"BC is innocent" or "I'm not convinced yet" Discussion

[MCDRAW]

BC may have tried to be controlling or manipulating but I don't thnk NC was controlled. I think the word controlled is used too often sometimes only meaning they couldn't have their way. NC may have felt trapped but I just don't think she was controlled. There are women out there that are truly controlled. Those women usually aren't even allowed friends and are often too scared to go against their spouses.

 

[MCDRAW]

I don't have a hard time believing BC was controlling. Some women, who are strong, stay with men who are controlling. My mom did, for 42 years. It was actually 50 years before they divorced. Why? She couldn't handle the stigma of divorce, and she remembered all the times he was such a "good" man.

BC's own girlfriends of the past believe he could have done it. One of them has actually posted here!

It doesn't sound like your Mom was controlled so much by her husband as much as she was by the stigma of divorce. Your Mom was strong because even after 42 years, she got out. After that amount of time, some women would just accept their lot in life. Years ago things were so different. Women put up with so much more simply because that is what they knew. And there was a stigma for divorce. I knew someone whose Dad cheated all the time. The wife put up with it because her Dad cheated and so she thought that was normal. Years ago men hit women and nothing was ever thought about it. I tell my parents all the time, if I disciplined my children like they did, I would be in jail.

 

[jumpstreet]

I guess we'll have to see what is contained on any of the hard drives, or within papers taken as part of the SW, Nancy's private diary/papers and of course direct witness testimony if someone observed such behavior (it would not be he said/she said or hearsay if the person could be questioned on something they personally observed or had first-hand knowledge.) Also, a thorough psych exam would reveal personality traits, though whether we'll ever learn about them I don't know.

Agreed! Those items would provide a more concrete basis to draw conclusions. In the meantime, anyone who is honestly trying to discount the he-said/she-said presumably is maintaining a generally 'neutral' position on BC's personality (as we don't have any hard evidence one way or the other).

I think a "sanity" check for those of us trying to totally 'set aside' the he-said/she-said: When you think of BC, what type of "personality" do you think he has. Answer should generally be an 'unknown' at this point.

Again, this is if one's goal is to just go primarily on the 'hard facts'. Granted, not everyone needs or wants to do that (fine too), as the affidavits are there, but I think it can really start to get murky quickly if we try to draw too many conclusions based on the he-said/she-said subjective stuff, even if there is (and maybe especially if there is) a lot of it.

 

[ncnative]

Yes, I read those...but hell has no fury like a woman scorned and clearly NC did not have a concern about the enigma of divorce as she was the one who initiated the seperation.

As to BC's ex girlfriend of the distant past posting here (RKAB), she was NOT a "woman scorned". SHE dumped Brad Cooper, that relationship being way before Nancy and BC were married to each other. She explained why SHE broke up with BC,here on WS (and in private to me). She said that he would simmer over something for a long time, then blow up. She also said that being with him was an emotional rollercoaster (he being the roller coaster) and that his mom thought that he could do no wrong, even when RKAB would try to discuss things with his mom. So in that case, I don't see that ex girlfriend as a "woman scorned". She doesn't share everything on her posts, and seems to have backed off from posting. I would not blame her at all. She does have a keen knowledge of BCs behavior on a personal level. I won't share that.

On another note, about controlling men: sometimes, not all, the controlling issues don't become fully developed for a long while. They fester and ripen. But that's a story for the psych. department.

 

[rwesafe]

As to BC's ex girlfriend of the distant past posting here (RKAB), she was NOT a "woman scorned". SHE dumped Brad Cooper, that relationship being way before Nancy and BC were married to each other. She explained why SHE broke up with BC,here on WS (and in private to me). She said that he would simmer over something for a long time, then blow up. She also said that being with him was an emotional rollercoaster (he being the roller coaster) and that his mom thought that he could do no wrong, even when RKAB would try to discuss things with his mom. So in that case, I don't see that ex girlfriend as a "woman scorned". She doesn't share everything on her posts, and seems to have backed off from posting. I would not blame her at all. She does have a keen knowledge of BCs behavior on a personal level. I won't share that.

