Barb's November 14 interview

[missy1974]

BARBARA said she returned home at about 7:45 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. and told BLAINE and BRENDAN she was going over by SCOTT's house for a while.

Another problem with this statement.....
Blaine shouldn't have been home.... he went trick or treating with his friend. He left at 5:20 and returned around 9:30, according to his statement http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...bit-355-Blaine-Dassey-11-7-2005-Interview.pdf

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I'm 99% certain that's actually from Brendan's interview (the first one in the back of the car in Crivitz) not Blaine's - I've recently listened to it and read it again.

Re: Your last point.
The statements about the van are made in the context of Brendan seeing TH taking the photos and intending to go over to SA's to ask how much he was asking for the vehicle once Teresa was done. If you believe that version of BD's story, he then changed his mind and decided not to go and talk to SA because he didn't want to bother him.

My apologies! It is Brendan's interview. I don't know what to do believe of these early BD interviews... I am not sure where he got confused and just guessed or was coerced early on, or what. Seeing how innocent and easy to coerce he was in the March interviews, I can only imagine his early interviews may be slightly off as well. I just don't know. I do NOT believe he was involved at all.

 

[LifeCitizen]

Limanes, very true. Again, I'm still not convinced either way (and I'll admit, I haven't done near as much research/reading of transcripts, etc. as many people on here have done) but I do know that the anger he must have felt would have been outrageous. How could anyone serve 18 years in prison for a crime they didn't commit, then be hit with all of the deposition info, etc. from Mantiwoc county, and NOT be angry? And yes, possibly full of enough rage to commit murder...like I said, the whole "no hard feelings and everybody needs a hug" attitude just doesn't fly with me.

In the doco-series, they had Steven talking about when he got out. He made a point of saying 'all the anger was gone'. But he would have had to have been pissed off at the very least. 18 years is a long time.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Not wishing to Nit Pick - but I am tired of seeing posts saying SA served 18 years for a crime he did not commit. He served 12 years for a crime he did not commit. He was convicted of endangering the life of another person at the same time as the wrongful conviction, and was handed a six year sentence. It just goes to show what a con job MaM did as everyone seems to think he was just banged up for something he did not do.

He was not a nice person when he was sent down, and I believe he became an even more unpleasant one during his time in Prison. (A third of it he was actually guilty for.)

I've read everything there is to read on this case. In my opinion, he is guilty and deserves to stay in Prison forever. Listen to BD's first interviews, he is not the dumb kid he makes out in the March ones. He too is guilty and deserves to to be where he is.

 

[missy1974]

Hoosen_Fenger ~ to be fair, it wasn't MaM that pushed the 18 years, it has been said since he was exonerated by media, lawmakers, etc.

Here are just a few examples:
http://wislawjournal.com/2005/08/31/avery-bill-finds-legislative-support/

The task force’s namesake, Steven Avery was freed in 2003 after DNA testing proved he had not brutally raped and beaten a woman on a beach in Manitowoc County. Avery spent 18 years in prison.

http://news.wisc.edu/law-school-innocence-project-helps-exonerate-inmate/

Avery will be released from the Stanley Prison in northwestern Wisconsin sometime on the morning of Thursday, Sept. 11, after serving 18 years of a 32-year sentence.

Also, all the news reports from around the time he was exonerated all said "18 years", it doesn't seem like anyone distinguished between the 2 and even in his lawsuit, it was for the 18 years IIRC.

 

[ksterling3408]

I don't think the intention of MaM was to deceive or run a "con job"; however, we must remember that everything we see/read/hear about in the media will have some sort of bias. It is almost impossible for anything to be produced that will show absolutely no bias at all; that is just the nature of human beings, even when the intention to be completely unbiased is there. That is why forums like this (along with the FOIA) are a great thing, a way to wade through, discuss, and hash out all of the facts, opinions, documents, details, etc. of cases like these. I must say, I feel very fortunate to live in a country where we have the right to state our opinions...though the U.S. is not "blemish free", it is nice to have freedom of expression.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

 

[Sarah]

I informed her [of] a receipt from the store indicating a pair of pink cuffs were purchased along with an animal print of some sort. BARBARA said she did know hers were pink, however [she] did not know what type STEVEN bought.

