GUILTY AZ - Six killed, 13 injured in shooting at Gabrielle Giffords event, 8 Jan 2011 - #1

[alwayslooking]

respectfully snipped and BBM

That's what I'd like to know, Herding Cats.

The suspect had multiple arrests and STILL managed to pass an FBI background check. WTF? Seems that if the parents had indeed sought psychiatric help for him there would be some sort of red flag preventing a firearm purchase. The fact that this obviously disturbed young man was able to legally buy a gun scares the bejeebers out of me.

The man had NO convictions so he had a right to own a gun! We cannot start trying to predict who will go off and starting killing people.

My husband has a terrible brain injury, he cannot drive, I take care of him....last year he decided he wanted a new gun, it would have been easy to put it in my name, but he wanted his right to have it in his own name! He was able to buy acouple of new gun's, and he deserve's that right!

 

[Steely Dan]

The man had NO convictions so he had a right to own a gun! We cannot start trying to predict who will go off and starting killing people.

My husband has a terrible brain injury, he cannot drive, I take care of him....last year he decided he wanted a new gun, it would have been easy to put it in my name, but he wanted his right to have it in his own name! He was able to buy acouple of new gun's, and he deserve's that right!

I think they're saying that if his parents had tried to get him psychological help he may have been diagnosed with schizophrenia and unable to purchase a gun.

Your husbands story is much different. I'm assuming he's not violent and hasn't been thrown out of school and told he can only come back after psychiatric evaluation.

IMO, that type of person shouldn't be able to buy a gun.

 

[raeann]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/ap_on_he_me/us_med_congresswoman_brain_injury

Doctors are optimistic for survival, but recovery could take months/years.

Can she still represent her Congressional district?

I believe there is a definitive period of time that a representative can be absent for illness, etc. After that period of time a new election would be held. In the House of Representatives, there is no provision for the appointment of a replacement, it is done by special election.

 

[oh_gal]

I am heartsick over what happened to this poor little girl. I saw her dad on the Today Show this morning, and ever since, I have been unable to get her, or her family out of my mind. People -- children -- are killed every day in countless, senseless ways, whether by disease, accidents, or much more sinister means -- and I don't mean to detract from the pain those other families are going through. But I really feel this family's pain, for some reason. There's no way I would have been able to sit on TV today like her father did. What a strong man he is.

 

[alwayslooking]

I think they're saying that if his parents had tried to get him psychological help he may have been diagnosed with schizophrenia and unable to purchase a gun.

Your husbands story is much different. I'm assuming he's not violent and hasn't been thrown out of school and told he can only come back after psychiatric evaluation.

IMO, that type of person shouldn't be able to buy a gun.

My point is when we start saying people that have never been convicted of a crime, no involuntary committed.....so when do we decide who should have children and who shouldn't!
My husband has a front lobe injury, with his medication's he does well but without them yes he could be violent, and because his behavior is odd sometime's, people get nervous with him!
This shooting is so near to my heart, it is almost like reliving what happened to us....I don't want to give the shooter any rights but in the same breath, I want to protect the right to own a gun!

 

[Herding Cats]

All I was meaning to say was where were the folks who were supposed to get him help if he needed it?

And on the other hand, he was over the age of 18, and could've refused help if it was offered.

It is notoriously difficult to get someone who is mentally ill help without them getting it themselves. It's almost impossible, and because of that, it's very difficult to treat effectively someone who may be seriously mentally ill.

As for why he was able to buy a gun, he did not have a criminal record which would preclude him having one. It was a legal buy, and the FBI background check was passed, and there were no holes in the system that this guy slipped through.

The real question I have is what is this guy's mental health record? We're hearing stories about how he was tossed out of college, and how he was kinda "odd" in high school. I wonder where the people were who didn't catch this...and why they didn't catch it.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[burbqueen]

I dont know what to say. I saw a dateline special about the shootings. The shooter is not working with the police and they said that they think he is mentally ill for sure and friends and family knew this guy was unstable.

 

[OneLove]

All I was meaning to say was where were the folks who were supposed to get him help if he needed it?