On another note, about controlling men: sometimes, not all, the controlling issues don't become fully developed for a long while. They fester and ripen. But that's a story for the psych. department.

I don't discount what she says. She has no cause to lie. However, Brad and Nancy were married at 25 or 26 years of age, which is young IMO, so if her relationship was way before they were ever married, you are talking about an immature relationship. I had a boyfriend like that. He was a great guy, he was just young an immature. Lots of things change when you have been married to the same person for 8 years and you have had children....I dare say most of us acted like brats in our youthful relationships.

 

[jmflu]

and of course direct witness testimony if someone observed such behavior (it would not be he said/she said or hearsay if the person could be questioned on something they personally observed or had first-hand knowledge.)

I thought we had some of that in the affidavits? Friends who witnessed how BC treated NC?

 

[jmflu]

It doesn't sound like your Mom was controlled so much by her husband as much as she was by the stigma of divorce. Your Mom was strong because even after 42 years, she got out. After that amount of time, some women would just accept their lot in life. Years ago things were so different. Women put up with so much more simply because that is what they knew. And there was a stigma for divorce. I knew someone whose Dad cheated all the time. The wife put up with it because her Dad cheated and so she thought that was normal. Years ago men hit women and nothing was ever thought about it. I tell my parents all the time, if I disciplined my children like they did, I would be in jail.

Hi MCDRAW... My mom was definitely controlled by my dad. I can attest to that. Perhaps she didn't seek divorce because she was controlled by the stigma of divorce, but I can remember many times in which my dad didn't want my mom to do something, so she didn't. He was emotionally controlling in many ways. She was strong enough to survive him and wasn't as weak as many women who don't question their abusive husbands because they are constantly physically beaten down, but she was controlled by my dad.

 

[RKAB]

I tend to discount what an EX says. Most of the time they have an ax to grind.

I definately don't have an ax to grind.

Our relationship was a long time ago, I went through alot in that relationship and I am thankful to have gotten through it and past it. Prior to this event with BC/NC, had I seen Brad in our hometown, I would like to think that our conversation would probably have been both cordial and social. I don't hate him for the problems that we had. Too much time in life is wasted on "hating" and dwelling on the past. Would I actively seek him out if I knew he was home at the same time that I was just to catch up with him? Uh...NO.

Since NC's murder, I have lost several nights of sleep wrestiling with my conscience as to if and how BC's life could have escalated to this. My heart is broken for BOTH families, particularly NC's and particularly for those poor little girls.

I think I have been fair in my statements. I have made every effort to both filter and hold back emotions. I have also resisted spilling any definately intimate information, which I consider to be private. I could have provided many examples to back up my statements but I have chosen not to. I would hope that people who have read my posts respect the road that I have taken and realize that I am not the bitter, angry ex. I have tried to offer MY own personal insight only, from MY own personal experience only because I thought that it helped others to maybe understand a bit of how BC was when he was in my life so many years ago.

Ok, hopping off my soap box now and going to do some work.

Oh, and just so that I keep to the topic of the thread, I still believe that he is guilty. I find the time frame too small for anyone else to have done it among other things.

:blowkiss:

 

[pamlet]

Hi MCDRAW... My mom was definitely controlled by my dad. I can attest to that. Perhaps she didn't seek divorce because she was controlled by the stigma of divorce, but I can remember many times in which my dad didn't want my mom to do something, so she didn't. He was emotionally controlling in many ways. She was strong enough to survive him and wasn't as weak as many women who don't question their abusive husbands because they are constantly physically beaten down, but she was controlled by my dad.

