Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #2

[Tricia]

. . .I find the penetrating, hate-filled attacks presented in social media, in this forum and in comments on news web sites directed at a mother whom has just lost her child to murder by a family friend to be extremely disturbing ... a mob mentality effort to inflict mental pain beyond the hurt of losing her child. I believe it is wrong, and unproductive.

Dear ChuckMaureen,

Please know the last thing we ever want on Websleuths are hate-filled diatribes against parents of a murdered child. If you ever see something you feel is hateful in nature on Websleuths please
click the triangle in the lower left-hand corner of the post in question. This will alert the moderators and they can look it over and decide if it does indeed violate our Terms of Service

The problem is in some cases the parents bad choices may have played a part in the death of their child. People want to discuss the circumstances surrounding the case which could include the parents.

However, that in no way means Websleuths will allow anything that is hateful, sarcastic, flippant, or allow a discussion of a topic concerning the parent's personal life that does not in any way
shape or form connected to the death of their child.
I have seen Isabella's mother on TV and it breaks my heart.

We don't know everything yet. Please keep that fact in mind when you post.

Finally, many times during the day our hard working moderators have to make judgement calls. There are always a ton of grey areas. Rarely is anything black and white anymore. Please be respectful of their decisions.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[ChuckMaureen]

JJR had an order of protection placed by three minor children for physical assault....GG didn't have that

True. And those facts further emphasize my point that simply having or not having a criminal record is not indicative of being a child murderer.

Was TG aware of the PO? If she was, then she is oblivious to her own fecklessness, a worthless example of a parent.

<modsnip>

 

[3blue1pink]

And when did TG become aware of that alleged (hearsay) 'fact'? Before or after JJR was arrested for murder? I contend we do not know and may not automatically assume it was before .. because it is entirely possible JJR's ex-gf relayed that info after the arrest .. just as equally possible as before.

If it was before then TG is deeply warped in her thinking (as many suspect). And given TG' seeming affection for JJR before the murder it is obvious she let slide such weirdness and attributed the action to either a sexual fetish (erotic asphyxia, perhaps with the ex-gf a willing or unwilling participant) or simply a harmless quirk (assuming no animals were killed during the alleged practice).

Even in TG wasn't aware of the pet strangulation , she still invited a known drug user whom had had several violence related arrests stay in her home with two young girls !!! Are you saying you'd do the same ? Give'em the benefit of the doubt . For what ? What was her payoff to let this sick excuse for a human being stay in her house ? Was is because she's was helping out humanity one druggie at a time ? Yeah .. I don't think so ....

 

[newone]

I believe TG must be indicted for exposing her children to druggies / drug use .. but she is NOT responsible for the actions of JJR.

Again: drug use et al, is NOT an implicit indicator of being a child murderer. So many seem to not understand that distinction.

TG is guilty only of exposing her children to the druggies / drug culture .. not to a child murderer. For how many families have befriended (or vice versa) individuals who were pinnacles of their communities only to find the shining example of a neighbor or family member was heck-bent on raping and / or murdering a child / children?

My concern is that a parent's failure to disclose all facts in a timely manner in a child abduction/disappearance is more than an oops and in fact contributed to the death of her child. IF she had contacted LE immediately upon receipt of her daughter's phone call/text perhaps Bella would still be alive.

MOO

 

[bessie]

And when did TG become aware of that alleged (hearsay) 'fact'? Before or after JJR was arrested for murder? I contend we do not know and may not automatically assume it was before .. because it is entirely possible JJR's ex-gf relayed that info after the arrest .. just as equally possible as before.

If it was before then TG is deeply warped in her thinking (as many suspect). And given TG' seeming affection for JJR before the murder it is obvious she let slide such weirdness and attributed the action to either a sexual fetish (erotic asphyxia, perhaps with the ex-gf a willing or unwilling participant) or simply a harmless quirk (assuming no animals were killed during the alleged practice).

What bothers me most is the lack of shock and horror, as though she's had time to resolve JJR's proclivities in her mind. To me, that suggests she's known for awhile. JMO

As for being a "harmless quirk", I have no words.

---

Mother on child's accused killer: &#8216;I trusted him&#8217;
Posted: Sep 05, 2014 10:26 PM CST Updated: Sep 06, 2014 12:36 AM CST
Written by Craig Huber - Written by Danielle Miller

[...]

"I don't know why. That's what I would like to ask him &#8211; why Bella?" Grogan said.

Grogan said Rector had been close with the family for years, even watching the girls several times in the past.

"I trusted him with my life. My children are my life, and now one of them is gone and they want to take the other one from me," Grogan said.

Grogan said Rector never showed signs of aggression until recently. She said his ex-girlfriend recently filed police reports accusing him of strangling her pets.

"Something triggered in his head, and he just got off on strangling, I guess. He strangled my daughter to death. That's how she died," Grogan said.

"Every time you look up in the night and you see a star, that's Bella. She's a shining star and she'll always be my shining star," Grogan said.

