Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #2

[ChuckMaureen]

People who don't know whom is their biological parent (let's say father) but desperately wants to know can sometimes develop strange behaviors that are unhealthy, both for themselves and for their own children. Just sayin'.....

A mother's who's hinky meter doesn't go off when freaks are around their child has a major problem .. unfortunately, many suffer from the result. No defense of this situation, but, there must be sympathy for this woman and her family .. .she did lose the light of her life, at the hands of a sick criminal who seemingly groomed the family in to believing he was a 'friend' to the family. Who knows how good or bad he was at that play, maybe some here would have been fooled by him but let's not lose focus on the fact this woman lost her child and a child lost her younger sister .. and only the perp is fully to blame regardless of the woman's chosen lifestyle.

The *perp* is the criminal. The mother is just as much a victim, whether or not exasperated by her own failures.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

She's telling a story to fit the questions people are asking....buying snacks for the kids....at 11pm?? Oh! Now, it's snacks for the girls lunches...
Kids up at 11:30 on a school night? Oh! Last words to Bella, "Get your butt in bed".....
Now, also, we're hearing that hubby/bf whatever had friends over. Some went to Walmart with them and some went home. I'm dying to know what is so damn interesting at Walmart that a group of friends would go there at 11:30pm?
I'm not buying one word she's spewing....she let a pet strangler into her home with her little girls!! Just no...:sick:

They were buying "snacks for lunch" .. as per news report. As in, to include with their school lunches for the week. Nothing strange about it.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Okay, this is when it gets really difficult to keep on my mod hat.

"'Something triggered in his head, and he just got off on strangling, I guess. He strangled my daughter to death. That's how she died," Grogan said."

She knew he strangled pets and still allowed this person under the same roof with her children?? Even in the presence of adults, I wouldn't let a person like that lay eyes on my child.

And while my mod hat is off for a moment I'm going to say one more thing. I've read FB, too, and my heart bleeds in a big way for the surviving child. A chunk of that darling kid's life was destroyed that night, also.

Enough said. Mod hat goes back on.

Is this not in some way, attacking the mother who has just lost her child to a tragic and brutal murder? Is she not considered a victim, much the same as Jenise Wright's father and mother? In the Jenise Wright threads, and in virtually every other thread .. Mods posted multiple times that *victims* were off limits if they were not also considered involved with the crime. Am I missing something here?

Sorry .. had to comment on this because I once was given a time out in these forums (for different reason) and wondering if policy has been changed? Emotions are running high with this case and it seems the craziness posted on certain social media web sites has spilled over in to this forum .. which typically is held to a much higher standard.

<MODSNIP>

 

[alreetlike]

They were buying "snacks for lunch" .. as per news report. As in, to include with their school lunches for the week. Nothing strange about it.

Wasn't school the next day? I'd have thought lunches would've been thought about long before that time of night.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Wasn't school the next day? I'd have thought lunches would've been thought about long before that time of night.

How long ago should it have been? A day? A week? A month? To some it might seem odd, but not everyone plays life to strict schedules and plans ahead days at a time.

They had just had friends over for a party. We might reasonably assume they ate snacks during the party and perhaps had devoured every last morsel .. and therefore, to keep her kids happy with surprises in their lunches she decided to trip on over to Wal-Mart to buy more snacks.

 

[keeponsearching]

I wonder the time difference from when Tania talk to the grandma and the 911 call. With Tania saying they took her, it might be she was thinking cps, and might of been on something to think that.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1409/04/ng.01.html

"TONI PAGE, GRANDMOTHER OF MURDERED GIRL: They took her, they took her. I won`t do anything bad anymore. They got Bella. And then the next minute their stories all change. Everybody had different stories."

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

BBM- Wow...well that there sure says a lot!!! Extortion charges. As in he had something on the parents that could get them in trouble. They were worried about getting in trouble and had hoped they could figure out a way to find Bella without fingering Rectum (misspelling on purpose.)

OK----think I'm caught enough now to get pretty angry!! :gaah:

Just jumping off your post...

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...350-34d0-11e4-b9e5-0019bb2963f4.html?mode=jqm

The link referred to above had this additional information:

Quote:

"They [FBI agents and officers] then shifted their focus to a car belonging to Tania Grogan, which had been parked across the street since her daughter's disappearance."

So... This seems to answer our question of the ownership of the car tha LE taped off at the same time the house had been taped off...

the car belongs to Grogan.

For some reason I was thinking Grogan and Folster had walked to Walmart... But now I wonder if they drove to Walmart in Grogan's car...

or if it was used by anyone else on that night...