This is something my sister would have said about my father just a year ago - in fact she DID say many of these things... My view of him was just the opposite. Almost a year ago Dad fell (he was 80), broke a number of ribs and never came home.. (he died just 4 weeks ago)...

Anyway my sister and I had absolute opposite views of our parent's relationship - I saw my Mom as manipulative ... she saw Dad as emotionally controlling... we have come to realize over this past year that our extreme views were NOT correct ... and a little of each was there - We only see what we either WANT to see or are ALLOWED to see ..

As to Brad being so controlling - I don't see it ... but then we only see what is being said ... by people who have totally aligned themselves on one side or the other... and we're a step away from it. The friends are like my sister and I - just seeing what we wanted to see or were allowed to see.

I find it very hard to accept he was so controlling when Nancy obviously had the freedom to come/go ... have a LOT of outside interaction with friends.

Did Brad do it? I'm on the fence ... I can see him doing it in anger .. Yet somehow all the stories Nancy's friends are telling ring hollow to me ..

 

[Roy23]

I definately don't have an ax to grind.

Our relationship was a long time ago, I went through alot in that relationship and I am thankful to have gotten through it and past it. Prior to this event with BC/NC, had I seen Brad in our hometown, I would like to think that our conversation would probably have been both cordial and social. I don't hate him for the problems that we had. Too much time in life is wasted on "hating" and dwelling on the past. Would I actively seek him out if I knew he was home at the same time that I was just to catch up with him? Uh...NO.

Since NC's murder, I have lost several nights of sleep wrestiling with my conscience as to if and how BC's life could have escalated to this. My heart is broken for BOTH families, particularly NC's and particularly for those poor little girls.

I think I have been fair in my statements. I have made every effort to both filter and hold back emotions. I have also resisted spilling any definately intimate information, which I consider to be private. I could have provided many examples to back up my statements but I have chosen not to. I would hope that people who have read my posts respect the road that I have taken and realize that I am not the bitter, angry ex. I have tried to offer MY own personal insight only, from MY own personal experience only because I thought that it helped others to maybe understand a bit of how BC was when he was in my life so many years ago.

Ok, hopping off my soap box now and going to do some work.

Oh, and just so that I keep to the topic of the thread, I still believe that he is guilty. I find the time frame too small for anyone else to have done it among other things.

:blowkiss:

I understand you keeping a lot of things private. You seem to have some insight into his personality of keeping things inside and blowing up. I have the same issue. You also seem to be level headed. It is a strong statement to make that personality issues you have stated could also mean it could escalate to the point of murder. Thanks for you insight. I am reading between the lines in your post that Brad might of had some other issues that you feel might be pertinent. But you can't go there.

 

[jmflu]

I definately don't have an ax to grind.

Our relationship was a long time ago, I went through alot in that relationship and I am thankful to have gotten through it and past it. Prior to this event with BC/NC, had I seen Brad in our hometown, I would like to think that our conversation would probably have been both cordial and social. I don't hate him for the problems that we had. Too much time in life is wasted on "hating" and dwelling on the past. Would I actively seek him out if I knew he was home at the same time that I was just to catch up with him? Uh...NO.

Since NC's murder, I have lost several nights of sleep wrestiling with my conscience as to if and how BC's life could have escalated to this. My heart is broken for BOTH families, particularly NC's and particularly for those poor little girls.

I think I have been fair in my statements. I have made every effort to both filter and hold back emotions. I have also resisted spilling any definately intimate information, which I consider to be private. I could have provided many examples to back up my statements but I have chosen not to. I would hope that people who have read my posts respect the road that I have taken and realize that I am not the bitter, angry ex. I have tried to offer MY own personal insight only, from MY own personal experience only because I thought that it helped others to maybe understand a bit of how BC was when he was in my life so many years ago.

Ok, hopping off my soap box now and going to do some work.

Oh, and just so that I keep to the topic of the thread, I still believe that he is guilty. I find the time frame too small for anyone else to have done it among other things.

