GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #1

[Curious Me]

Here's an interesting song title from TS the "baller".

Tommy Exx - Look What You Made Me Do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiXNqHOJzjI&list=UU18-mwMpTyxq7yfw60oojWQ

Lots of interesting comments at that link too. Doesn't look like he's getting any love from his "homies".

You can also see his other videos by clicking on his name and going through his account.

Wanted to thank you for sharing that link.

IMO, that video of him with the blow-up doll was weird then, but now it's downright eerie. What he took part in is so awful. Nobody, not even his old friends, are ever going to see him as a "kool" baller ever again.

MOO, the word "stupid" will forever be attached to his name when old friends & homies talk about him.
Murderer will be another word likely attached to his name.

 

[Marg from Oz]

I wonder if Sheila’s brother is the executor of her estate, and as such has control over her money and how it is distributed.
Sheila probably made someone else the facilitator of any monies to go toward HM’s care and welfare – imo - particularly with her stormy relationship with her daughter and her daughter’s immaturity.

Attorney Michael D Elkin may be finding that no-one is going to fund his trip to Bali or foot his legal bills.
I had the same thought. I guess mum organized and paid him previous times. He is probably waiting to see if there is any money to pay him before comitt
He sure is taking a looonnng time to rush to his client's side. It has been 10 days since their arrest ...... :waiting:

My thoughts as well. Mum would have been the one hiring and paying him in previous times. He is probably investigating if there is any money available to pay him before committing to travelling to Bali. No money.....she'll be on her own and have to eventually talk to the Balinese lawyer. I wonder if she was planning on having the American lawyer represent the boyfriend too.

 

[rollinginit]

I'm trying to understand the money trail. The lawsuit was filed in 2001. It was settled in 2006, the same year that James Mack died. In 2005 and 2006, he was probably anticipating the settlement, and took out mortgages on the property for $384,000. Sheila received $340,000 in the Will, but that was not enough to cover the mortgage debt. If she and her husband had taken almost $400,000 out of the value of the property in two years, they were probably living the high life for those two years. Five years later, 2011, she was paid the remaining $500,000 from the estate as the sole beneficiary.

If the spending habits of 2005-06 continued through 2007-08, then the house would have been fully mortgaged two years after his death. The $340,000 in the Will would have covered another two years of living with those same spending habits, taking them to 2010. At that time, the house value and the $340,000 would be gone. In 2011, the remaining $500,000 was given to Sheila. In 2013 the house was sold and an apartment was purchased (probably with a mortgage). With spending habits of $150-200k annually, I doubt that there was much left of the estate in 2014. It's also possible that Sheila cut back her expenses, but given the hotel in Bali (rooms from $500-$8000 per night), I doubt it.

"Around $500,000 of the money went to her husband's estate and was designated for their daughter through an earlier will. But in 2011, a judge allowed Ms von Weise-Mack to pay herself the $500,000 as the estate's 'sole beneficiary', meaning the money did not go to her daughter and suspected killer, Heather Mack."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2730590/Police-Room-disagreement-preceded-Bali-killing.html

"But in June 2011, a judge authorized von Wiese-Mack, the executor of her husband’s estate, to pay herself the remaining $500,000 as the estate’s “sole beneficiary.” ... Two years after the settlement, a pair of banks released outstanding mortgages totaling $384,000 on the upscale Oak Park home von Wiese-Mack shared with her daughter. The mortgages were taken out in 2005 and 2006, before James Mack died. ... Von Wiese-Mack eventually sold the Oak Park home last year for $650,000, Cook County records show, and moved to a Chicago high-rise."

"Sheila von Wiese-Mack immediately netted $340,667 after legal fees for her share of the settlement, according to court records. But another $500,000 went to James Mack’s estate."

http://www.suntimes.com/29354459-76...in-a-cruise-line-settlement.html#.U_oFzk10yAh

All I can tell you for sure- estate law if like a huge, black puddle of murky water. There are so many loopholes. Everything you do with the estate- you always have to keep in mind the huge TAX cost that may happen if you make the wrong move with money/property.

I haven't read anywhere where Mack specifically excluded Shelia from the will. All I've read is that he excluded all his children except Heather. For example- this:

James Mack signed his will five days before his death, records show. And in it, he said it was intended “only to provide for Heather Mack, my child, and for no other children.” At the time, Mack was age 10.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/...in-a-cruise-line-settlement.html#.U_sjYvldXVB

BBM-To me- that's pretty clear. Mack did not want any of his kids except Heather to receive anything from his estate.