JMO...

 

[Magdalyn]

Is this not in some way, attacking the mother who has just lost her child to a tragic and brutal murder? Is she not considered a victim, much the same as Jenise Wright's father and mother? In the Jenise Wright threads, and in virtually every other thread .. Mods posted multiple times that *victims* were off limits if they were not also considered involved with the crime. Am I missing something here?

Sorry .. had to comment on this because I once was given a time out in these forums (for different reason) and wondering if policy has been changed? Emotions are running high with this case and it seems the craziness posted on certain social media web sites has spilled over in to this forum .. which typically is held to a much higher standard.

<MODSNIP>

Commenting on statements a parent/parents make in MSM is not considered 'bashing'. Not bashing the victim does not mean you can't mention anything that may portray the victim in what some may see as a negative light.It is within TOS, as it has been in other threads, such as is the case with Cherish Perrywinkle, Teleka Patrick, Jorelys Rivera, etc.

In those cases it was allowable to say, for example, "Wow, I can't believe she put her kids in a seatless van with a stange man. I can't understand a mother sending her to a fitting room with a strange man." They are the facts of the case. It is allowable to comment on how we feel about them, unless under special circumstances, a mod takes them off the table (which is what has happened in the Jenise Wright thread, which is something of an anomaly.)

We are allowed to discuss facts of the case surrounding the event, and if the parents are included in those facts, that is within TOS.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Clue, I can't find the post where you just asked, but we HAVE heard from the grandma "on scene" that night - but I've only see it on the reporter Pitts' Twitter so far and not in an article which may be why it's not been talked about...but it was from earlier this afternoon.



https://twitter.com/william_pitts/status/508027128974422016

Thanks so much, TBug!

somehow I missed that tweet....

Great catch! :thumb:

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I wonder the time difference from when Tania talk to the grandma and the 911 call. With Tania saying they took her, it might be she was thinking cps, and might of been on something to think that.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1409/04/ng.01.html

"TONI PAGE, GRANDMOTHER OF MURDERED GIRL: They took her, they took her. I won`t do anything bad anymore. They got Bella. And then the next minute their stories all change. Everybody had different stories."

1) Party at TG's house .. multiple friends attended, including JRR (perp).
2) Parties typically involve eating .. probably ate most if not all snacks in the house.
3) TG decides a trip to Walmart was necessary, to buy more snacks for her children's lunches.
4) They leave for Walmart, JRR stays behind to watch the kids. Grandma is upstairs, in bed.
5) Kids are playing hide and seek with JRR.
6) The older child takes a bathroom break, returns to an empty downstairs .. BG and JRR are gone.
7) Older child probably checks house possibly along with Grandma. No sign of BG.
8) Older child contacts TG at Walmart via phone, informs her of the situation.
9) TG and group return home to search.
10) RF dials 911 1:30 AM ..voice sounds low-key, almost nonchalant to what was happening.
11) LE arrive and interview occupants, learn from older child they were playing hide and seek with JRR.
12) LE danger light bulb goes off after learning JRR was on scene.
13) LE during searching for BG also search for JRR.
14) LE interviews outside witness, confirms seeing JRR travel from construction site toward Walmart.
15) LE travels the route and encounters JRR.
16) LE probably notices JRR wearing new clothing, shoes .. determines items were shoplifted from Walmart.
17) LE takes JRR in to custody for shoplifting.
18) LE learns more of the story and continues search for BG.
19) LE discovers body of BG, further interviews JRR.
20) JRR confesses or at least does not deny murdering BG, then requests lawyer.

It's most likely this simple: I suspect that evening TG did not want to inform LE she had left her children with JRR (bad mothering, bad choice, grounds for CPS removing children). JRR happened in to a crime of opportunity. Important questions would include if he had planned for such an opportunity. A clear-minded criminal would not take such an opportunity given that he could be placed at the scene. A mind scrambled through long-term drug use, on the other hand, would take any opportunity that would satisfy any desire.

 

[Fascinated1]

When did JJR take fb down? He's not out is he?

 

[jamiect]

RE: snacks/lunches

On the Justice for Bella fb page, Bella's elementary school teacher has posted. I will paraphrase what she has said. Bella has NEVER brought lunch or snacks to school and she has never met or spoken to TG.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/682551708503218/

Mods pls delete if not allowed.

