Baptist Minister to apologize to those routinely condemned by Christans

[Truly]

I guess I'm the zealot, hater, religious freak then. Fine, I've been called that on both sides of many issues and it doesn't bother me.

However, realize that all of you have attacked and accosted me much the same way as you all are saying that I have condemned. I have never said that any of you are wrong for anything you've done, nor that you MUST believe what I do. But here's what I HAVE done:

I've stated that the Bible does directly state against all BUT living together (and that it does indirectly). I've stated my opinion that a leader in the Church should not only teach forgiveness to all (and how to dispense it) but that there are certain things we are to believe morally wrong. I have stated that I don't have the right to tell anyone what to do/think/believe and that I've not done so unless asked. The friends that have asked know how I feel and know that I don't treat them any differently than anyone of the friends I have in my own church.

I'm sorry that I wasn't aware that only agreeing opinions should be posted on this topic or any threads in these forums. But I believe my opinion just as much as you do yours. So with that I'll agree to disagree and let you all go on with your peaceful little agreement fest.

kygal, I think your opinions are very valid. I think this is an interesting discussion. You actually really feel it, and therefore I deeply wish to listen to your thoughts on the subject. I honestly was asking 'why' in my questions. I was not trying to hurt your feelings at all. I am sorry because I can tell that I must have phrased my questions in a way that hurt you.

I tried to add the smilie to be friendly. I do not think you are anything except a nice kind person. I know you do not hate or are a zealot or anything like that. I do not think anyone has attacked or accosted you here.

Deep breath, everybody. This is a good discussion. Listening.

 

[Truly]

ETA: I believe as much as anyone else that I am a TRUE CHRISTIAN, just as much as anyone else of this faith. To me that is as much as an attack on me personally as anything else you have said. I've not judged anyone on what's been said here, nor have I said that anyone is not a true christian -- including the pastor of the topic.

I was responding to another post. There have been no attacks on you or anyone else. I feel like I am walking on eggshells just trying to have a conversation. It is good to try to listen and understand each other. The questions I have asked here are things I do not understand. I am hoping that the people who understand them will explain them.

You have stated that this pastor should resign since he does not interpret the bible in the same exact way that you do. He is of the exact same faith as you, presumably, another True Christian. Why should he resign?

 

[justche]

So...are you saying that he is not a True Christian?

It seems as though all of the topics he mentioned referred to 'couples just living together'. Gay couples...unplanned pregnancies...these are personal. Of course, the personal is political lol.

This is the first Baptist preacher I have ever heard. He sounds more like Jesus than the usual hellfiredamnation types. Of course, we must remember that it was the followers of Jesus who strung him up in the end. So I am not surprised that True Christians would condemn this preacher.

Good grief! You are consistently rude to people who speak up for their faith. You twist words and try to put people in a defensive mode. And you totally misrepresent scriptures. It wasn't Jesus' followers that "strung him up" It was actually the Romans - spurred on by the Jewish Religious Leaders...you know, the ones who didn't like that he said he was the Son of God. And they didn't string him up. They beat him, they bloodied him, they abused him. Then they nailed him to the cross. This was an execution. And by the way, Jesus spoke of Hell, he gave grave warnings about it- it's not just usual hellfiredamnation types who bring it up.

I don't think anyone is "condemning" this pastor. They are taking a stand. As a Baptist minister he should be teaching the tenants of that denomination. If he doesn't feel comfortable with that - he can go independent, he can join any other church he wants to, but as a "baptist" he should adhere and teach those beliefs.

I don't know if he's a true Christian or not - but if I wanted to hear direct from the Bible teaching, I would no sooner attend his church, than I would Rev. Wright's church.

 

[southcitymom]

...... As a Baptist minister he should be teaching the tenants of that denomination......

Fred Phelps is also a Baptist minister - is he teaching the tenants of that denomination?

 

[Utopia]

Yes, Kygal, but he also teaches that the only person who can judge is God. That's why I walked away from the Christian faith in my teens, too many people telling me that what I thought and felt was wrong. That's between my interpretation of God and me, not the guy next door or the pastor of the church down the block. When one group tells you one thing and another tells you another and two gang up on you to tell you you're going to hell and you're a evil woman simply because you aren't like them, it tends to put one off. It put me off long ago and from what I've seen in recent times, it's not gotten any better.

