Book released by Defense Attorney, Nov 2015 #2

[KateB]

Jodi Arias Prosecutor, Defense Attorney Battle Again – In Books About the Infamous Case
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...gain-in-books-about-the-infamous-case-7820643

For more than 11 months, prosecutor Juan Martinez and defense attorney Kirk Nurmi clashed during the trials of convicted boyfriend murderer Jodi Arias.
Now the two lawyers are sparring once again in conflicting books about the case.
Martinez’s book,Conviction: The Untold Story of Putting Jodi Arias Behind Bars, is set to be published in January by William Morrow. And Nurmi self-published his,Trapped with Ms. Arias, this week on Amazon.

Book released by Defense Attorney, Nov 2015 #1

 

[RickshawFan]

About the nude photos, he says poor JA in her braids looked "like a lifeless blow up doll" ....

He's probably referring to Jodi's breasts. He would be correct in referring to them as those of a "lifeless blow up doll".

 

[YESorNO]

Hope4More has requested that I post my notes on Lawrence's book on this thread- (I post a few chapters each day if anyone is interested)

This is what I have so far: (Lawrence's actual words in quotes and italics)
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Trapped With Ms. Arias
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Forward- by Caroline Aeed (fellow student at law school)
----------------------------------------------------

Met at University of Wyoming College of Law

Lawrence passionate and very serious about studies

Was funny

As a student argued in front of the Wyoming Supreme Court several times

Caroline and Lawrence applied for position at the Maricopa Co Public Defender's office after graduation and studied for the bar (L failed 1st time by "only a few pts., but passed second time)

L took on cases that no one else wanted- child molesters, rapists

L was "balanced, serious, and a methodical organized trial lawyer"

L can "stay in 'lawyer mode' with his clients and not get personally involved"

Caroline left to open up private practice and L was to follow her

Plan L had to go into private practice was put on hold because of the murderer's case
======================================================================

Introduction

L had a daily calendar with teachings and philosophy's of Deepak Chopra

Kept one page of the calendar with this thought:

"The best thing that could happen to you is happening right now"

Kept it because "things happen for a reason and somewhere down the road you will discover the meaning"

"writing this book served as an exercise that I hope will get me to the answer of why"- ( why being the murderer's attorney) was "the best thing for me"

writing book is not about making money- it's "more about satisfying my own curiosities, it is also about aiding others"

will hope some readers " might learn something from the truth of what occurred between Ms Arias and Mr Alexander....there are lessons to be learned.. about the unhealthy relationship.. in hopes that they will get out of the relationship before they harm themselves or others.. I think I will anger many readers"

He calls the murderer's supporters "misguided"

doesn't understand why there are "sides" in the case- it's a tragedy that could have been prevented and will discuss how he thinks it could have been prevented
another reason for writing book "besides using it as a therapeutic tool, is redemption"

- took a lot of flak from supporters of both Travis ( "asserting" the murderer's defense" and the murderer's supporters ("not doing enough to show how she was truly innocent [their words not mine]")

- took flak from the media- saying he was a "poor lawyer"

knew exactly what he was doing in trial/case

will discuss: his background, what life and career was before the murderer became his client, how he was assigned to case- up to opening statements on 1/2/2013.

He stated:

"Describing these things may not redeem me in the eyes of some, but that"s okay with me, my true redemption comes from being judged on the truth of who I am and the course I took."

L talks about the "truth"

- according to L- this book will not be his "version of the truth"

- "when I speak of the truth it will be in objective verifiable realities"

- states that "facts are stubborn things"

- "when you put what you mean to believe up against what is actually true, what you want to believe may not be true"

his reasoning for title of book and picture of the handcuffs on cover: he felt trapped into representing the murderer when he couldn't get away from her ("trapped on the case" and "trapped with her")

calling her Ms Arias in the title: "trying to be professional" and "she screamed at me for calling her by her formal name", screaming "she would ruin my career if I didn't follow her commands"

he never called Travis, Mr Alexander "as an expression of disdain, but instead out of respect"

the handcuffs: are "golden" in color because "golden handcuffs" mean- "relates to a situation you do not wish to be in but the money is good"

didn't think the money was worth it

"representing Ms Arias...heck it may even prevent me from ever having a real practice"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts:

So what is the meaning of the word:

redemption-
noun

1. an act of redeeming or atoning for a fault or mistake, or the state of being redeemed.
2. deliverance; rescue.
4. atonement for guilt.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/redemption

A search for redemption is, IMO, to find some resolution of the pain that you have caused others.