While my head's in the handcuff thread, this little snippet jumped out at me that I'd never noticed before.
That receipt would seem to suggest that the new handcuffs SA purchased were animal print fur - not the plain ones that were presented in court.
Makes more sense of the unknown DNA on the pair that we know about, although it makes me wonder what happened to his new animal print pair.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

While my head's in the handcuff thread, this little snippet jumped out at me that I'd never noticed before.
That receipt would seem to suggest that the new handcuffs SA purchased were animal print fur - not the plain ones that were presented in court.
Makes more sense of the unknown DNA on the pair that we know about, although it makes me wonder what happened to his new animal print pair.

Well, you may very well be onto something there! IIRC, JS said that her and SA experimented with bondage. She wasn't aware that SA picked up those cuffs when he was with BJ, was she? Was she in jail at that point? So, the only cuffs that she would be aware of were another pair, correct? The ones she and SA used, and not the animal print. That would mean there were 2 sets of cuffs, one of which has not been recovered.

 

[missy1974]

While my head's in the handcuff thread, this little snippet jumped out at me that I'd never noticed before.
That receipt would seem to suggest that the new handcuffs SA purchased were animal print fur - not the plain ones that were presented in court.
Makes more sense of the unknown DNA on the pair that we know about, although it makes me wonder what happened to his new animal print pair.

The statement is unclear, but I thought they were talking about Barb's receipt. And the animal print of some sort .... I took it as maybe lingerie or clothing of some sort (edible undies? haha) My bad... sorry LOL But it says pink cuffs ALONG WITH.... I doubt their bedroom funtime items were on the same receipt? I dunno I'm in and out today, so will have a look later

 

[Hippiemomof5]

Yeah I took it to mean Barb's receipts had pink cuffs and something animal print. SA's receipt is separate I'm guessing...

 

[BigCityAccountant]

We asked her if she could recall what STEVEN had bought and she said she thought it was a pair of leg cuffs and handcuffs, however, did not know what color they were. I informed her a receipt from the store indicating a pair of pink cuffs were purchased along with an animal print of some sort. BARBARA said she did know hers were pink, however, did not know what type STEVEN bought.

Grammatically, they were talking about what Steven had bought--so to say I have a receipt from the store showing pink cuffs and an animal print--could refer to cuffs. However, without knowing whether or not they paid together or had separate receipts, there would be no way to know. I'm going to guess that it was 2 pairs of cuffs, because if I remember reading somewhere else--SA paid for BD's or BD paid for SA's--but I can't remember which way it went. It had something to do with why BD didn't have the money to pay Auto Trader.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

That makes more sense BCA but is it even weirder that they checked out together (like a couple) while shopping at a sex shop?? I have two brothers and can not even imagine going to a store of that nature with one of them. lol

 

[missy1974]

05-230 7830 2 receipts from intimate treasures

That is what is in the evidence list. I looked for similar numbers and all that came up when searching 05-230 was a garage door opener and CD with BD and SA interviews.

This evidence list is a mess LOL
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-County-Sheriffs-Department-Evidence-List.pdf

 

[missy1974]

05-230 7830 2 receipts from intimate treasures

That is what is in the evidence list. I looked for similar numbers and all that came up when searching 05-230 was a garage door opener and CD with BD and SA interviews.

This evidence list is a mess LOL
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-County-Sheriffs-Department-Evidence-List.pdf


ETA: and there was no mention of the receipt in either trial that I could find (BD's trial docs are hard to search though)

 

[Sarah]

Such a shame that we don't have audio for this to hear the inflection, but I certainly interpreted it as BCA filled in above :

They were asking about what Steven had bought, she couldn't recall so they informed her of "a receipt from the store indicating a pair of pink cuffs were purchased along with an animal print (pair)* of some sort". She confirmed that the pink pair were hers but didn't know what Steven's were.

*my addition

We all know that grammatical correctness doesn't score very highly in a lot of these statements and there's a lot left open to interpretation, so maybe it's nothing.
The evidence list does state "2 receipts" (thank you Missy) and Baldwin refers to a receipt (singular), so perhaps the animal print whatever-it-was has nothing to do with SA's purchase.
I was assuming that all items were bought together.

if I remember reading somewhere else--SA paid for BD's or BD paid for SA's--but I can't remember which way it went. It had something to do with why BD didn't have the money to pay Auto Trader.

That rings a bell with me too, but I have no idea where I've seen it and whether it was a direct quote from a statement or just media/internet speculation.