I'm assuming, but I bet some of his other kids contested his will. That's probably why there is huge time gaps. Probate courts move slow. Any claim filed against the estate has to go before the judge.
Mack was pretty specific with his wording in this will. "only to provide for Heather Mack, my child, and for no other children"

It sounds to me like mom gave Heather plenty of money. It's not really like mom stole Heather's money and didn't support her. If 500,000 was put in the account, by the time you deduct taxes, fees paid, and other bills- there probably wasn't that much left over. Heather sounds like she was a "high maintenance" teenager. It sounds like Shelia pretty much supported her very well. She probably thought it she handled the money and gave her a little at a time- it would keep Heather from spending it all up.

It's been reported that Sheila used points for her stay at the St. Regis. She may have had to use credit cards to cover daily expenses. I know it may seem strange, but maybe that was her way to cut back.

My husband travels a lot. He loves the points. At the end of the year, we cash them all in for gift cards. That's how we buy all our Christmas.

 

[SouthAussie]

One Indonesian person who is questioning the FBI involvement in this case, and suggests it smells of corruption ....

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/08/25/comments-fbi-assisting-bali-police-murder-probe.html

 

[newone]

One Indonesian person who is questioning the FBI involvement in this case, and suggests it smells of corruption ....

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/08/25/comments-fbi-assisting-bali-police-murder-probe.html

from your link:

"Or is the lawyer needed to provide legal moral advice? This case does not need American lawyers illegally entering Indonesia without the proper working permits and completely out of their jurisdiction."

that alone should be the sticking point.....he wouldn't be coming to Bali on vacation

 

[LambChop]

One Indonesian person who is questioning the FBI involvement in this case, and suggests it smells of corruption ....

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/08/25/comments-fbi-assisting-bali-police-murder-probe.html

I can find the law right now but I believe that if an American plans to murder another American while they are on foreign soil prior to leaving the US it becomes a US crime which they will be charged with. So the US will charge them and once Bali lets them go the US will take over. It is certainly not over for these two if they think they will be set free in Bali. jmo

 

[SouthAussie]

I can find the law right now but I believe that if an American plans to murder another American while they are on foreign soil prior to leaving the US it becomes a US crime which they will be charged with. So the US will charge them and once Bali lets them go the US will take over. It is certainly not over for these two if they think they will be set free in Bali. jmo

I found this excerpt about FBI involvement overseas .... with Sheila being a US victim of crime, I think that substantiates their involvement .. from their point of view anyway.

FBI

The FBI becomes involved in investigating crimes against U.S. citizens under the following two circumstances:

- When the FBI has authority under the U.S. criminal code to investigate certain crimes such as terrorism, the homicide or kidnapping of U.S. citizens, or international family abduction.
- When a foreign government requests FBI assistance with an investigation.

The FBI has more than 100 full-time victim specialists located at its headquarters and in field offices around the country. Once the FBI officially opens an investigation, it assumes responsibility for managing the assistance and information provided to victims and families, coordinating closely with the U.S. Department of State

http://ojp.gov/ovc/publications/infores/ServingVictimsAbroad/pfv.html

And here is the US law that covers it ... if it was a conspiracy developed within the US (from Dept of Justice website).

Conspiracy Within the United States to Murder, Kidnap, or Maim Persons or to Damage Certain Property Overseas (18 U.S.C. § 956)

On April 24, 1996, 18 U.S.C. § 956 was expanded to cover conspiracies within the United States to kill, kidnap, or maim persons overseas. See Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, Pub. L. 104-132, § 704, 110 Stat. 1214, 1294. Section 956 was also expanded to cover additional types of property overseas likely to be attacked by terrorists. Section 956 requires that one overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy be committed within the United States

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00014.htm

 

[otto]

I was trying to understand the PLAN that these two had. My impression is that they decided to murder mom and take off with the credit cards and money (if there was access to bank accounts). The plan was on track with the boyfriend arriving towards the end of the vacation, murdering mom, putting her into the suitcase, taking the luggage to a taxi, and then everything went wrong. They needed their passports and access to whatever else was in the safety deposit box. Without the passports, they couldn't leave the country. I have to wonder why they didn't take the taxi anyway and put the suitcase in a river, or the jungle ... somewhere that it could not be found.

What stopped them from leaving the hotel with the luggage at that point ... other than to sneak out the back way? Why didn't they simply take the taxi to another hotel, claim that there was an argument so they left ... explain that they couldn't get their passports because mom was controlling, apply for new passports, hide the suitcase, and carry on? What they did is put mom in a suitcase and pretty much deliver her to the police. Surely they knew that the taxi driver would eventually look in the suitcase, or take it to the police.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I can find the law right now but I believe that if an American plans to murder another American while they are on foreign soil prior to leaving the US it becomes a US crime which they will be charged with. So the US will charge them and once Bali lets them go the US will take over. It is certainly not over for these two if they think they will be set free in Bali. jmo

I've been looking (googling) for this answer and so far have found none. But isn't the bottom line whether or not we have an extradition treaty with Indonesia? I believe it has been established that we don't? Is that right?