Redemption? ( but I think the truth of what one says lies in what one does....guess I will see).

And, to me, being sorry is a sacrament- it's an offering and a gift to others for the wrongs that have been done to them, but I don't think L is sorry.

Looks like L's redemption is #2 (of being "rescued")

He hopes he could redeem himself by making a difference with this book. Lawrence doesn't mean he wants redemption for any pain he has caused, but instead he means that he will be redeemed by what other's have thought wrong about him (because in his eyes, he has done no wrong).
====================================================================

 

[YESorNO]

Trapped With Ms. Arias

Chapter 1

Who is Nurmi?

born in the South

father was in the Navy

moved to Seattle when he was young- all lived with grandparents

parents went to work and school, so grandparents really raised him and "became my parents in a sense"

L's grandfather came to America from Finland, served in WW 11, married a single- mother "when single motherhood was supposedly something to be ashamed of"

spent time fishing, washing car, watching sports with grandfather

spent time "hanging out in the basements of my friend's house and driving huge station wagons" in the '70s

"fondest memories" of his grandmother was watching "Gilligan's Island reruns while she ironed shirts"

loved playing soccer, watching sports, loved dogs and all animals

rescued a bunny from the school science lab snake and brought the bunny home- grandfather made a cage for it at home

loved school- favorite subject math

became a lawyer, in part, because he read a book about lawyers in grade school and because of an incident where a security guard falsely accused L and his friends of stealing candy (they had a receipt) "without any evidence to support their claim"

in high school worked in grocery store bagging groceries

graduated HS year early at 17- planned to become police officer

enrolled in community college- criminal justice courses- kept job at grocery store- sporadically attended the college

became union member grocery store manager - returned to college full-time while working all-night shift as store manager

graduated with BA in Criminal Justice- applied to several Law schools- didn't get in to any- devastated

had kept job as grocery store manager- realized that job was "like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole" and not for him

quit job and enrolled in Grad school to "boost my academic resume....have a better chance of getting into law school"

seeking Ma in History at Central Washington University in Ellensburg- decided not for him and decided on another BA (this time in Psychology)

met his wife in college- married to her since 1993

eventually received his Master's degree of Art in Criminal Justice from Wa State Univ ("go Cougs" he says- LOL)

after Master's had job as a counselor at a residential group home for delinquent youth (house got shut down- not up to code)

returned to retail job

applied to Law school again- accepted at Gonzaga School of Law and Univ of Wyoming- chose Wyoming because wife would be able to complete her degree in education

while attending, worked as the "student director" of the Defender Aid Clinic (students wrote appeals for those convicted of crimes in Wyoming)

graduated- job as law clerk at Maricopa Co Public Defender's office- received license

writes about his first trials

joined Maricopa Co Office of the Public Defender's Capital Unit as DP attorney

in July, 2009, he was 40, married for 15 years, played tennis, struggled with his weight, had 4 lb chihuahua (LOL), grandfather died, grandmother had Parkinson's disease and was dying

"So,having said all of this, whether you like it or not, I have gained a little of the redemption I spoke of in the introduction. Because after reading this chapter whether you love me or hate me at least you are basing your feelings on who I am not who you think I might be simply because in August of 2009, I was assigned by the Public Defender's Office to work as lead counsel to CR 2008-031021-001."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts:

Sounds as if he had a good childhood, IMO, even tho' his parents were very busy- he had his beloved grandparents.

I don't see how his background has "redeemed" him in any way. I always thought he was a "real" lawyer and doesn't have anything to do with how he conducted himself at the trial for the murderer, but I can understand this as, I guess he is very defensive because many people/media ridiculed him as a defense lawyer for the murderer. We shall see......
=======================================================================

Chapter 2

The Ultimate Job of a Capital Defense lawyer

"Killing a human being is a horrible act. Murder is a horrible crime. Most of us who work as defense Councel for captital defendants do so because we believe that the killing of a human being is just as wrong when it is done by a citizen than when it is done by the government who job it is to serve and protect all the citizens...

it's not a fun place to be...

We put up with clients who are oftentimes ungrateful or down right angry about the work we do on their behalf. Based on some of the hate mail..received over the course of the Arias trial, the public seems to be under the impression that someone who serves as a lawyer for a capital defendants supports what the client did....

we appear to be advocating for our clients when we are really advocating for the constitutional rights of our clients.... 'we don't defend the crime, only the constitution and what the client may have done is relatively insignificant to the battle at hand' ...

