AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[colette]

Going back to how long it took for the neighbors to know there were murders, probably very fast as Mr Romans was laying right out in the open. They may have seen him from the window or just looking out the door.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Going back to how long it took for the neighbors to know there were murders, probably very fast as Mr Romans was laying right out in the open. They may have seen him from the window or just looking out the door.

If that is a possibility, then why didn't anyone call 911?

 

[Trino]

It seems like the majority of posters here are on the side of the boy and believe he is innocent. I am on the side of OBE, and the few others who think he DID do it. Now if he turns out innocent, I'll be happy to say I'm wrong. IMO LE has no reason to frame up or set up an 8 y/o kid.

So let's say he DID do it and is convicted and serves 5 years juvie. He'll be 14 (since he is almost 9 now) or so when he gets out. Are you all ready for him to live next door or have him sit next to your kid at school? Or he serves less than 10 and he'll be out and attending college or out in the workforce, do you want him with your kids hanging out? Coming over to visit? In 15 years he might be getting married, would you let him date your daughter? All hypothetical, but even if he WAS abused, would you want him with your kids? Knowing he has previously "snapped"? He'll likely come out with a sealed record and possibly a new identity. (IMO no one should ever have a sealed record if they have committed a violent crime, especially murder.) Just food for thought.

I'm with you, too. Like everyone else, I don't know what should be done with the boy, but I would not wish to take a chance with him, knowing that he had previously killed two people. I agree that a crime like this should not be sealed.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I'm with you, too. Like everyone else, I don't know what should be done with the boy, but I would not wish to take a chance with him, knowing that he had previously killed two people. I agree that a crime like this should not be sealed.

No, I wouldn't want him dating or marrying one of my great granddaughters. I wouldn't want him hanging out with my great grandkids either. It would scare me to death...this is if he is guilty and I think that he is. If he did this there is something terribly wrong with him and I wouldn't be willing to take a chance with my loved ones.

 

[colette]

If that is a possibility, then why didn't anyone call 911?

I am talking about when the neighbor called 911. The kid tells the neighbors about deaths at his home, they don't have to run over.. they might just look out and see. I'm saying it didn't take long to verify, the dead man was in the front yard.

I think that is one reason why the boy decided to tell the neighbors. Mr Romans was not going to stay undiscovered for long. Remember the home and the area where he was laying was very close to the road.

 

[hannahsnana]

I am not on a "side", but for those who have so vehemently decided that this boy did not commit these shootings, would you welcome him into your home with your own children, then? Just askin'.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think if this child did not commit these crimes, it is going to be a very long time before he recovers from the trauma he has gone through being accused on top of his father being murdered in front of him.

He is going to need extensive counseling either way. Do I consider him now, "damaged goods" tho?! No. No more than I would consider any child at 8 years old who felt they were at their wit's end and had no one to turn to so they committed an act they had no real knowledge of the consequence for. I consider this a tragedy.

Yes. I would take him home with me in an instant! I would also give him all the support, love, and counseling he needs to heal to become a productive, well-adjusted adult someday.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Quote
If he did this there is something terribly wrong with him and I wouldn't be willing to take a chance with my loved ones.

I do understand this.But what provoked or caused him to behave this way?What led up to this?I do repeat myself here alot.I mean no disrespect here but I strongly believe children learn what they live.There is a saying the apple don't fall too far from the tree.There is also a song called the cats in the cradle that says in the song "And as I hung up the phone it occurred to me.He'd grown up just like me.My boy was just like me."That might not be the case here.But it makes me very aware my children are watching and learning from me and I am not perfect.

 

[gitana1]

