Deceased/Not Found AZ - Jhessye Shockley, 5, Glendale, 11 Oct 2011 - #3 *J. Hunter guilty*

[Mgorules]

It is extremely rare for a child in foster care in Maricopa County to continue attending the school they attended while in their parents' care. The parents would not be told the name or location of the new school and would not be on the list of people authorized to pick up the kids.

Annnnd, that's why you're the attorney, and I'm not:blushing:

I (thankfully) have no experience in this arena, and didn't even think about those precautions. I'm happy that she probably doesn't know where they are then.

Thanks AZLawyer

 

[Marigold]

It is extremely rare for a child in foster care in Maricopa County to continue attending the school they attended while in their parents' care. The parents would not be told the name or location of the new school and would not be on the list of people authorized to pick up the kids.

AZLawyer, I am so glad you are here! I hope you don't mind more questions: Generally speaking, when a child is in foster care, can the other relatives (grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc) visit them? Would they need a court order to do so or can they just call up CPS and request visits? Is it possible that Jerice's father could visit these children? Also, iirc, Jerice had visitation with the new baby. Would her arrest have any effect on those visits?
Thanks so much for your help

 

[CarrieBean]

AZLawyer, I am so glad you are here! I hope you don't mind more questions: Generally speaking, when a child is in foster care, can the other relatives (grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc) visit them? Would they need a court order to do so or can they just call up CPS and request visits? Is it possible that Jerice's father could visit these children? Also, iirc, Jerice had visitation with the new baby. Would her arrest have any effect on those visits?
Thanks so much for your help

I hope the whole family is kept in the dark as to where the kids are. I know there are some family members who loved Jhessye dearly, but until it's known which family members can truly be trusted it's not worth the risk of JH finding out IMO.

 

[AZlawyer]

AZLawyer, I am so glad you are here! I hope you don't mind more questions: Generally speaking, when a child is in foster care, can the other relatives (grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc) visit them? Would they need a court order to do so or can they just call up CPS and request visits? Is it possible that Jerice's father could visit these children? Also, iirc, Jerice had visitation with the new baby. Would her arrest have any effect on those visits?
Thanks so much for your help

The court can order or prohibit relative visits, but absent a court order one way or the other, CPS can arrange visits if such visits appear to be in the best interests of the children. If there is any question of safety, the visits are supervised at a "neutral" location, normally a CPS office--not at the foster homes. In this case, I suspect CPS will want a court order (yes or no) for all relative visits to avoid being blamed for any more mistakes.

In this case, it is my understanding that the grandma (Shirley) has legal rights to the 4 kids in foster care, so it is her (not Jerice) from whom the children were "taken" for purposes of the CPS file. The initial case plan, by law, will be to return the children to Shirley (the legal "mother"). Therefore, she, at least, will have to be given visits (supervised and at the CPS office I'm sure). My understanding is that she is no longer with the grandfather, so it will be tough for him to arrange visits unless he is offering to be a placement for the kids.

Jerice has parental rights to the new baby, and the case plan will be to return that baby to her, so there will be visits with the baby (supervised and at the CPS office hopefully!). An arrest and release would have no effect on visitation.

 

[AZlawyer]

Of course, if grandma lives in California, it is possible that the older kids will be transferred to California foster homes (and the case transferred to California CPS) to work on the "plan" to reunify with grandma.

 

[Knox]

Of course, if grandma lives in California, it is possible that the older kids will be transferred to California foster homes (and the case transferred to California CPS) to work on the "plan" to reunify with grandma.

How scary is that idea?

 

[luckygirl]

I would love for it to be true that nobody was willing to pick her up from the jail AND she walked all the way home to find out she has been evicted. :rocker:

And let me tell you, the lower buckeye jail is in a VERY BAD part of town......you know it's bad when you are driving in your car and you make sure the doors are locked....lol

 

[Patty G]

I am SHOCKED to read she has been released from jail! Actually makes me sick to my stomach. :furious:

 

[Coldpizza]

whoops wrong thread!

 

[tlcya]

I hope the whole family is kept in the dark as to where the kids are. I know there are some family members who loved Jhessye dearly, but until it's known which family members can truly be trusted it's not worth the risk of JH finding out IMO.

and I am pretty certain the ones who raised and loved Jhessye totally get that. Not to mention that no one in the family should have access to them, including the AZ cousins, in part, to insure that it can not be suggested that the kids were coerced into alleging untrue things about their mom or into not teklling the truth about their mom, depending on which side of the family we are talking about accessing the kids.

They should for sure, be kept from the entire family til this mess is sorted out.

ETA I sure am hoping they are taking this very active open investigation in to account when deciding if and when anyone gets access to these kids. Period.

 

[Velouria]

Of course, if grandma lives in California, it is possible that the older kids will be transferred to California foster homes (and the case transferred to California CPS) to work on the "plan" to reunify with grandma.

This is a horrifying thought, AZ!

What if there is evidence that she unlawfully turned those children over to Jerice and kept collecting those checks? Would that be enough for the court to grant an injunction preventing those children from being removed from their current placements?

 

[Columbo]

Too bad they couldn't have her tubes tied (if they aren't now) before releasing her from jail. If she goes out and starts doing drugs, you know she's going to end up pregnant again.

 

[AZlawyer]

This is a horrifying thought, AZ!

What if there is evidence that she unlawfully turned those children over to Jerice and kept collecting those checks? Would that be enough for the court to grant an injunction preventing those children from being removed from their current placements?

