Benjaman Kyle Statement from Owner of Websleuths.com

[Cubby]

Only because I have to find a little humor in the fact that we were all completely fooled for so long.
Man do I feel like a sucker! :loser:

Hmmm, maybe the 'traumatic' cateracts were caused by the blinding light of the moon, while BK slept along side of the dumpster with his eyes open. :floorlaugh:

Not that we have any confirmation whatsover that BK was found with his eyes open or closed. Logic tells me his eyes were closed when he was found by the Burger King employee and his eyes opened when he was awakened by LE.

End of humor.... thanks for letting me air that.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

From the doe page posted above.

• Dentals: Three teeth missing from upper front and one tooth missing from upper right side of mouth. Not known whether dental problems occurred after or as result of mugging in August of 2004.


Now the above makes no sense. First we know there was never a beating or mugging. Secondly, when a tooth falls out the socket is either fresh or healed. It makes no sense that if a beating actually occured someone could not determine if the sockets were fresh or healed from teeth removed some time ago.

Ah the inconsistencies keep coming....

When we were told by Believe09 that BK would be getting dental work done (back in November of '08) I posted several questions for BK to ask the dentist regarding his dental history, reason for missing teeth, etc. The questions were forwarded to him by Believe09 but he never responded.

IMHO his teeth were not lost directly prior to him being discovered next to the dumpster. (There would more than likely be a great deal of blood on him if he had 4 teeth knocked out of his head!)

So now we are talking about cataracts that went untreated, missing teeth that went untreated (3 of which were front teeth!), scabies that went untreated......

 

[Cubby]

Exactly Voice. If BK lost teeth as a result or being mugged or beaten there would have been plenty of blood.

JMO

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I think we should save the sleuthing on BK's identity until the thread in the PL is open, if that is still going through, just to keep it all in one place. (Not being picky - just suggesting.)

 

[Cubby]

Let's please leave the sleuthing of BK's identity to whatever decision Tricia makes on opening another forum... or ?

The threads for sleuthing possible matches for BK are locked for a reason. We should respect they are currently locked and leave that avenue until a time when any other threads are unlocked.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

Let's please leave the sleuthing of BK's identity to whatever decision Tricia makes on opening another forum... or ?

The threads for sleuthing possible matches for BK are locked for a reason. We should respect they are currently locked and leave that avenue until a time when any other threads are unlocked.

Ok by me! :angel:

 

[Voice4theSilent]

Just wanted to note...."BENJAMAN" was again logged in this morning!

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I would suggest, though, that there's nothing stopping members from starting threads on Herring or other options if they don't already have threads and including some discussion of BK in there - that way, these missing persons get the attention they deserve.

So many missing people... Like bailing out the ocean with a teacup. Where do they all go? I refuse to believe people are like socks getting lost in the dryer. Someone, somewhere, must know... It really fogs the brain at times.

 

[Cubby]

James Herring, missing from Erie PA October of 1988 has his own thread here:


PA James Edward Herring, Erie PA, October 1988 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


I moved any relevent posts regarding James to his thread.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

This may be all good and true, but, where does is it say in any incident report that RHPD said that BK was not sunburned and did not have sores but instead was covered in scabies? You also say that RHPD states that this (BK having scabies)is also reflected in EMT reports.

There are no notations in the RHPD incident report stating that BK was covered in scabies and it wasn't noted that their information that is on their incident report is also backed up by what is stated in the EMT reports. So, where did you get this information? It is not on the incident report.

Was it in a conversation with RHPD and there are no papers that support this information? Is there another report? You already said there wasn't a a police report because there wasn't any crime committed. Was there another incident report or some other paperwork that RHPD filled out at the end of the day with other details?

Question by RKnowley: 2. What we did know was that he was found naked, sunburned, had sores & was unresponsive next to a dumpster at Burger King.

Answer by Kentjbkent:According to RHPD detectives, BK was found naked but was not sunburned nor had sores. He was covered in scabies. RHPD states this is also reflected in EMT reports. RHPD also stated that BK was not "unresponsive". He was sleeping near the dumpster inside the corral when officers arrived on the scene but was easily aroused. The "unresponsive" description was in relation to his reluctance to answer any questions posed by officers, apart from complaining of back pain.

Lots to comment on here but first wanted to make sure you are clear on the EMT reports.

There is MORE than one EMT report. Benjaman was transported by ambulance, accompanied by EMTs, on at least THREE occasions, and ALL THREE would generate an EMT report of transit.

The FIRST EMT report was generated when Benjaman was transported from Burger King to St Josephs Hospital. At that time, EMT filled out a report concerning the condition of BK, but did NOT diagnose any medical conditions (hence, their "sores" reference....they are NOT physicians).