A capital defense lawyer wins when their client receives a life sentence." (pgs. 16-17)

they also lay down the "foundation" for appeals

not apologizing for his defense of the murderer

does have sympathy for Alexander family, but could not do his job if he let that get in way of defending client

"..if anyone.. thinks that I somehow support what Ms Arias did on June 4, 2008, they are wrong. I did my job...I saved my client"s life. You might not be happy about it because you wanted her to be executed and Ms. Arias may not be happy about receiving a life sentence, but I did my job and if I do say so myself, I did it quite well." (pg 19)
-----------------------------

 

[Hope4More]

YES or NO..... yes!!!!!!

 

[YESorNO]

Trapped With Ms. Arias

Chapter 3

The Defense Team

lead defense never works alone and could not do so- Az law requires 2 defense lawyers

lead counsel must have 5 years of experience- tried numerous felony cases- must have served as a second chair to a lead counsel in capital case that actually went to trial
must have taken legal education courses related to DP each year

must make sure client is informed- "a monumental task when Ms Arias is your client"

talks about relationship of lead and 2nd chair- "bigger deal when you have a client who is looking to manipulate his or her defense team"

Mitigation Specialist- presents mental health issue- has Masters degree in one of the social science -interviews family members, puts school/medical records together

also has an Investigator

had a great team before murderers case- "at a certain point I lost that team and things happened"
-----------------------------------------------

Chapter 4

Here is to Wishing I Never Got the File

L wishes that the murderer "never killed Travis Alexander "

talks about "lessons learned theme"

-the Tweets/social media posts that celebrate that murderer is spending rest of life in prison and is miserable there - upsetting to him, but not because he believes she doesn't deserve to be there- she made choices - is self-imposed- "I offer her no sympathies in that regard"

- doesn't like the celebration her sentence - why celebrate the "entire situation...tragedy and that the world would be a better place if the tragic events of June 4, 2008, never took place"

- talks about mental health and signs of mental heath- urges people to take note of the signs and take actions

- talks about the murderer "many signs of mental illness that went ignored.. she abused animals at a young age (reports that came from her family members)...other family members..said that she would often act strangely and keeps to herself around this same time period"..."something is not right"- nothing done to see if something was wrong with the murderer when she was child

- condemns her parents for ignoring warning signs

- talks about murderer growing weed at 14 yrs old and someone holding knife to her throat at 12 yrs old- drops out of school, leaving home at 17 to live with Bobby- "If Ms. Arias is being truthful, her then boyfriend Bobby abused her physically. There is some evidence...brother confronted Bobby and Bobby responded by waving a sword at him."

- never seeks counseling "If Ms Arias' claims of being an abuse victim were true, one might consider the possibility that some counseling would be in order" even if they were not true, would need counseling

- talks about Matt seeking out her mother when she was 27 that he was concerned for the murderer- thought she was bi-polar- ignored- "went in one ear and out the other"

"Perhaps, I am right and she was a victim of child abuse." (as to why the Arias family ignored the signs and didn't take the murderer to get professional help) "Perhaps she had a personality disorder. whatever the problem....it could have been addressed years ago through medication or counseling. Perhaps if it had, Mr Alexander would still be alive and Ms. Aria would be off somewhere taking pictures." (pg 28)

-doesn't really blame her parents- many people ignore signs of mental illness

- lessons learned: you don't ignore signs of mental illness in children "Do something"

-talks about the murderer having job, pays bills, "functioning in society but when her former boyfriend Darryl talked to her about getting some psychological help, she chose not to do anyhting. When another boyfriend expressed simialr concerns, she also chose to do nothing ... based on her journel wrirings, she knew she was depressed and did nothing. Ms. Arias knew there was something wrong with her mentally, yet she did nothing." (pg 29)

- talks about why functionally mental ill and families ignore issues- stigma of mental illness

- talks about women in general- "If a man cannot give you what you want out of a relationship, get out of the relationship... you cannot change him."

- talks about Travis and his "participation" - "should have taken steps...to rid himself of MS. Arias" but not blaming him

- Travis' friends told him to get away from the murderer- he didn't listen- did not take warnings seriously and "invited Ms. Arias into his home to have sex in June of 2008 leads one to believe that he did not take those warnings seriously."