The thing that still bugs me though is the unknown female DNA on the plain cuffs.
If they were only bought a couple of weeks previous it seems a bit odd - whereas if they were an older pair, it makes perfect sense that SA may have used them with former partners.

I have two brothers and can not even imagine going to a store of that nature with one of them. lol

Me too - and just the thought of going to a sex shop with one of them is enough to make me cringe <shudder>

To be fair though I can't imagine living within a few hundred yards of the rest of my family either or all of the other entwined relationships.
The Avery family dynamic is just one that I'll never be able to relate to and I have no idea what would be considered weird in that context.

 

[missy1974]

The unknown female DNA on the cuffs.... I never thought much of it (and I'm not sure the State did either), because they had to have been handled at some point in the store, no? a female employee? Were they checked against Barb's DNA (I can't remember and don't have the time right now lol dang family time this weekend haha)? Another customer maybe? picked them up, put them back on the hanger or whatever.

I always thought the most important evidence from the handcuffs was that they DID NOT have TH's DNA. Kind of like the key. The lack of TH's DNA is what gets me.


I have 2 brothers.... and are you freaking kidding me? LOL no way would I be like oh hey, lets go into Intimate Treasure's, I need some new cuffs.... oh look, these are pretty, they are pink and fluffy, should I buy them? AS IFFFFF LOL And I agree Sarah, the Avery (and Dassey/Tadych/Janda) family dynamic is just crazy. SA's ex is married to Barb's ex, so not only are their kids cousins, they are step siblings too LOL and thennnnnnn she marries a Janda, boots him and marries his cousin. Cray Cray! *sigh* I can honestly see how the family may have been looked down on in the community.... but it doesn't mean the justice system shouldn't be fair and equal IMO

 

[Jaiddie]

The unknown female DNA on the cuffs.... I never thought much of it (and I'm not sure the State did either), because they had to have been handled at some point in the store, no? a female employee? Were they checked against Barb's DNA (I can't remember and don't have the time right now lol dang family time this weekend haha)? Another customer maybe? picked them up, put them back on the hanger or whatever.

I always thought the most important evidence from the handcuffs was that they DID NOT have TH's DNA. Kind of like the key. The lack of TH's DNA is what gets me.


I have 2 brothers.... and are you freaking kidding me? LOL no way would I be like oh hey, lets go into Intimate Treasure's, I need some new cuffs.... oh look, these are pretty, they are pink and fluffy, should I buy them? AS IFFFFF LOL And I agree Sarah, the Avery (and Dassey/Tadych/Janda) family dynamic is just crazy. SA's ex is married to Barb's ex, so not only are their kids cousins, they are step siblings too LOL and thennnnnnn she marries a Janda, boots him and marries his cousin. Cray Cray! *sigh* I can honestly see how the family may have been looked down on in the community.... but it doesn't mean the justice system shouldn't be fair and equal IMO

The thing that gets me is that whole community seems a little strange in regards to family interactions....EVERYONE in that town seems to be distantly related somehow (joking, somewhat). If you think about it, you find names intermingled all over...Zipperer is somehow related to Kusche, and I think I read somewhere Remiker too maybe? Heck, even with the Halbach's. Teresa's mom ended up marrying her father's younger brother, for heaven's sake. So the town has no place looking down on the Avery's for something that seems to be common practice in that area, IMO. I think it is that the Avery's owned a junk yard which was also the family compound, coupled with the fact that it was in a prime land area and they refused to sell. I do not think it is coincidence that SA's problems all began in this saga, with a cousin that just happened to be married to a member of that sheriff's office and that the crimes she was accusing him of sounded suspiciously like Allen's crimes instead. IMO, this was a concerted effort, from the beginning in 85, to get the Avery clan discredited so that they would sell that land. The Avery business suffered from then on, and Hermann's competing business flourished. The Avery's also didn't help themselves any in regards to the brothers sexual and violent convictions and allegations either, TBF. SA may have had allegations made against him, but I find it telling that they were unable to secure any CONVICTIONS against him of a sexual nature, though.