The SECOND EMT report was generated when Benjaman was transferred to East Georgia. At the time of this transport, Benjaman HAD received an official diagnosis by a physician and these diagnosis would be reflected in this EMT/transport record.

The THIRD EMT report was generated when Benjaman was transported (transferred) to Memorial Hospital. Like the second transport, Benjaman had been diagnosed at this point and the EMT report for this tranport would include his diagnosis.

There may yet be a fourth EMT report depending on whether or not Benjaman was transported by ambulance to Union Mission upon his discharge from Memorial Health.

 

[eleven]

In my experience police would not document "naked man sleeping next to dumpster with scabies" in their incident report as the scabies is unconsequencial to the report. If he had been beaten then for sure it would have been in there but a skin disorder or rash would not be part of the incident report....especially since it wasn't caused by him being there or had anything to do with him being asleep next to the dumpster.

I am guessing scabies came from someone who could actually diagnose it, not from the police or the EMT.

I believe someone else on this thread mentioned that "unresponsive" in this instance meant he was not able or willing to tell them his name or any information when he was asked.

The whole "unresponsive" versus "willing to respond" really intrigues me about this case. I have worked with LE and ED (emergency dept.) staff for many years, and we work very closely with LE and EMT's/medics on a daily basis. I cannot tell you how many incident reports written by LE I have read, probably hundreds. Same goes for EMS reports. In my experience, if a subject or pt (patient) is either not willing or chooses not to respond, that is normally documented as "subject/pt refusing" to respond. The only time I have seen the word "unresponsive" used, (hundreds), is when the pt/subject is, for whatever reason, UNABLE to respond.

I know that any LE or other medical professional on here can vouge for this 100%.

 

[Kentjbkent]

This may be all good and true, but, where does is it say in any incident report that RHPD said that BK was not sunburned and did not have sores but instead was covered in scabies? You also say that RHPD states that this (BK having scabies)is also reflected in EMT reports.

There are no notations in the RHPD incident report stating that BK was covered in scabies and it wasn't noted that their information that is on their incident report is also backed up by what is stated in the EMT reports. So, where did you get this information? It is not on the incident report.

Was it in a conversation with RHPD and there are no papers that support this information? Is there another report? You already said there wasn't a a police report because there wasn't any crime committed. Was there another incident report or some other paperwork that RHPD filled out at the end of the day with other details?

I will try one more time to clarify what has been stated earlier in this thread.

There is ONLY ONE incident report that was written in regards to this incident detailing the call for assistance on the morning of August 31, 2004 by RHPD. I believe you have seen and read this report per your previous posts.

The comments underlined above were made by Capt Mike Albritton of RHPD, who was the immediate supervisor of the officers and detective who were on the scene.

I personally met with Capt. Mike Albritton in person, in his office, for approximately 2 hours to discuss and ask questions pertaining to this case in November of 2009.

During this meeting, Capt Albritton stated, in response to my question, that Benjaman was NOT sunburned, was not injured, did not have any ant bites, but was covered in scabies. (My question was in regards to claims by NB that BK was sunburned and covered in ant bites).

Capt Albritton stated at that time that the EMTs noted this in their report. (The actual term used in the EMT report was "sores").

Further information provided by Capt Albritton can be found in earlier posts in this thread.

Capt. Albritton also took interest in the information provided to him during this meeting that Benjaman and NB were both posting on this forum, and I provided a link to this forum at his request.

 

[Cubby]

The whole "unresponsive" versus "willing to respond" really intrigues me about this case. I have worked with LE and ED (emergency dept.) staff for many years, and we work very closely with LE and EMT's/medics on a daily basis. I cannot tell you how many incident reports written by LE I have read, probably hundreds. Same goes for EMS reports. In my experience, if a subject or pt (patient) is either not willing or chooses not to respond, that is normally documented as "subject/pt refusing" to respond. The only time I have seen the word "unresponsive" used, (hundreds), is when the pt/subject is, for whatever reason, UNABLE to respond.

I know that any LE or other medical professional on here can vouge for this 100%.

eleven, may I ask, in the above scenario's you mention was the term or phrase "subject/pt refusing" in relation to a crime or both incidents where a crime may or may not have occured?

 

[eleven]

eleven, may I ask, in the above scenario's you mention was the term or phrase "subject/pt refusing" in relation to a crime or both incidents where a crime may or may not have occured?