This is one where I'm somewhat on the fence as far as guilt or innocence. In the interview, he did seem led and manipulated, especially since there were two adults against an 8 year old little boy. However, his responses did seem to be those of someone who feels he has been caught. LE suggests that if he shot the gun, residue would appear on his hands. Kid then says, "Well, I think I shot the gun." Etc. To me, a normal response, even for a little boy, would be: "Well, I did not shoot the gun, so there's no residue on me." However, some posters make sense when they state if he was always accused of lying then he may say what he thinks LE wants to hear because he is used to doing that. Then there is trauma, etc., and a huge history of false confessions in general, by adults. So, if adults can be swayed to give a false confession, I think a kid would be even more easily swayed. I'm also not buying LE's statement that the child was not a suspect when he walked in the room. Their opening comments to him and complete lack of surprise when he admits to having shot the gun, no changes in tone or body language, tell me they knew what they were there for. It was too smooth a transition in the questioning from "He knows who did it." to, "He did it." Not buying it. I just don't know what to think, though I lean towards the child doing it. Then comes the question, why? I lean more towards some sort of abuse than sociopathy in this case. That is due to the little we know so far: Kid keeping a log of times he was hit, possible CPS contact prior, Dad directing step-mom to spank him for forgetting homework, mom stating step-mom always listened in on her conversations with the child (in my family law experience, that is a definite control issue), grandma saying they were too hard on the boy, child having no apparent history of behavioral problems prior, or issues in school, child possibly wandering around after school instead of coming straight home, and finally, the fact that virutally all children under a certain age who commit parricide have been severely abused by their parents.
As far as whether I would want this child living next to me or dating my daughter in the future? Well, obviously, if he is a sociopath, I would not want either. Although there may be new research that indicates that children who are sociopaths may be amenable to treatment, I don't think the mental health world has that licked enough for me to feel safe around any sociopath, especially one who killed. If the child is not a sociopath, but instead, killed due to abuse, I would still not want my daughter marrying him due to issues he may have from the abuse and PTSD from the killings. I say this having suffered trauma myself and dealing with certain psychological issues as a result. That may seem unfair, but I'd rather my kids deal with somone free of ANY baggage. That would include other issues as well, like children from a prior relationship.
Would I want him living next door to me if he was an abuse survivor who snapped? Probably, and also unfairly, no. But that's because I can be paranoid. My paranoia should not dictate whether society gives such a child a second chance. But, I will say I'd much rather live next to such a person than next to the hundreds of pedophiles who live in my city. And finally, I will end with the story of Larry Swartz, who brutally murdered his parents and came out of prison, with apparently virtually no therapy, an amazing, loving person. Here's a link: http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-18711.
What the link does not say is that Larry actually admitted doing something disgusting to his mother's body after he killed her. Yet, this kid turned out wonderful. There were lots of reasons why he did what he did and remember, children, especially traumatized ones, cannot reason the way adults do. They are impulsive and do not foresee consequences so they cannot be held accountable in the way that adults are. Case in point: If a 5 year old is caught stealing from the store, he is told the error of his actions, is made to return the item to the store with an apology, and is punished in some way by his parents. If an adult steals from the store, he or she is arrested. There is a reason for the difference in treatment.
The point I am trying to make is, with children there is always hope. There must be.

 

[gitana1]

[Snipped]
Do I consider him now, "damaged goods" tho?! No. No more than I would consider any child at 8 years old who felt they were at their wit's end and had no one to turn to so they committed an act they had no real knowledge of the consequence for. I consider this a tragedy.

Yes. I would take him home with me in an instant! I would also give him all the support, love, and counseling he needs to heal to become a productive, well-adjusted adult someday.

Seriously Searching, I admire you for your statement. If we had more people like you, we would have less tragedies like this one.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Seriously Searching, I admire you for your statement. If we had more people like you, we would have less tragedies like this one.

I have alot of respect for you too.You are good people.
suzanne

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Awww, thanks both of you. I wish we had less tragedies like this one. We see it too often where something goes horribly wrong in a young life when it could have been prevented.

Seriously Searching, I admire you for your statement. If we had more people like you, we would have less tragedies like this one.

I have alot of respect for you too.You are good people.
suzanne

Hugs, Suzanne~

 

[chicagofa13]

I think if this child did not commit these crimes, it is going to be a very long time before he recovers from the trauma he has gone through being accused on top of his father being murdered in front of him.

He is going to need extensive counseling either way. Do I consider him now, "damaged goods" tho?! No. No more than I would consider any child at 8 years old who felt they were at their wit's end and had no one to turn to so they committed an act they had no real knowledge of the consequence for. I consider this a tragedy.

Yes. I would take him home with me in an instant! I would also give him all the support, love, and counseling he needs to heal to become a productive, well-adjusted adult someday.