:blowkiss:

Thanks for coming back and posting again! We sure do appreciate your unique insight!

 

[jmflu]

This is something my sister would have said about my father just a year ago - in fact she DID say many of these things... My view of him was just the opposite. Almost a year ago Dad fell (he was 80), broke a number of ribs and never came home.. (he died just 4 weeks ago)...

Anyway my sister and I had absolute opposite views of our parent's relationship - I saw my Mom as manipulative ... she saw Dad as emotionally controlling... we have come to realize over this past year that our extreme views were NOT correct ... and a little of each was there - We only see what we either WANT to see or are ALLOWED to see ..

As to Brad being so controlling - I don't see it ... but then we only see what is being said ... by people who have totally aligned themselves on one side or the other... and we're a step away from it. The friends are like my sister and I - just seeing what we wanted to see or were allowed to see.

I find it very hard to accept he was so controlling when Nancy obviously had the freedom to come/go ... have a LOT of outside interaction with friends.

Did Brad do it? I'm on the fence ... I can see him doing it in anger .. Yet somehow all the stories Nancy's friends are telling ring hollow to me ..

Your situation is different than mine, then. I have two sisters and we all feel the same way about this. In fact, my older sister is so angry at my father for the way he treated Mom (and my sister and I after she went off to college) that she has not spoken to him in almost 20 years.

Each of our individual experiences will definitely come into play as to how we see things here. Could be he was controlling, could be he wasn't. I believe he was, because of most people seem to feel he was. Including RKAB, who just posted for us again.

 

[carolinalady]

It's nice to see a thread like this one in Nancy's forum...it may just draw out some lurkers who are intimidated, for whatever reason.

(I recently joined WS, but have been reading here since Laci. I only just recently found how to join through my IP provider because my email address had been the hang up).

I have followed this case, albeit from NY, since it first broke and I have read all the affadavits and news articles. I'm not 100% sure BC did it. I see the troubled marriage and the small window of opportunity for anyone else to have murdered NC, but I'm just not fully convinced and the autopsy release didn't really sway me. I am highly suspicious of BC, but I am far from convinced by what we know as of now.

I hope more documents are released soon. I particularly didn't like the latest MH affadavit. I read the first MH affadavit and felt as if he and BC weren't best of friends....just friendly acquaintances because they were neighbors. Maybe I was reading more of a connection between BC and SH that MH blended into the background. When I read the follow up, I felt like LE was barking up the wrong tree for an accomplice.

I know Sleuthygal (hi, by the way...I feel as if I know all you guys from reading here) asked if it was really plausible that MH had spoken with NC at the BBQ and asked if Brad could play tennis with him on Saturday. YES I can totally see that because the previous time he had plans with BC, BC showed up 45 mins late and said it was on account of NC. It totally makes sense to me that I would ask the spouse of someone who had inconvenienced me in the past...just to make sure BC was actually going to show up on time. To me, it made good sense.

I am very troubled by the affairs/ bad marriage aspect, the cleaning of the house by BC, and the small window of opportunity for someone else to have killed NC. I am totally unfazed by BC not attending memorials, etc, because his presence would have brought about as much speculation that he was attending because he's guilty. That's a no-win situation.


I hope two things happen: I hope more evidence than we know of exists and if BC is charged, I hope his trial is ABC (Anywhere but Cary). As a complete outsider, it's tough to read the two sides of friends without canceling them both out. (I cringed when I read MH's recent statement about the "rumor" of NC's friends getting together to write the first set of affadavits and the pressure it was putting on groups of friends).

IF BC is guilty, I don't think the in-fighting of "his and hers" will matter in the least. The case will hinge on the actions of BC (and anyone who helped him). IF BC killed his wife, I hope he never gets out of jail.