And on the other hand, he was over the age of 18, and could've refused help if it was offered.

It is notoriously difficult to get someone who is mentally ill help without them getting it themselves. It's almost impossible, and because of that, it's very difficult to treat effectively someone who may be seriously mentally ill.

As for why he was able to buy a gun, he did not have a criminal record which would preclude him having one. It was a legal buy, and the FBI background check was passed, and there were no holes in the system that this guy slipped through.

The real question I have is what is this guy's mental health record? We're hearing stories about how he was tossed out of college, and how he was kinda "odd" in high school. I wonder where the people were who didn't catch this...and why they didn't catch it.Best-
Herding Cats

Well, reports from his 'friends' show that they were "sketched out" by his recent behaviors and had started backing off. Reports were also that he smoked pot about daily. That would probably leave his 'friends' in a delicate position, advocacy-wise.

Also, this kid lived at home with parents, two of them, I believe. When you put that together with smoking pot daily AND his rantings, I'd say that there was a great deal of either denial of his mental issues OR complicity with his mental issues. I'm leaning toward one of those, given what was reported about his home environment. :waitasec:

 

[burbqueen]

Amen Herding Cats, your post are what I've been thinking. You cannot stop someone without a criminal record from buying a gun. He has that right. I personally have a problem with gun laws, but that's me.

The guy is over the age of 18, so you cannot force him to take meds or to get help, but what you can do is stop enabling them and acting like mental illness is something to be hidden.i'm not saying his parents did this, but so often parents are in denial and its obvious this man has had mental issues since he was younger than 18.

Smoking weed really means nothing IMO. Many people smoke it and arent depressed or mentally ill.

There is a documentary I saw about mentally ill criminals and its real sad. Where do they turn for help? its really sad. I kinda wish we still had state mental hospitals

 

[alwayslooking]

Herding, I think you said it best, if a person doesn't want to get help or understand they have a problem, then there is no way to force help unless they are proven to be a danger to themself's or others.
I do not believe that this is political, or race based or that he has any tie's to any groups, he is just that odd guy (we all know one), that may or may not strike! He is probably enjoying all this attention he is getting!
When something like this happen's, we tend to over react......gun laws, mental health issue's, new law's.....we just need to enforce what laws we already have!

 

[LinasK]

By JACQUES BILLEAUD, Associated Press Jacques Billeaud, Associated Press – 19 mins ago
At a Tucson hospital, Giffords, 40, remained in intensive care Monday after being shot in the head at close range.
Neurosurgeon Dr. Michael LeMole of Tucson's University Medical Center, said her condition is stable. The swelling in Giffords' brain has not been increasing, as typically occurs during the first three days of such an injury.
"That's why we are much more optimistic and we can breathe a collective sigh of relief after about the third day," he told reporters.
He said there are other good signs. The track of bullet is away from the nerves. "Not only are those centers of the brain working but they're communicating with one another."
LeMole said Giffords is still responding to commands to squeeze hands, move her toes, etc.
Of those injured in the deadly shooting Saturday in Tucson, eight are still hospitalized. One is in critical condition, five are in serious condition, and two are in good condition.

more at link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congr...lYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3N1c3BlY3RpbmF0dA--

 

[burbqueen]

yeah I dont think this guy was part of any kinda group. Just paranoid, sick, and just out to hurt someone. His rantings online about the government and people out to get him etc was just confusing and full of weird rantings about nonsense.

Someone asked who care? Well I do! I like knowing what makes a person do evil things. it helps level the playing field and tells me who to avoid at work.