Frankly, I hate having religious discussions anymore. Mostly because even when they should be about unity and love, they turn in to a big game of "My god can beat up your god." Ironic how that happens.

ITA:clap:

 

[justche]

Fred Phelps is also a Baptist minister - is he teaching the tenants of that denomination?

He's an independent Baptist minister. No he's not teaching mainstream Baptist teaching - which is why it's mostly only family members that attend that church.
Although - Al Gore was the beneficiary of a fundraiser by phelp's who later turned and picketed Gore's father's funeral.

He also runs as a democrat in local politics.

It's widely believed that he enjoys making Christians (and democrats- not mutually exclusive ) look bad.

 

[scarpetta]

I guess I'm the zealot, hater, religious freak then. Fine, I've been called that on both sides of many issues and it doesn't bother me.

However, realize that all of you have attacked and accosted me much the same way as you all are saying that I have condemned. I have never said that any of you are wrong for anything you've done, nor that you MUST believe what I do. But here's what I HAVE done:

I've stated that the Bible does directly state against all BUT living together (and that it does indirectly). I've stated my opinion that a leader in the Church should not only teach forgiveness to all (and how to dispense it) but that there are certain things we are to believe morally wrong. I have stated that I don't have the right to tell anyone what to do/think/believe and that I've not done so unless asked. The friends that have asked know how I feel and know that I don't treat them any differently than anyone of the friends I have in my own church.

I'm sorry that I wasn't aware that only agreeing opinions should be posted on this topic or any threads in these forums. But I believe my opinion just as much as you do yours. So with that I'll agree to disagree and let you all go on with your peaceful little agreement fest.

ETA: I believe as much as anyone else that I am a TRUE CHRISTIAN, just as much as anyone else of this faith. To me that is as much as an attack on me personally as anything else you have said. I've not judged anyone on what's been said here, nor have I said that anyone is not a true christian -- including the pastor of the topic.

When I saw your user name my first thought was that jelly that goes by the same name, and I thought Wow, what an identity! You go girl! Burn those calories! Then it dawned on on me that you were from Kentucky.
Anyway....I agree with what i think you are saying. If someone decides that they are going to view the bible as a non-negotiable standard given to them personally by God, and if they also believe that he is the final authority according to that same book, then that means that ALL of it applies to them, even the unpleasant or politically incorrect parts. It seems illogical to claim that the creator of the universe wrote it himself and that is why you embrace it as though he did, and then turn around and pick and choose which parts you feel actually apply to you as though that same creator gave you complete authority to decide what really applies. BTW, Kentucky is a beautiful state regardless of what people think you are doing there. LOL

 

[scarpetta]

Maybe the Christians that this pastor represents can apologize to the people they believe are not Christians. And then other Christians who believe very strongly that this group apologizing are not Christians either can apologize to this Pastor. And then the Muslims can apologize on behalf of the same God as these Christians for calling these Christians infidels. Then the other religious sects that the mainstream Christians do not believe are Christian can apologize to everyone but their own members. The Hindu’s can apologize to the Christians, Muslim’s, religious sects, Buddhist’s, and people from California for including too many gods to keep track of. And the Buddhist’s can also say they are sorry for the cost of airfare just to get to the Himalayas.

Or everyone can just keep doing what they have been doing for thousands of years.

 

[southcitymom]

Maybe the Christians that this pastor represents can apologize to the people they believe are not Christians. And then other Christians who believe very strongly that this group apologizing are not Christians either can apologize to this Pastor. And then the Muslims can apologize on behalf of the same God as these Christians for calling these Christians infidels. Then the other religious sects that the mainstream Christians do not believe are Christian can apologize to everyone but their own members. The Hindu’s can apologize to the Christians, Muslim’s, religious sects, Buddhist’s, and people from California for including too many gods to keep track of. And the Buddhist’s can also say they are sorry for the cost of airfare just to get to the Himalayas.