As far as it being strange of a brother and sister purchasing those types of items together, I think you also have to look at what the family dynamic is. I have a very open family and could see going to such a store with my brother and his wife and not thinking anything about it. I have actually went with my sister and mother to such a store when I was younger (in my twenties, lol) and purchased items, so this doesn't seem that unusual for me. It just would depend on the family, IMO.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

The thing that gets me is that whole community seems a little strange in regards to family interactions....EVERYONE in that town seems to be distantly related somehow (joking, somewhat). If you think about it, you find names intermingled all over...Zipperer is somehow related to Kusche, and I think I read somewhere Remiker too maybe? Heck, even with the Halbach's. Teresa's mom ended up marrying her father's younger brother, for heaven's sake. So the town has no place looking down on the Avery's for something that seems to be common practice in that area, IMO. I think it is that the Avery's owned a junk yard which was also the family compound, coupled with the fact that it was in a prime land area and they refused to sell. I do not think it is coincidence that SA's problems all began in this saga, with a cousin that just happened to be married to a member of that sheriff's office and that the crimes she was accusing him of sounded suspiciously like Allen's crimes instead. IMO, this was a concerted effort, from the beginning in 85, to get the Avery clan discredited so that they would sell that land. The Avery business suffered from then on, and Hermann's competing business flourished. The Avery's also didn't help themselves any in regards to the brothers sexual and violent convictions and allegations either, TBF. SA may have had allegations made against him, but I find it telling that they were unable to secure any CONVICTIONS against him of a sexual nature, though.

As far as it being strange of a brother and sister purchasing those types of items together, I think you also have to look at what the family dynamic is. I have a very open family and could see going to such a store with my brother and his wife and not thinking anything about it. I have actually went with my sister and mother to such a store when I was younger (in my twenties, lol) and purchased items, so this doesn't seem that unusual for me. It just would depend on the family, IMO.

I think in small towns it is very common to have people who are related. I don't find anything odd about it. It is not like they have a million people in which to choose from. I personally don't think everyone in town was out to get the Avery land. If you have ever been there, you could drive across I-43 and find plenty of farm land in which to build. There is nothing special about that particular tract of land...it is abundant everywhere up there. I'd also like to point out that I wouldn't go to a junk yard in which I heard the owners were coming onto the customers, and I'd choose to look for my car parts at the Hermann's as well. You reap what you sow.

 

[Jaiddie]

I think in small towns it is very common to have people who are related. I don't find anything odd about it. It is not like they have a million people in which to choose from. I personally don't think everyone in town was out to get the Avery land. If you have ever been there, you could drive across I-43 and find plenty of farm land in which to build. There is nothing special about that particular tract of land...it is abundant everywhere up there. I'd also like to point out that I wouldn't go to a junk yard in which I heard the owners were coming onto the customers, and I'd choose to look for my car parts at the Hermann's as well. You reap what you sow.

I didn't mean everyone in town was out to get the Avery land...I mainly meant certain people connected with the sheriff's office. As far as your point on whether a customer would want to go to the Avery yard or the Hermann one...before SA '85 conviction, the Avery salvage yard was a flourishing business (rumors of customer harassment didn't seem to play a part at that point) that even had a contract with the local LE, and NOT Hermann's, but that, ironically, drastically changed after the wrongful conviction was put into play. That was the point I was trying to get across, when you consider the cousin, Sandy Morris, who started this ball rolling, was married to a sheriff's deputy and that her allegations of sexual misconduct that she was accusing SA of sound suspiciously like the allegations that were being put to Gregory Allen at that time. Of which her husband, and also her best friend, Ms. Dvorack (sp?) would be well aware, being in the LE profession. JMO

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I didn't mean everyone in town was out to get the Avery land...I mainly meant certain people connected with the sheriff's office. As far as your point on whether a customer would want to go to the Avery yard or the Hermann one...before SA '85 conviction, the Avery salvage yard was a flourishing business (rumors of customer harassment didn't seem to play a part at that point) that even had a contract with the local LE, and NOT Hermann's, but that, ironically, drastically changed after the wrongful conviction was put into play. That was the point I was trying to get across, when you consider the cousin, Sandy Morris, who started this ball rolling, was married to a sheriff's deputy and that her allegations of sexual misconduct that she was accusing SA of sound suspiciously like the allegations that were being put to Gregory Allen at that time. Of which her husband, and also her best friend, Ms. Dvorack (sp?) would be well aware, being in the LE profession. JMO

SA already had a criminal record by then. Its a small town, people tend to stay far away from those who are criminals. Sort of like, you're known by the company you keep.

By the way, do you think Chuck just developed that after SA got arrested, or maybe he was like that all along.