ETA: posts are under the from fox10

 

[ClaireNC]

I wanted to address her saying "I can't believe this happened to me." Can you get more narcissistic?? She's the victim in this? Her 8 year old daughter was murdered by someone SHE brought into the house where her 8 year old daughter lived and should have been safe and this happened to HER? I know someone just like this, nothing every happened in anyone's life who is related to her that she didn't take it as a personal affront and wail that it happened to her and garnered all the attention.

I am not sticking up for her or blaming her in any way when I say this, but just adding some information to help understand the narcissism. There are certain personality traits or "character defects" that are common among people with drug and/or alcohol addictions. One of the most common traits is narcissism. That is not an excuse, just a fact.

Edit to add: Many addicts/alcoholics are also compulsive liars.

 

[alreetlike]

How long ago should it have been? A day? A week? A month? To some it might seem odd, but not everyone plays life to strict schedules and plans ahead days at a time.

They had just had friends over for a party. We might reasonably assume they ate snacks during the party and perhaps had devoured every last morsel .. and therefore, to keep her kids happy with surprises in their lunches she decided to trip on over to Wal-Mart to buy more snacks.

Most parents I know with school-aged children would prepare the next day's lunch during the day/evening before school and ensure the children were in bed at a reasonable time prior to going to school the next day. Not have friends round to eat food earmarked for the kids' lunches then run out in the middle of the night to buy replacement snacks while the children were still up and left in the company of others. JMO though... I evidently have a very different circle of friends to this crowd.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

RE: snacks/lunches

On the Justice for Bella fb page, Bella's elementary school teacher has posted. I will paraphrase what she has said. Bella has NEVER brought lunch or snacks to school and she has never met or spoken to TG.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/682551708503218/

Mods pls delete if not allowed.

ETA: posts are under the from fox10

There is an older child .. possible that lunch / snacks were for her, but doubtful.

SPECULATION FOLLOWS:

Really, the trip for "snacks" does seem hinky. Was it a really a trip to obtain cash? When they did not return in time with cash for JRR did he then decided to take payment in some other way? Had he been played too many times by certain individuals?

.. or ..

Is it only as simple as JRR is a sick criminal who opportunistically attacked a child?

 

[skibaboo]

They were buying "snacks for lunch" .. as per news report. As in, to include with their school lunches for the week. Nothing strange about it.

Except for the 90 minutes, which may have been more.. as per the 911 call they came back when they were called to advise Bella couldn't be found (paraphrasing), not when they were done.

The Walmart is 1 mile away. Tesco here is 1 mile away from my house. If I were to go at 11.30pm for snacks, I would be there and back in 15 minutes. I'm there and back in under an hour when I do a full shop! So I will agree to disagree, to me it is strange. MOO

 

[jamiect]

There is an older child .. possible that lunch / snacks were for her, but doubtful.

SPECULATION FOLLOWS:

Really, the trip for "snacks" does seem hinky. Was it a really a trip to obtain cash? When they did not return in time with cash for JRR did he then decided to take payment in some other way? Had he been played too many times by certain individuals?

.. or ..

Is it only as simple as JRR is a sick criminal who opportunistically attacked a child?

If what the teacher says is true, than it looks like Bella was on the free lunch program and I would assume that would apply to all siblings.

Your scenarios are quite possible, along with a multitude of others. Arrg

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Except for the 90 minutes, which may have been more.. as per the 911 call they came back when they were called to advise Bella couldn't be found (paraphrasing), not when they were done.

The Walmart is 1 mile away. Tesco here is 1 mile away from my house. If I were to go at 11.30pm for snacks, I would be there and back in 15 minutes. I'm there and back in under an hour when I do a full shop! So I will agree to disagree, to me it is strange. MOO

It was a party night ..hanging out for an extended period while also completing a task is not so unusual. We've gone to the 24/7 to pick up a few things in the middle of the night but did not return home immediately as sometimes we hang around in the warm evening weather or drive and chat to relax. There are reasonable scenarios that might explain the extended trip time.

 

[jamiect]

Maureen, just a heads up, I don't think you can copy quotes from fb. You can paraphrase.

 

[skibaboo]

It was a party night ..hanging out for an extended period while also completing a task is not so unusual. We've gone to the 24/7 to pick up a few things in the middle of the night but did not return home immediately as sometimes we hang around in the warm evening weather or drive and chat to relax. There are reasonable scenarios that might explain the extended trip time.

Oh yeah, sure of course. I know I've done it, but I don't have kids, especially 2 young girls who are either at home with a sleeping grandma, or at home with a sleeping grandma and a guy who likes to strangle pets.. Just saying.