I am asking my question based on him doing it and there was NO abuse. Not a kid at his "wit's end". If that makes any difference.

To the other posters who said they wouldn't let him in or around their kids, thanks for being honest.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

He is going to need extensive counseling either way. Do I consider him now, "damaged goods" tho?! No.

~snip~

Yes. I would take him home with me in an instant! I would also give him all the support, love, and counseling he needs to heal to become a productive, well-adjusted adult someday.

And I answered accordingly.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

There has been no "proof" of abuse due to the fact tht a gag order was issued and a psychologist ordered for evaluation. There is a difference that we cannot ignore. What has been given through the media and what the Court has chosen for this child.

I do not think it is unfair to be on the fence when thinking of where this child is, how he got there, and the reasons why. There are so many dynamics to this tragic case that we will not be allowed to discuss further until legal/court decide otherwise. The best we can do is toss out our thoughts and opinions with what is out there. I believe there is more to this. At this point in time I still will not toss this child aside as hopeless.
IMVHO

 

[chicagofa13]

There has been no "proof" of abuse due to the fact tht a gag order was issued and a psychologist ordered for evaluation. There is a difference that we cannot ignore. What has been given through the media and what the Court has chosen for this child.

I do not think it is unfair to be on the fence when thinking of where this child is, how he got there, and the reasons why. There are so many dynamics to this tragic case that we will not be allowed to discuss further until legal/court decide otherwise. The best we can do is toss out our thoughts and opinions with what is out there. I believe there is more to this. At this point in time I still will not toss this child aside as hopeless.
IMVHO

I respect your right to feel this way about the boy. I just don't think those of us who disagree should be labeled as bad or uncaring people.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm with you Chicago... I wouldn't want that kid anywhere near me or my loved ones.

As far as where stepmom was during the murders, I'm sure that LE has checked that out.
Grandma knew this boy for 8 years, maybe there was something she noticed in his behavior when he was cuddling up that night. Maybe he seemed happy.

The family members are the first to be check out. This was a very small town and I am sure they have long established her alibi as valid. They said when she arrived on scene that the boy ran to her, hugged her and cried. They had to know where to contact her to let her know her world had just been turned upside down.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I respect your right to feel this way about the boy. I just don't think those of us who disagree should be labeled as bad or uncaring people.

I agree. I just do not see anything that points to this boy's innocence.

Mrs. Romans was on the phone with her husband at 4:52 pm, he told her he was at Vince's house and Vince had just gone inside. A few minutes later she hears the boy calling to her husband to come into the home and Tim tells her he has to go. At around 5:00 pm, 4 pops with a delay each time are heard and 911 is called minutes after.

There is no one in that home at the time but the boy, Vince and Tim imo. One walked away totally unharmed and two were dead.

I don't want him to be guilty but I truly think he is, imo.

imoo

 

[chicagofa13]

I agree. I just do not see anything that points to this boy's innocence.

Mrs. Romans was on the phone with her husband at 4:52 pm, he told her he was at Vince's house and Vince had just gone inside. A few minutes later she hears the boy calling to her husband to come into the home and Tim tells her he has to go. At around 5:00 pm, 4 pops with a delay each time are heard and 911 is called minutes after.

There is no one in that home at the time but the boy, Vince and Tim imo. One walked away totally unharmed and two were dead.

I don't want him to be guilty but I truly think he is, imo.

imoo

Exactly. What is worse than having a kid be a murderer and sent off to jail or juvie? Not much.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am talking about when the neighbor called 911. The kid tells the neighbors about deaths at his home, they don't have to run over.. they might just look out and see. I'm saying it didn't take long to verify, the dead man was in the front yard.

I think that is one reason why the boy decided to tell the neighbors. Mr Romans was not going to stay undiscovered for long. Remember the home and the area where he was laying was very close to the road.

Right, they didn't have to get real close to see Tim's body laying there by the ivy bush with his head toward the screen metal door. I am sure he told them Tim was on the porch.

Heck it didn't even take the police but a couple of minutes to get to the scene.

I think he had to get the heck out of that house. He couldn't just stay there inside with the body outside and his father inside. Everyone in that neighborhood knew when the bus ran and when he gets in from school. I am sure some of his friends ride the same bus he did.

imo