- "To be clear, I am not saying that Mr. Alexander is to blame for his own murder or that he deserved to die in such a brutal fashion or at all for that matter"

-talks about "if someone is driving you so crazy that your response to them is to act out of character in a negative way (as Travis did) or engage in self-destructive ways (as the murderer did), end the relationship."

-evidence stated that the murderer was "driving Mr. Alexander crazy...yet he was still having a sexual relationship with her...should have ended the relationship with her."

-again- not blaming Travis but thinks Travis, because he was "type of person who wanted to help others", would want others who "are reading this.. in unhealthy relationships to simply walk away...before the unhealthy becomes the tragic...he would want people to learn from this tragedy." (pg 32)
==============================================================================

 

[Hope4More]

Trapped With Ms. Arias

Chapter 3

The Defense Team

lead defense never works alone and could not do so- Az law requires 2 defense lawyers

lead counsel must have 5 years of experience- tried numerous felony cases- must have served as a second chair to a lead counsel in capital case that actually went to trial
must have taken legal education courses related to DP each year

must make sure client is informed- "a monumental task when Ms Arias is your client"

talks about relationship of lead and 2nd chair- "bigger deal when you have a client who is looking to manipulate his or her defense team"

Mitigation Specialist- presents mental health issue- has Masters degree in one of the social science -interviews family members, puts school/medical records together

also has an Investigator

had a great team before murderers case- "at a certain point I lost that team and things happened"
-----------------------------------------------

Chapter 4

Here is to Wishing I Never Got the File

L wishes that the murderer "never killed Travis Alexander "

talks about "lessons learned theme"

-the Tweets/social media posts that celebrate that murderer is spending rest of life in prison and is miserable there - upsetting to him, but not because he believes she doesn't deserve to be there- she made choices - is self-imposed- "I offer her no sympathies in that regard"

- doesn't like the celebration her sentence - why celebrate the "entire situation...tragedy and that the world would be a better place if the tragic events of June 4, 2008, never took place"

- talks about mental health and signs of mental heath- urges people to take note of the signs and take actions

- talks about the murderer "many signs of mental illness that went ignored.. she abused animals at a young age (reports that came from her family members)...other family members..said that she would often act strangely and keeps to herself around this same time period"..."something is not right"- nothing done to see if something was wrong with the murderer when she was child

- condemns her parents for ignoring warning signs

- talks about murderer growing weed at 14 yrs old and someone holding knife to her throat at 12 yrs old- drops out of school, leaving home at 17 to live with Bobby- "If Ms. Arias is being truthful, her then boyfriend Bobby abused her physically. There is some evidence...brother confronted Bobby and Bobby responded by waving a sword at him."

- never seeks counseling "If Ms Arias' claims of being an abuse victim were true, one might consider the possibility that some counseling would be in order" even if they were not true, would need counseling

- talks about Matt seeking out her mother when she was 27 that he was concerned for the murderer- thought she was bi-polar- ignored- "went in one ear and out the other"

"Perhaps, I am right and she was a victim of child abuse." (as to why the Arias family ignored the signs and didn't take the murderer to get professional help) "Perhaps she had a personality disorder. whatever the problem....it could have been addressed years ago through medication or counseling. Perhaps if it had, Mr Alexander would still be alive and Ms. Aria would be off somewhere taking pictures." (pg 28)

-doesn't really blame her parents- many people ignore signs of mental illness

- lessons learned: you don't ignore signs of mental illness in children "Do something"

-talks about the murderer having job, pays bills, "functioning in society but when her former boyfriend Darryl talked to her about getting some psychological help, she chose not to do anyhting. When another boyfriend expressed simialr concerns, she also chose to do nothing ... based on her journel wrirings, she knew she was depressed and did nothing. Ms. Arias knew there was something wrong with her mentally, yet she did nothing." (pg 29)

- talks about why functionally mental ill and families ignore issues- stigma of mental illness

- talks about women in general- "If a man cannot give you what you want out of a relationship, get out of the relationship... you cannot change him."

- talks about Travis and his "participation" - "should have taken steps...to rid himself of MS. Arias" but not blaming him

- Travis' friends told him to get away from the murderer- he didn't listen- did not take warnings seriously and "invited Ms. Arias into his home to have sex in June of 2008 leads one to believe that he did not take those warnings seriously."

- "To be clear, I am not saying that Mr. Alexander is to blame for his own murder or that he deserved to die in such a brutal fashion or at all for that matter"

-talks about "if someone is driving you so crazy that your response to them is to act out of character in a negative way (as Travis did) or engage in self-destructive ways (as the murderer did), end the relationship."

