotionally involved with people (criminals or otherwise) the basic human emotions involved with comradery, love, affection are still valid and strong .. and with many people she considered *family*.

There was no conspiracy. TG and the group had no reason to believe JRR (whom in the past had watched or babysat her children on previous occasions) would molest (assumed) and murder *Bella* (a very fun-loving child, I've seen video of her interacting and playing .. Bella seemed more outgoing than her ten year old sister).

Something apparently snapped within JRR when he was playing "hide and seek" with the girls that evening. Clearly he allowed himself to succumb to a desire that he might have been harboring for some time or perhaps only more recently .. or perhaps the first time that evening.

JRR's perfect storm led to Bella's terror:

1) Evil desire.
2) Opportunity.
3) Distorted thinking.

TG and family are *VICTIMS* of Bella's murder.
TG's (and family's) pain is real and clearly deep.
Bella's murder will forever affect her life, just as it would any loving mother.
JRR is the *PERP*, just out of drug rehab, most likely not fully detoxed nor deterred from the desire.
TG, seeing JRR as family (possibly a cousin of RF?, relationship unknown) opened her home to help.

Her good deed led to the molestation (assumed) and murder of her own (seemingly favorite) child.

Condemnation of her has gone beyond the pale. Yes, she made tragically bad choices, but is not the death of her own child enough punishment for the rest of her life? And quite possibly , CPS / DA will determine TG was negligent in providing a safe environment for her children.

I find the penetrating, hate-filled attacks presented in social media, in this forum and in comments on news web sites directed at a mother whom has just lost her child to murder by a family friend to be extremely disturbing ... a mob mentality effort to inflict mental pain beyond the hurt of losing her child. I believe it is wrong, and unproductive.

At the end of the day, that little girl would most likely still be alive, dancing, singing, being goofy, playing at school, etc., had her mother kept the criminal element away from her, and their home. While it is true that law abiding citizens fall prey to the perverted criminal element as well, the liklihood of becoming a victim of a violent crime dramatically increases if you surround yourself and your children, around violent criminals. I don't have a link or stats to back this up, I say this from countless conversations I've had over the years with friends who are LE and family who is former LE.

It's just the way it is. Is poor Bella's death punishment enough? NO it most certainly is not. Unless she owns her complicit status in this filthy, brutal crime, gets help, gets clean (if in fact she is a user, which I suspect she is) turns her life around, cuts out EVERY junkie & criminal she knows (and if that means moving away, so be it) then no, nothing will change. She'll just become more and more bitter and vengeance-driven without ever owning her own responsibility in this. If she DOES take a complete 180 and says to herself "dear God what have I done?" then I'll be the first one coming back in a year or 5 saying "oh wow, look what she's done with her life since little Bella was taken away!!" It can happen and it does happen, but unless SHE makes that first move, it won't happen.

MOO and all that good stuff.

 

[news.talk]

But her perceived "actions and inactions" are not (yet) under LE criminal indictment.

One does not need an indictment to be held accountable for culpability.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Addiction, burglary, assault (bar fights or domestic), possessing drug paraphernalia DO NOT emphatically imply child molestation and murder.

By the way, FWIW, I agree with you on this. However, it most certainly DOES imply to any rational, good parent, higher risk for potential danger (to themselves or their children) than the average Joe who has no criminal background whatsoever. Key words here are rational and good parent. We already know those girls were in someone else's custody (likely by private agreement due to criminal charges) for several months last year. That certainly doesn't scream "rational, good parent" to me.

I stand by my opinion that this woman put her children in harm's way by her personal lifestyle choices. This will be really hard for her to admit, if she ever does, but publicly accessible court records prove this to be the case.

 

[3blue1pink]

That is a false assumption. The "truth as one believes it to be" is a more appropriate description of reality. Take, for instance two "eye witnesses": witness #1 claims, "the robber was wearing a leather jacket", witness #2 claims, "the robber was wearing a dark coat" ... which is the *truth*?

Obviously you're trying to imply both are correct . However saying "I barley know him" vs "he's like family " are ridiculously contrary

 

[news.talk]

At the end of the day, that little girl would most likely still be alive, dancing, singing, being goofy, playing at school, etc., had her mother kept the criminal element away from her, and their home. While it is true that law abiding citizens fall prey to the perverted criminal element as well, the liklihood of becoming a victim of a violent crime dramatically increases if you surround yourself and your children, around violent criminals. I don't have a link or stats to back this up, I say this from countless conversations I've had over the years with friends who are LE and family who is former LE.

It's just the way it is. Is poor Bella's death punishment enough? NO it most certainly is not. Unless she owns her complicit status in this filthy, brutal crime, gets help, gets clean (if in fact she is a user, which I suspect she is) turns her life around, cuts out EVERY junkie & criminal she knows (and if that means moving away, so be it) then no, nothing will change. She'll just become more and more bitter and vengeance-driven without ever owning her own responsibility in this. If she DOES take a complete 180 and says to herself "dear God what have I done?" then I'll be the first one coming back in a year or 5 saying "oh wow, look what she's done with her life since little Bella was taken away!!" It can happen and it does happen, but unless SHE makes that first move, it won't happen.

MOO and all that good stuff.

One does not need an indictment to be held accountable for culpability.

Exactly what I meant by my post above. I can't speak for others, but I too would be satisfied if she admitted her culpability and made an effort to significantly change her lifestyle for her surviving children. She could pay her debt by working with other mothers in similar situations to help them avoid her tragedy.

She now has a debt that she must pay. Whether it be through prison, rehab or service to the education of others, she and she alone needs to pay it.

 

[3blue1pink]

Sorry for the double post my phone was being weird

 

[Knox]

I call it, "self-preservation" mode. It appears she is answering questions based on trying to defend her parenting abilities rather than presenting facts. I have no doubt she is also trying to shield herself from prosecution for child neglect and endangerment. Frankly, she seems more concerned about what people in social media are saying than the death of her daughter - "I'm a good mother!"

:handslap:

BBM- Exactly my thoughts.

But as always in cases like this one, I wonder how this could have been prevented. I'm so tired of seeing these little ones pay the price for their parents poor choices. Both of Tania's children had been in the care of their Grandparents in the last year. I have no idea if this was voluntary or something that occurred because CPS was involved. I'd be curious to know if there is a history with this family, and if so, details of the actions taken in regard to safeguarding their care. Through the Jhessye Shockley case, I know AZ is reforming/overhauling the state's CPS agency.
http://www.kpho.com/story/25642889/brewer-signs-child-welfare-overhaul-into-law

<modsnip>
Police said Rector had been living with the family for the few days. Bella's grief-stricken mother, Tania Grogan, said the suspect used to watch Bella, adding through tears: "I thought we were family. I want him to hurt the way she hurt."

 

[news.talk]

That is a false assumption. The "truth as one believes it to be" is a more appropriate description of reality. Take, for instance two "eye witnesses": witness #1 claims, "the robber was wearing a leather jacket", witness #2 claims, "the robber was wearing a dark coat" ... which is the *truth*?

No it's not. We're not talking about a coat; we are talking about completely forgetting that a violent criminal went missing from her home at the exact same time her daughter did. How does one "forget" to mention to the people searching for their daughter that this same man texted her claiming to have her child?