 

[news.talk]

Wait a second. I haven't seen anyone say TG should be held responsible for JR's actions. She should most definately be held responsible for her own actions. Which may or may not include harming her child. And she might be responsible for withholding information that could have saved her child from being murdered also if given promptly. MSM says the sibling said JR texted TG he had Bella. TG says they went home and searched for 40 minutes before calling 911. And even then did not mention JR had her. Her actions are what she needs to be responsible for.

That would mean she was home between 12:30 - 12:45. That would make her story of being gone for 90 minutes, leaving the home at 11:00 fit the timeline better.

Even if it took her 15 minutes to get home after her daughters text, she very well could have called the police shortly after midnight from *wherever* she was. Why wasn't she on the phone with the police IMMEDIATELY after JJR confirmed he had Bella? I wouldn't go home to look for her just in case he was kidding about *kidnapping* her child.

That extra hour only adds to the sickening feeling that had she alerted the police promptly and told the TRUTH, that her daughter may still be alive.

Sure, we all make errors in judgement, but this one cost her a child's life.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

per the 911 call......no

in fact if that material fact had been released to LE at onset bet you there would have been AMBER ALERT

I agree.

I wonder if we will see only one additional arrest, or two? RF is equally "culpable" .. it was he who called 911.

 

[newone]

I agree.

I wonder if we will see only one additional arrest, or two? RF is equally "culpable" .. it was he who called 911.

entirely possible...and I asked, "does this qualify as making a false report to LE"?

 

[3blue1pink]

I agree.

I wonder if we will see only one additional arrest, or two? RF is equally "culpable" .. it was he who called 911.

One can only hope .

 

[tier]

That would mean she was home between 12:30 - 12:45. That would make her story of being gone for 90 minutes, leaving the home at 11:00 fit the timeline better.

Even if it took her 15 minutes to get home after her daughters text, she very well could have called the police shortly after midnight from *wherever* she was. Why wasn't she on the phone with the police IMMEDIATELY after JJR confirmed he had Bella? I wouldn't go home to look for her just in case he was kidding about *kidnapping* her child.

That extra hour only adds to the sickening feeling that had she alerted the police promptly and told the TRUTH, that her daughter may still be alive.

Sure, we all make errors in judgement, but this one cost her a child's life.

Her daughter called her after them being gone only the time of a bathroom break in any case so she most definately was probably still alive at that call.

 

[news.talk]

True. And those facts further emphasize my point that simply having or not having a criminal record is not indicative of being a child murderer.

Was TG aware of the PO? If she was, then she is oblivious to her own fecklessness, a worthless example of a parent.

<modsnip>

The point is, the *type* of criminal record speaks volumes about one's sense of morals, proclivities, and most importantly, future behaviour.

I agree that being addict doesn't make you a bad person nor is indicative of a child murderer, but his violent history and the fact he is not allowed to be around his own children due to assault should be enough to prevent you from having him babysit and live with your children. Inviting that into your house is like leaving a loaded gun in your kids toy box. Both should get you jailed.

 

[3blue1pink]

Her daughter called her after them being gone only the time of a bathroom break in any case so she most definately was probably still alive at that call.

True... I wonder how long it actually took her to call. I'm sure LE knows now what time that call came in . That's so key.

 

[news.talk]

Her daughter called her after them being gone only the time of a bathroom break in any case so she most definately was probably still alive at that call.

We don't know what time that bathroom break took place. May have happened anytime within - my estimation - between 11:00 and 12:00 (give or take).

Either way, I concur that she most likely could have been found alive had the parents put her needs before their own. I have no doubt they may have waited to call police to give them time to go home and hide drugs/paraphernalia. IOW, securing their own interests and possibly giving JJR the time needed to murder Bella.

 

[3blue1pink]

Is there any MSM link about TG denying LE access to the home prior to the search , or is that just rumor ? If that is true then my self preservation theory doubles.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

And sometimes kids can run into traffic without being harmed. Should we all stop advising against it?

In every case you seem to have a contrary opinion to most. I'm not an advocate of everyone agreeing to even extreme events (like suicidal people should be talked out of it etc) but when it is always the case with a particular person even on similar cases being argued oppositely and very strongly it makes me curious.. are you playing devil's advocate here? I'm not being snarky but sincerely asking. Because fwiw you earlier brought up Jenise's case and I for one felt the parents were in the wrong and conveyed that in just about every post I made. I, too, thought the father mentoring GG had sinister motives behind it. So while the majority thought they should be off limits I didn't see it that way at all. And in this case I don't either even if the majority agree with me this time.

I am arguing mainly on this point: the (IMO) seemingly relentless attacks on TG. I suspect TG is not sitting home, on-line and monitoring this particular WS forum for helpful tidbits on how she might improve her life (if she is then she is beyond help). ;-)

I know many are venting high level anger at the woman ... she is being accused of exposing her child to a person who murdered her child. I believe that is a ridiculous position. TG is no more responsible for JJR's *actions* than I am for my cats midnight excursions of running through hallways and screaming as loudly as a jet engine whines at 110% blow.