Or everyone can just keep doing what they have been doing for thousands of years.

If I were a pastor, my first sermon would be on the need to eradicate religion from our consciousness! Then everyone could apologize to everyone else and we could start fresh!

 

[Eire]

If I were a pastor, my first sermon would be on the need to eradicate religion from our consciousness! Then everyone could apologize to everyone else and we could start fresh!

If you were building a congregation, I'd join!

 

[southcitymom]

If you were building a congregation, I'd join!

You can be my first non-member!

 

[southcitymom]

He's an independent Baptist minister. No he's not teaching mainstream Baptist teaching - which is why it's mostly only family members that attend that church.
Although - Al Gore was the beneficiary of a fundraiser by phelp's who later turned and picketed Gore's father's funeral.

He also runs as a democrat in local politics.

It's widely believed that he enjoys making Christians (and democrats- not mutually exclusive ) look bad.

You're right, justche! And truth be told, I have always felt sorry that he chose the Baptist denomination to identify with - a complete drag for the Baptists!

 

[Nova]

But the Bible is open for interpretation, KYgal - there are plenty of Christan Churches that do not teach that the following is wrong: homosexuality, living together before marriage, abortion, women leading men in Christian worship, etc....

Besides - some interpretations of the Bible also teach that it's wrong to have sex during your period, but I've never heard a sermon on that.:waitasec:

He's apologizing for Christianity's self-righteousness. As Christians, we miss the mark when we try to club people over the head with right and wrong. Christ's message did not center on judgment. If Christ is the center of the new testament, we should focus on what he said was the most important thing He came to teach us - To love God with all our hearts and to love our neighbors as ourselves. Not just the neighbors that act like we think they should act.

Jesus's ministry was one of inclusion. Some Christian church's have fallen away from that center, IMHO.

Given my rep here at WS, I really think I should post in this thread.

But after this post and IrishMist's, what else is there to say?

 

[Nova]

He's an independent Baptist minister. No he's not teaching mainstream Baptist teaching - which is why it's mostly only family members that attend that church.
Although - Al Gore was the beneficiary of a fundraiser by phelp's who later turned and picketed Gore's father's funeral.

He also runs as a democrat in local politics.

It's widely believed that he enjoys making Christians (and democrats- not mutually exclusive ) look bad.

You see? I told you we'd agree on something eventually.

I don't claim to be a fan of some mainstream Baptist teachings, but not even I associate the vast majority of Baptists with Fred Phelps.

 

[barb0301]

So, what did he say today?

 

[Truly]

So, what did he say today?

Well, barb, I did see a little blurb on a news site where Rev. Lee mentioned that 85% of people in the community no longer attend church. It is no wonder, really, the churchgoers keep driving people away. It is kind of humorous, in a way. They can wear 50-50 T-shirts and enjoy a shrimp boil (both BIG abominations in the bible), but if they discover that people are actually loving one another:blowkiss: , they will unleash all the wrath and fury they can muster.

I am afraid it will take more than one Baptist preacher apologizing in order to undo the centuries of venom, hatred, judgementalism and often sheer terror imposed on others by so many who call themselves Christians.

But it's a start!:clap:

Honestly, any interest which this one man may have stirred in me was completely soured by this thread. Ironic, huh?

 

[IrishMist]

Well, barb, I did see a little blurb on a news site where Rev. Lee mentioned that 85% of people in the community no longer attend church. It is no wonder, really, the churchgoers keep driving people away. It is kind of humorous, in a way. They can wear 50-50 T-shirts and enjoy a shrimp boil (both BIG abominations in the bible), but if they discover that people are actually loving one another:blowkiss: , they will unleash all the wrath and fury they can muster.

I am afraid it will take more than one Baptist preacher apologizing in order to undo the centuries of venom, hatred, judgementalism and often sheer terror imposed on others by so many who call themselves Christians.

But it's a start!:clap:

Honestly, any interest which this one man may have stirred in me was completely soured by this thread. Ironic, huh?

I'm torn between "ironic" and "typical."

Good post, Truly.