So I don't think it matters what the FBI wants to do. I think Indonesia will do what Indonesia wants to do. MOO

 

[otto]

I've been looking (googling) for this answer and so far have found none. But isn't the bottom line whether or not we have an extradition treaty with Indonesia? I believe it has been established that we don't? Is that right?

So I don't think it matters what the FBI wants to do. I think Indonesia will do what Indonesia wants to do. MOO

The FBI can be there as observers, but they can't do anything unless Bali authorities ask for assistance.

 

[SouthAussie]

I was trying to understand the PLAN that these two had. My impression is that they decided to murder mom and take off with the credit cards and money (if there was access to bank accounts). The plan was on track with the boyfriend arriving towards the end of the vacation, murdering mom, putting her into the suitcase, taking the luggage to a taxi, and then everything went wrong. They needed their passports and access to whatever else was in the safety deposit box. Without the passports, they couldn't leave the country. I have to wonder why they didn't take the taxi anyway and put the suitcase in a river, or the jungle ... somewhere that it could not be found.

What stopped them from leaving the hotel with the luggage at that point ... other than to sneak out the back way? Why didn't they simply take the taxi to another hotel, claim that there was an argument so they left ... explain that they couldn't get their passports because mom was controlling, apply for new passports, hide the suitcase, and carry on? What they did is put mom in a suitcase and pretty much deliver her to the police. Surely they knew that the taxi driver would eventually look in the suitcase, or take it to the police.

I read somewhere that they had trouble checking out of the hotel too (not just getting access to the safety deposit box). And that the hotel went looking for Sheila to confirm that she would pay for the room, but they could not find her.

Maybe the hotel asked the taxi driver to wait while they found Sheila .. to confirm that she would be paying for both rooms? (Especially as everyone at the front desk seemed to know about the argument the previous day about room payment.)

I'll try to find the link ...

Here it is.

The following day, Schaefer and Heather von Wiese Mack checked out of the hotel. They loaded their suitcases into a cab and told the driver to wait. Resort staff had asked Schaefer and girlfriend to remain in the lobby while they located Sheila von Wiese. The couple instead sneaked out of the hotel through the beach entrance.

http://heavy.com/news/2014/08/heather-von-wiese-mack-boyfriend-sheila-von-wiese-suspect/

 

[nightwatch]

There is lots of good local food in Bali ... but not in jail. HM and TS are not in prison yet, but I doubt anyone is going all out to provide them with a well-rounded diet which includes fruits and veg and fish. My guess is that they will be eating rice with perhaps a little bok choy in it - something picked up/dropped off from a local vendor. Same thing for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. This is not a wealthy country with lots of money to spend on meals for inmates .. or trained staff to cook for them.

When you look at pics of prisoners there, they are all thin, no Big Bubbas there. I'm sure a healthy diet of illegal drugs and rice keeps them skinny. Except for the ones that have family to bring them food.

The fast food initially offered was probably to befriend them imo .. get them talking. But that didn't work, so I can't see any nicities being offered at all now.


And it will only get worse, if they don't have cash to spend or family to provide for them ....

If all the Info is true about some prisoners get good food and others don't. The haves must be segregated from the have nots, otherwise there must be huge fights to steal food. Jmo

ciao

 

[FigTree]

I found this excerpt about FBI involvement overseas .... with Sheila being a US victim of crime, I think that substantiates their involvement .. from their point of view anyway.

And here is the US law that covers it ... if it was a conspiracy developed within the US (from Dept of Justice website).

I am wondering if it goes further to give help to the alleged murderers (in this case).
I can understand the help for Sheila and her family - but seeing that a family member (Heather) is at the centre of this - maybe the FBI involvement is more complex.

Still no US Lawyer on the scene.
I am wondering if Heather thought she still had access to money and was going to pay for her boyfriends lawyer - or thought that they could both be represented by the same Lawyer.
(sorry if I'm repeating others thoughts here)

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I was trying to understand the PLAN that these two had. My impression is that they decided to murder mom and take off with the credit cards and money (if there was access to bank accounts). The plan was on track with the boyfriend arriving towards the end of the vacation, murdering mom, putting her into the suitcase, taking the luggage to a taxi, and then everything went wrong. They needed their passports and access to whatever else was in the safety deposit box. Without the passports, they couldn't leave the country. I have to wonder why they didn't take the taxi anyway and put the suitcase in a river, or the jungle ... somewhere that it could not be found.