I just want to add that I think Jason Y of North Carolina is guilty and that's a bigger locational leap since he alleges he was hundreds of miles away from the crime scene and in a "happy marriage." In every other case I can think of (the Peterson trifecta---Scott, Drew, and Michael), I believe them all to be guilty of killing their wives. I think Casey Anthony killed her daughter.... It's highly unusual, for me, to have such lingering doubt. Sorry for the LONG answer....I have just read here since July and felt a strong slant that BC is guilty. I don't have any inside info---just what's been published and as of now, I'm just not convinced. Thanks for this thread!!

Excellent post! I have many of the same feelings about this case myself.

 

[carolinalady]

I thought we had some of that in the affidavits? Friends who witnessed how BC treated NC?

IIRC, few actually witnessed the behavior. A majority were things that Nancy told them.

 

[rwesafe]

IIRC, few actually witnessed the behavior. A majority were things that Nancy told them.

I read most of them again today and I did not see any that stated that they actually witnessed the behaviors that she described. But again, I read most of them...not all.

One, in particular, states that Nancy told her that she get's $300 a week from Brad, but that was not enough to feed herself and the childern...but it does confirm what he states in his affi. It is difficult to believe that you could not make it on $1200 a month when everything else was being paid by the husband....I know people who live on less....

What if the statement by MH is true about JA freaking out when Brett's name flashed on NC's cell phone and JA became hysterical? It is entirely possible that NC and BA had something going on and JA is the one who snapped....a highly unpopular scenario, but still a distinct possibility....perhaps LE found evidence of email interaction btw NC and BA and that is why they demanded that NC's friends come forward with what they know? It would indeed indicate a new possible motive for murder....

 

[Albert]

Has there been any comments from BC that indicate he was aware of NC and her plans for painting at 9am that Saturday morning?

 

[momto3kids]

Back in August I posted a question. Unexpecting, I got a response from RKAB thru a pm many days later. This was our only communication with the exception of today when I asked her permission to post a portion of her response. With respect to RKAB I will post only the portions she agreed to. Hopefully this can give us a little more insight to BC from someone who knows and has experienced it.


I definately don't think he slept on it. IMO, he went home and grumbled and festered about it and was really really angry when she got home. It would probably start with him making snide comments that, if they were already in "hate" mode, she was probably defensive in her speech back to him (and I would be). I think at that point, with her (in his view) defiance of him.

He would have been absolutely LIVID at being corrected in front of other people at the BBQ. They were probably already on edge if they had been fighting earlier in the day and anything at all that was coming out of her mouth, he was getting more and more agitated by it. He would be storing each and every word in the little backpack in his mind to bring out later to use against her. He wouldn't say anything at the time of the BBQ but later on, he would regurgitate all of it and start a fight. That was his way. Sulk and pout and then when a fight does start, typically with his little snarky comments, he rolls out everything that he's been holding in.

 

[ncnative]

I'm always so glad to hear from RKAB. I know that she has a true knowledge of Brad Cooper's ways, from direct experience. Mom, I have a similar private message stating the same things, from RKAB. I just didn't post it, but realize that you said you asked her. I won't post it, RKAB! But thanks for what you said.

You know, I've mentioned that you have been around on WS, RKAB, and that you personally had a relationship with BC in the past. A long while back I mentioned that, but I don't think some people got it, and made "remarks" to me, when I knew what I was talking about regarding you and BC. Now, someone else, Mom, has come along as well as RKAB has resurfaced. So now I suppose I will be taken more seriously, though it's been a while.

RKAB, you need to come down here and talk to the prosecuters and the LE!

 

[SleuthyGal]

RKAB has indeed been very generous in sharing her history and providing insight into this man, at least from her perspective from years ago. And I too am always glad when she visits and provides her thoughts. There are real human beings behind all the characters in this drama and it's good to be reminded of that as well as get a wider-reaching perspective when possible.

 

[momto3kids]

I love the saying...
“A tiger doesn’t change its stripes”

Do we really thing BC is any different than he was back when RKAB knew him?