It wouldn't be enough to keep them in the current (AZ) foster placements--but certainly it would be enough to place them in California foster placements. (Not because of the checks, but because Shirley gave the kids to a known child abuser.)

 

[menmo]

She could easily go to their school(s) and pull them out if they weren't forewarned I'm so frightened for them right now. I really don't care what happens to Jerice, but I want to know that those children are being protected like they should have been all along. These poor kids are going to sleep with one eye open for the rest fo their lives-- who can they trust? I realize I'm getting slightly ahead of myself, maybe AZ will keep these kids safe this time. :twocents:

That is one of my worries, too. I'm sure the school's will be alerted but will they protect them well enough? God, I pray they do.

I feel this is why so much mental, physical, and sexual abuse goes without being reported. They are afraid and then find the courage to tell and are sent back into the lions den because it can't be proved by the standards the state or whomever has set. A child learns to not trust anyone. They can't trust the abuser and they can't trust someone else can get them out of there safely and keep them out. Some may say I'm wrong but I always believe a child over an adult. Yes, I am aware that some kids are troubled and make up things. I also realize though, that adults do the same. If I have to err I will always err on the side of a child that can't protect themselves.

I am old enough to not want to have hate in my heart for anyone but these cases push me to feel just that sometimes.

 

[lonetraveler]

I am SHOCKED to read she has been released from jail! Actually makes me sick to my stomach. :furious:

Actually I was hoping that one of the people who loved and cherished Jhessye would have picked up Jerice. :crazy:

 

[tlcya]

lol @lonetraveler, if the FB pages are any indication, there are some locals who bandied that thought about. Obviously not seriously but the outrage was pretty intense.

I am still hopeful that our esteemed attorney experts are correct and that either they are gathering evidence to go to a GJ, or that this is simply maneuvering to withhold the states evidence against her til their case is rock solid. In other words, I am truly hoping this is a very temporary setback with a very satisfying permanent solution on the horizon.

 

[EllaMae]

I'm trying to figure that out. I'm thinking because the evidence of abuse is related to a possible charge of murder and they would rather not lay their
evidence out at a child abuse trial, before they conduct a murder trial.

Guys, this could be a clue that something more intense is coming down the pike for this beast. Fingers crossed.

It's so nice to have a legal expert on WS to help us understand these kinds of issues. Thanks for your input!
I guess I just don't get why they'd arrest her for child abuse if they didn't plan to charge her within the legal time frame?????
I wonder what their strategy was all along....to charge her for murdering Jhessye at some point after charging her with abuse?
Were they hoping she'd break down in jail and confess?

My first thought was that the 13 year old is too fragile to testify against her mother in court face to face....so they were waiting on forensics to back her up.


This case is just so disheartening.

 

[gitana1]

They couldn't drop these charges later, but keep her in jail as if they were still pursing the abuse charge?

I'm hoping that this means they are SO close to arresting her for murder that they don't even want to deal with the hassle of consolidating the cases down the road?? I don't know... I doubt there's any "if we follow her around she might lead us to the body" strategy in this case, as there's no reason to think she wouldn't have done that sometime in the last month if she were going to.

Gitana's idea makes sense also, but only if they think the murder charges are NOT going to be filed for quite a while, and only if there's some evidence being held back that they don't want Jerice to know about yet.

ETA: (I misread) This is what I think. They don't want to expose Jerice to the evidence they have against her. It does take a while to build a strong, triable murder case. My feeling is their case just began to take better shape but it is not completely ready yet to present.

For anyone who may not know, the state has to obligation to release "discovery" or their evidence, to the defendant prior to trial. I think they don't want this con finding a way to con her way out of what they have.

lawyer question: why arrest her in the first place? (re: why not wait if they had all the information from the children)

could it have been to let her know that they are on her 6 (as we say in the military)?

Different things are going on behind the scenes. Perhaps LE decided to arrest her for the child abuse but the DA said, "Hey, can we wait on that? Seems we may have enough soon to charge her with murder." I do doubt that though, because I think LE and the DA are in almost perfect sync. I think LE would not have arrested her without the prior knowledge and approval of the DA.

But they may have changed their mind about strategy. Maybe someone else came in on the scene and thought the child abuse arrest was not a good idea until they are fully prepared for a murder charge.

It might mean that we have a bit more of a wait. I'm not sure. But someone might have decided they did not want to waste resources on a child abuse charge when they have something better coming.

The clock begins to tick once Jerice is charged, speedy trial rights and all that. Perhaps someone just changed their minds. Perhaps the murder case just became a lot stronger so they thought they would wait for that one to be ready to present to the DA. We'll see but I am not discouraged by this. It is not a bad sign to me.

The only thing that bothers me is any second of freedom that the monster Jerice gets to enjoy right now. I really loved the thought of her choking on Arpaio's jail food!

 

[lonetraveler]

lol @lonetraveler, if the FB pages are any indication, there are some locals who bandied that thought about. Obviously not seriously but the outrage was pretty intense.

I am still hopeful that our esteemed attorney experts are correct and that either they are gathering evidence to go to a GJ, or that this is simply maneuvering to withhold the states evidence against her til their case is rock solid. In other words, I am truly hoping this is a very temporary setback with a very satisfying permanent solution on the horizon.

I've been reading that particular FB page and your posts as well as the other family members. There is a lot of anger and hurt there. I feel for the ones who have lost this little innocent girl. I hope this woman gets what she deserves, one way or another.

 

[katydid23]

How could the older kids be reunited with Grandma Shirley? She is the one who illegally gave them back to an abusive mother. Why would they be sent there? UUGGHHHHH