-evidence stated that the murderer was "driving Mr. Alexander crazy...yet he was still having a sexual relationship with her...should have ended the relationship with her."

-again- not blaming Travis but thinks Travis, because he was "type of person who wanted to help others", would want others who "are reading this.. in unhealthy ralationships to simply walk away...before the unhealthy becomes the tragic...he would want people to learn from this tragedy." (pg 32)
=========================================================================

He writes a book which seems to suggest he believes Travis was a pedophile and a crappy Mormon hypocrite who used women.

How dare he speak for Travis at all, much less to presume what message Travis would have for people in "unhealthy" relationships??!


Travis did not invite that foul killer to his house on June 4, Bobby (and the killer) were probably high and drunk when Bobby waved that sword around- if he even did, etc. etc.

And Nurmi even thinks she was actually abused as a child??

His obvious inability to think his way out of a paper bag is compounded by his breathtaking ignorance about basic psychological concepts. .....

 

[YESorNO]

This is today's post:

Trapped with Ms. Arias:

SECTION 2

My New Case

normally each defense team has 2-3 cases- plenty of work

August, 2009- only had 1- team would get next case -the State of AZ vs the murderer was next

will discuss being assigned and "initial assessment of the entire case from a legal perspective" , various pieces of evidence, crime scene, evidence as it relates to the murderer, booking photo, assessment of Travis, relationship of Travis and the murderer, and last chapter- assessment of JM

will discuss "all of these things from a legal perspective"

looking at things in a "clinical manner" and is "not a sign of disrespect to Mr. Alexander or his family"

"Please do not think that as I relay these thoughts to you that I am not conscious of the fact that this case and my client's actions caused a great deal of pain to many." (pg 34)
===========================================

Chapter 5

The Day My Life Changed Forever

August 28- Judge Steinle issued order to appoint L to case

was told by supervisor that case was about: client who was female, no criminal record, had been on a CBS program called "48 Hours", accused of killing boyfriend, case in system for a while, getting case because former atty had "some sort of ethical conflict that necessitated their need to withdraw from the case."

L told boss that "whatever happens, she won't get the death penalty"
===================================

Chapter 6

Preparing to Meet Ms. Arias

watched CBS show- "48 Hour" (known as the "ninja story") with mitigation spec. before he met the murderer - noticed that no one spoke "in support" of the murderer- that interview took place in Maricopa's Etrella jail (figured that former atty advised murderer not to do interview which she did anyway)

"Thus, before I before I even met Ms. Arias I strongly suspected that I had a client who would not follow the advice I gave her unless she happened to agree to it. I had every reason to believe that Ms. Arias was going to do as she pleased and in this regard, she will be a difficult client."

knew she wasn't being truthful in video- "clearly unbelievable story" and told to public on TV

speculated that her "image" might be important to her or that the murderer believed that she could convince everyone that the ninja story was true
from the video, thought she was "fairly smart and articulate person...had the ability to navigate polite society"
=======================================================

Chapter 7

Meeting Ms Arias For the First Time

doesn't remember exact date- murderer was just another client at that time

Ist goal when meeting new client: get to know them and get their trust, just sit back and listen to client, try to get info on family, contact info, and find out what's important to client

L avoids confrontations so client is not suspicious of his motives

on first day, L learned that the murderer "can sure ramble on all sorts of things, so I just listened to her for about an hour or so...learned a great deal about her that had nothing to do with the crime...her mannerism and deposition were such that it was as if we were talking in a coffee shop." (pg 44)

murderer seemed not to care about case- not talking to him like he was her lawyer- flirtatious- eventually switching to being polite and friendly after L didn't react to her flirting/manipulations

felt she was testing him on how she was going to get him to follow her wishes

felt she was immature in CBS video which made him suspect that she was victim of sexual abuse (will expand later on in book on this feeling)

felt he was dealing with "very disturbed woman"
--------------------------

Next:

Chapter 8
My Initial Review of the Evidence Related to the Crime

Chapter 9
My Initial Review of the Evidence related to Ms. Arias

Chapter 10
My Initial Thoughts on the Booking Photo
--------------------------------------------------------

 

[Hope4More]

Immaturity = evidence of child abuse? Huh?

 

[Steve44]

Immaturity = evidence of child abuse? Huh?