Both. In LE Incident and EMS scene reports, if the pt is unable to respond for whatever reason, whether a crime has been or is suspected of being committed, or for medical reasons with no indications of a crime, the pt is deemed "unresponsive". If the pt is choosing not to respond and just doesn't want to answer questions, reports are normally worded that the pt is refusing to respond. If the pt is refusing to respond, it is noted that the pt is "uncooperative" as well. Of course, this is all in my own experience, however, I believe that ALL LE/EMS personnel know the difference in the two terms. Actually, I can say with certainty that EMS personnel are taught in school that the term unresponsive is used in cases where a pt CAN'T respond, again, for whatever reason.

Obviously, I wasn't there the day BK was found...just giving my insight (for what it's worth) on the terminology that is used when someone is refusing to answer questions (i.e., being uncooperative) versus being unable to respond (unresponsive). When the term "unresponsive" is used, it is normally followed by HOW the pt is unresponsive...i.e., unsresponsive to verbal questioning/commands, exterior stimuli, painful stimuli, etc.

That's why I am confused by the term "unresponsive" being used and it being equated to BK refusing to answer questions. IMO, they are two totally different and separate things.

 

[Cubby]

Thank you eleven. Having never read an incident report or EMT report outside of what I have read at WS, perhaps I misunderstood. It was my understanding since BK was not unconscious or semi conscious, he was able to respond.

 

[annemc2]

My hubby (MD) and I (nurse practitioner) agree with eleven's explanation of "unresponsive" vs. "refuses to answer"/selectively mute/uncooperative when charting, FWIW.

Also it is *highly* unlikely that there is a fourth EMS transport log because ambulances are not used after hospital discharges unless someone is being transferred to an equivalent or higher level of care. People may be given a taxi voucher or bus token if they need assistance with transportation.

 

[Wendy101]

I think your right Cubby.

Here is a posting from above:

Answer by Kentjbkent:According to RHPD detectives, BK was found naked but was not sunburned nor had sores. He was covered in scabies. RHPD states this is also reflected in EMT reports. RHPD also stated that BK was not "unresponsive". He was sleeping near the dumpster inside the corral when officers arrived on the scene but was easily aroused. The "unresponsive" description was in relation to his reluctance to answer any questions posed by officers, apart from complaining of back pain.

Thank you eleven. Having never read an incident report or EMT report outside of what I have read at WS, perhaps I misunderstood. It was my understanding since BK was not unconscious or semi conscious, he was able to respond.

 

[Cubby]

I think your right Cubby.

Here is a posting from above:

Answer by Kentjbkent:According to RHPD detectives, BK was found naked but was not sunburned nor had sores. He was covered in scabies. RHPD states this is also reflected in EMT reports. RHPD also stated that BK was not "unresponsive". He was sleeping near the dumpster inside the corral when officers arrived on the scene but was easily aroused. The "unresponsive" description was in relation to his reluctance to answer any questions posed by officers, apart from complaining of back pain.

So than the description of what was in the EMT reports came from RHPD verbally, hence their explaination of unresponsive? :waitasec:

If it was a verbal description that would explain the use of the words 'not unresponsive'. At least it sounds that way.........

 

[Voice4theSilent]

Ok, so the official report says "The subject was semi conscious but would not respond to us. Cpl. Potts had dispatch notify EMS and they arrived within several minutes. EMS transported the subject to St Josephs Hospital."

The ambulance driver on Dr. Phil said "unresponsive".

Is that the "unresponsive" that is in question here?

 

[Imbackon]

Personally I am still keeping an open mind on this whole matter.
I can see how folks got suspicious, don't get me wrong. I am sorry BK has not logged in and posted, but after spending much of today reading about Amnesia, it is still not clear to me that actual trauma via head hitting or something like that, is a necessary component, albeit rare. But the biggest thing I learned today is that amnesia can also play into what one would do with "future thinking". Apparently future thinking (and this makes sense) is believed to be strongly correlated to being able to use parts of your past experiences. Future thinking to me, includes things making decisions, and maybe he just can't figure out what is best for him. Maybe there were some exagerations, for the sake of getting folks to help him, and he doesn't know how to come clean.
I lean toward him being a hobo, maybe alcoholic, and once the beaten stuff came out, he didn't know quite how to come clean. He may even be relieved a bit if some truths have come out.
Either way, NO ONE RECOGNIZES HIM YET. I would hope that if I was on Dr. Phil, had a wikopedia page devoted to me, and some of the other avenues from stories in papers, that by now, people I went to school with, worked with, partied with, lived near or whatever would have come forward by now. So technically, he is still "missing", whether he now has recovered more memories or not, but he needs to come clean or at least defend some of what has been pointed out.