 

[LinasK]

Posted: Jan 10, 2011 10:59 AM
Updated: Jan 10, 2011 11:33 AMTUCSON - Rep. Gabrielle Giffords continues to follow simple commands given by UMC trauma doctors as she enters her second day of post-operation treatment.
"No change is good - and we have no change," says UMC brain surgeon Dr. Michael Lemole. "We're not out of the woods yet."
Giffords is showing doctors her thumb, gripping the doctor's hand, and wriggling her toes on command, Lemole says. She is still connected to a breathing tube, and Dr. Peter Rhee says it will at least four to five days before that is removed, and a more complex assessment of Giffords' functioning is made.
The third day of post-operation treatment is when brain swelling typically peaks, Lemole says. But with a "window" of Giffords' skull missing, her brain is relaxed, and there is no sign of building pressure.
Lemole says his team "can breathe a collective sigh of relief after the third day."
Eight survivors of Saturday's tragic shooting remain at UMC - two in the Intensive Care Unit, five people are in serious condition, and two are in good condition. Only Giffords remains in critical condition, says Dr. Rhee, trauma director.
more at link: http://www.kvoa.com/news/giffords-responsive-condition-unchanged/

 

[LinasK]

Retired Army Colonel Helped Subdue Gunman, Bullet Grazed the Back of His Head

4 comments
By JESSICA HOPPER, KEVIN DOLAK and LAUREN SHER

Jan. 10, 2011
A 74-year-old retired Army colonel decided to tackle the Tucson gunman after watching him shoot a little girl. "Something had to be done," Bill Badger said today on "Good Morning America."
Badger wasn't the only one who risked his life to stop the carnage. One man clobbered alleged gunman Jared Loughner on the back of the head with a folding chair. A 61-year-old woman wrestled a fresh magazine away from Loughner as he tried to reload.
Others jumped on him and held him down, ripping the gun from his hands.

more at link:http://abcnews.go.com/US/heroes-rep...ting-tucson-arizona-subdued/story?id=12580345

 

[sorrell skye]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/feds_probing_whether_arizona_shooter_3EDGLosRIhYqU1IdKUt0uM

Multiple federal agencies are now doing a joint assessment to see if accused Arizona killer Jared Lee Loughner has any possible link to the several fiery packages that were sent to the head of the Homeland Security Department and Maryland state officials last week, The Post has learned.

 

[alwayslooking]

yeah I dont think this guy was part of any kinda group. Just paranoid, sick, and just out to hurt someone. His rantings online about the government and people out to get him etc was just confusing and full of weird rantings about nonsense.

Someone asked who care? Well I do! I like knowing what makes a person do evil things. it helps level the playing field and tells me who to avoid at work.

LMBO....I think I said who care's, what I mean by that is no reason could be good enough! I always follow my instinct, if someone does not stay at a social distance from me, I avoid them! I have always had compassion for the mentally ill, however there is just pure evil!

 

[LinasK]

Excellent article on her prognosis:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/10/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-gunshot-wound

 

[mankato64]

Shrine found in tent in Loughner's backyard by KTAR.com (January 10th, 2011 @ 9:19am)

WWW.ktar.com

We're putting up a dedicated live stream through our Ustream account of the UMC vigil. Stand by for that. just tweeted from www.kold.com

Good afternoon hope everyone is having an o.k. day.

Busy day here in Phoenix w/ the hearing at 2pm and the national BCS championship tonight. Traffic is crazy downtown and I saw tons of police while driving to campus to pay my tuition.

Stay safe.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/feds_probing_whether_arizona_shooter_3EDGLosRIhYqU1IdKUt0uM

Multiple federal agencies are now doing a joint assessment to see if accused Arizona killer Jared Lee Loughner has any possible link to the several fiery packages that were sent to the head of the Homeland Security Department and Maryland state officials last week, The Post has learned.

I am not surprised at all ss! JLL had an obsession/fixation on words, grammar and the person who sent those pkgs included a letter blasting them about HWY alert signs.

I also wonder if those flashing signs triggered some type of episode into mental illness. I am not really educated on the subject but I do know that outside stimulation can affect some types of MI. Is there anyone here with knowledge about such things?

MOO

wm

 

[burbqueen]

wow, i cant believe this may be the same guy. Im just shocked! Well I hope it is.

Yeah there are people who are "evil", but I see a lot of mentally ill folks walking around. We've all been to school with that one girl or guy that just wasnt too right in the head. Or even at work. Shoot, i've even dated a few guys who now that I think about it probably were mentally ill. Scary.