Yes. I agree. TG should NOT have exposed her children to a druggie environment. Period. But that fact she did so is NOT the reason her child was murdered. The murderer could just as easily have been a well-liked, star neighbor. The fact that it was one of the druggies living in her home (regardless of the criminal record, which does not include charges of child murder) does not make her directly culpable for that druggie's actions (UNLESS facts reveal a situation between them that was a direct cause of JJR murdering her child, with her knowledge that that was to occur). Yes, if TG was aware of the specifics of JJR's legal issues (assault, PO requested by minors) then she deserves to be convicted.

<modsnip>

 

[tier]

We don't know what time that bathroom break took place. May have happened anytime within - my estimation - between 11:00 and 12:00 (give or take).

Either way, I concur that she most likely could have been found alive had the parents put her needs before their own. I have no doubt they may have waited to call police to give them time to go home and hide drugs/paraphernalia. IOW, securing their own interests and possibly giving JJR the time needed to murder Bella.

It could have happened at midnight true my point was more to do with within minutes of him taking her so they weren't gone long and LE would have had a fighting chance of finding her especially if they walked or anyone noticed a car gone and could give a description.

 

[newone]

We don't know what time that bathroom break took place. May have happened anytime within - my estimation - between 11:00 and 12:00 (give or take).

Either way, I concur that she most likely could have been found alive had the parents put her needs before their own. I have no doubt they may have waited to call police to give them time to go home and hide drugs/paraphernalia. IOW, securing their own interests and possibly giving JJR the time needed to murder Bella.

I really believe that if they had called from Walmart to LE immediately, cops would have obviously beat them to their residence. Seriously, LE would have taken a quick report asked for description and called it in right away the LEO's would have made their first priority the child.

Unless there was something ''in plain sight'' I think LE's first priority would have been getting Bella's info for AMBER ALERT

 

[newone]

Is there any MSM link about TG denying LE access to the home prior to the search , or is that just rumor ? If that is true then my self preservation theory doubles.

thank you for bringing that up!! -- it rings a bell with me and I was unsuccessful at finding an MSM source

 

[bessie]

Speaking of the timeline:

"Grogan says she left Isabella and her older sister upstairs with Folster's mother. She claims she did not even know Rector, a family friend, was in the home. Court records, however, state Grogan's two children were downstairs with Rector and three other friends. Grogan says she called police after searching for Isabella for more than 40 minutes. "

http://www.kpho.com/story/26461801/isabellas-mother-she-was-my-baby-she-was-my-world?autostart=true

Okay, how long ago did you see her?
Okay, about an hour, hour and a half ago we went to Walmart, me and my wife and then (unintelligible) her sister called us on the phone saying she couldn't find her sister so

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/09/05/911-call-missing-isabella-grogan-cannella

---

This is how I read it.

Midnight-12:50 -- Walmart

12:50-1:30 -- searching for Bella

1:30 -- 911 call

---

But then we have this discrepancy. Someone's time is off by at least 30 minutes:

Suspect charged in girl’s death
The sister "told police that the last time she saw Bella was about 11:30 p.m. on Monday when she went to the bathroom,” said Williamson. “Her sister reported Bella was with Rector. When she came out of the bathroom, they were gone.”

 

[AliEastCA]

There are thousands of kids in every state that live in similar circumstances as Bella did. And I think we can all agree that a very small % will be murdered. The point is these kids have to grow up surrounded by disfunctional adults, who come in and out of their lives, not making them top priority. The fact that her mother was shocked and never believed he would harm her, or to say they were like family is truly what she believed. Just like she believes she did nothing wrong here. The truth is no one put her to bed at night, in passing out the door mom says get your to bed. No one was shopping for school lunches, mom knew the school has a program to feed low income kids .. And that was good enough . There is no routine normalcy or even a thought for the school year schedule , holidays or any planned family events whatsoever. I'm not saying for sure in this particular family but in thousands just like it getting the next fix comes first before anything. So between court dates or weeks in jail maybe forced treatment for 30 days, probation officers , case workers, trying to just get the kid to school most days is being a loving mother. There is no engaging in the child's life per say. These kids likely watch a lot of TV, overhear most adult conversations , they know stuff they shouldn't. They see guns and dope and sex and violence. Usually no one is working so there is always lots of people, namely men hanging around. The house is full of clutter. Dangerous tools broken electronics garbage. I know in my experience I knew kids that had their piggy banks stolen or any nice toy they have, it gets stolen eventually. It's not fair. Our system in place to protect kids is over run.. Cannot handle the amount of cases it sees. The caretakers at Bella's will be made an example I hope because the primary thing on her mind was not the safety of her kids and she did nothing about it. There is no certainty or guarantee that kids of criminal drug addicts will be victimized. But the chance for them to become thriving adults in the next generation is very slight. WS gives me a renewed faith in humanity that people care and are seeking answers to things that really we could ignore for the most part. We don't need to know these children to get emotional about them and seek justice for them. Just my opinion of course. Sorry for errors I'm on an iPhone typing with my finger.