What stopped them from leaving the hotel with the luggage at that point ... other than to sneak out the back way? Why didn't they simply take the taxi to another hotel, claim that there was an argument so they left ... explain that they couldn't get their passports because mom was controlling, apply for new passports, hide the suitcase, and carry on? What they did is put mom in a suitcase and pretty much deliver her to the police. Surely they knew that the taxi driver would eventually look in the suitcase, or take it to the police.

Maybe they thought an unattended suitcase might be taken for a bomb and be blown up by the bomb squad? Gawd, I'm really reaching now, lol.

It is very strange how they left that bloodied suitcase like they did, maybe the horror of what they'd done had set in on them and they didn't want to handle it anymore. Luckily they did it for whatever reasons because if they lost it in the jungle somewhere, they would have a had some weeks or longer of freedom. jmo

 

[SouthAussie]

I am wondering if it goes further to give help to the alleged murderers (in this case).
I can understand the help for Sheila and her family - but seeing that a family member (Heather) is at the centre of this - maybe the FBI involvement is more complex.

Still no US Lawyer on the scene.
I am wondering if Heather thought she still had access to money and was going to pay for her boyfriends lawyer - or thought that they could both be represented by the same Lawyer.
(sorry if I'm repeating others thoughts here)

Yes ... I think it revolves around this US law .. which I added to my post above. But I still don't see that Indonesia has to hand over HM and TS unless they want to. Seeing that they have possession of the accused - and it is their country, their laws, their jurisdiction. Unless it is to their advantage in some way to hand them over, that is.

Conspiracy Within the United States to Murder, Kidnap, or Maim Persons or to Damage Certain Property Overseas (18 U.S.C. § 956)

On April 24, 1996, 18 U.S.C. § 956 was expanded to cover conspiracies within the United States to kill, kidnap, or maim persons overseas. See Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, Pub. L. 104-132, § 704, 110 Stat. 1214, 1294. Section 956 was also expanded to cover additional types of property overseas likely to be attacked by terrorists. Section 956 requires that one overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy be committed within the United States

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/fo...9/crm00014.htm

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Yes ... I think it revolves around this US law .. which I added to my post above. But I still don't see that Indonesia has to hand over HM and TS unless they want to. Seeing that they have possession of the accused - and it is their country, their laws, their jurisdiction. Unless it is to their advantage in some way to hand them over, that is.

I have a sneaky suspicion SA that they will hand them over. :dunno:

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe they thought an unattended suitcase might be taken for a bomb and be blown up by the bomb squad? Gawd, I'm really reaching now, lol.

It is very strange how they left that bloodied suitcase like they did, maybe the horror of what they'd done had set in on them and they didn't want to handle it anymore. Luckily they did it for whatever reasons because if they lost it in the jungle somewhere, they would have a had some weeks or longer of freedom. jmo

I think they may have been afraid that hotel staff would call the police, if they couldn't find Sheila and confirm that she would pay for the room that TS was trying to check out of - as per my post above. HM & TS couldn't/wouldn't pay for the room. That would amount to theft of services.

And they knew Sheila wouldn't be found (alive and in the hotel). So they scarpered quick smart.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have a sneaky suspicion SA that they will hand them over. :dunno:

I have to admit, I am afraid of the same thing. If it is to Indonesia's 'advantage' .. iykwim.

I guess it all depends whether the US really wants them or not. Hopefully, not.

The US law covering US conspiracy to murder US citizens overseas seems to be aimed primarily at terrorism, not 'plain ole murder'.

 

[Quester]

I can find the law right now but I believe that if an American plans to murder another American while they are on foreign soil prior to leaving the US it becomes a US crime which they will be charged with. So the US will charge them and once Bali lets them go the US will take over. It is certainly not over for these two if they think they will be set free in Bali. jmo

Fine, if so, let Indonesia prosecute, convict, sentence, and when sentence completed, send them back [in whatever state] to US to face whatever US charges - just like with JoranVS and his pending charges in US. JMHO

 

[nightwatch]

I found this excerpt about FBI involvement overseas .... with Sheila being a US victim of crime, I think that substantiates their involvement .. from their point of view anyway.





And here is the US law that covers it ... if it was a conspiracy developed within the US (from Dept of Justice website).

Imo the FBI has seen the evidence and we know when Mrs Mack was returned to the US the FBI had another autopsy done to confirm the Bali autopsy findings.

Ot a little. Thinking if TS were my son would I try to travel to Bali to see him or send him money for food... To be honest I don't think I would. In fact I know I wouldn't. Jmt


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...donesia-headed-back-to-us-20140818-story.html

ciao