Is there anyone who he thinks wasn't abused as a child?

I guess he thinks because all children are vulnerable, they were all abused.

I would bet that a big part of his strategy for defending accused child abusers would be to establish that they were abused as children as well. There are no autonomous perpetrators, only victims, and the sad consequences, so don't blame this victim, you mean, naive jury!

 

[Steve44]

- doesn't like the celebration her sentence - why celebrate the "entire situation...tragedy and that the world would be a better place if the tragic events of June 4, 2008, never took place"

Nobody is celebrating the entire situation, only how it ended for her, her failure to avoid responsibility, and her failure, via her defense team, to unjustly sully the reputation of the victim. It's entirely understandable to celebrate such an ending, given that the situation was what it was, and the many possible alternative endings.

 

[G&AMom]

He writes a book which seems to suggest he believes Travis was a pedophile and a crappy Mormon hypocrite who used women.

How dare he speak for Travis at all, much less to presume what message Travis would have for people in "unhealthy" relationships??!


Travis did not invite that foul killer to his house on June 4, Bobby (and the killer) were probably high and drunk when Bobby waved that sword around- if he even did, etc. etc.

And Nurmi even thinks she was actually abused as a child??

His obvious inability to think his way out of a paper bag is compounded by his breathtaking ignorance about basic psychological concepts. .....

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. Nurmi seems to have believed a lot of what Jodi says happened because there must be some reason why she behaves the way she does, oh, here are a bunch of stories, so that explains it all.

He doesn't seem to grasp at all that she might have made up all these stories to justify her behavior, not that they are true. He also doesn't seem to realize that her borderline personality disorder may have caused her to misinterpret things people said or did that, again, were not accurate.

I remember when I began following this case on WS at the very beginning in January 2013, there were still quite a few people who were saying, in effect, Travis must have done something to cause her to "snap." The more you heard about the case, particularly when Jodi herself got on the stand, the more you realized that this had nothing to do with anything Travis did and nothing to do with "snapping." Nurmi just never seemed to get beyond that "Travis must have done something" point.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[Hope4More]

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. Nurmi seems to have believed a lot of what Jodi says happened because there must be some reason why she behaves the way she does, oh, here are a bunch of stories, so that explains it all.

He doesn't seem to grasp at all that she might have made up all these stories to justify her behavior, not that they are true. He also doesn't seem to realize that her borderline personality disorder may have caused her to misinterpret things people said or did that, again, were not accurate.

I remember when I began following this case on WS at the very beginning in January 2013, there were still quite a few people who were saying, in effect, Travis must have done something to cause her to "snap." The more you heard about the case, particularly when Jodi herself got on the stand, the more you realized that this had nothing to do with anything Travis did and nothing to do with "snapping." Nurmi just never seemed to get beyond that "Travis must have done something" point.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

I can't wait to read JM's book. But the book I would most like to read won't be written. I'd love to read a book about any trial, doesn't have to be this one, that covers the POV of each of the players in a capital case.

I'd like to know if defense attys rely on defense mechanisms to protect themselves from having to not only defend the indefensible, but to survive being in daily contact with their sometimes genuinely evil clients. Perhaps it helps to rationalize their clients' terrible crimes by seeing them as victims too? Despite evidence to the contrary?

And in that book I'd love to read how the prosecutor decided what narrative to tell, how s/he conducted voir dire.... everything about trial strategy. And from the sitting judge...what did it feel like presiding over the trial? Did s/he reach conclusions while the trial unfolded? How much a concern was the threat of a successful appeal by the defendant? And not least, from the jurors.....everything. A blow by blow account,, from the first time walking into the courtroom through how it felt to go home after the verdict.

The only POV I'm entirely disinterested in hearing about, especially in this case, is that of the defendant. The crime committed speaks for itself.

 

[RickshawFan]

Is there anyone who he thinks wasn't abused as a child?

I guess he thinks because all children are vulnerable, they were all abused.

I would bet that a big part of his strategy for defending accused child abusers would be to establish that they were abused as children as well. There are no autonomous perpetrators, only victims, and the sad consequences, so don't blame this victim, you mean, naive jury!

I wrote a note in our previous thread about how a whole class of sex offenders are 19-year-old boys with 16-year-old girlfriends, yes, high school kids who are doing what normal high school kids do. It's just that the girl's parents object, and next thing, he's a felon, does jail time, is supervised for years, and for the rest of his life has to register as a sex offender.
So, I think we have to be careful about lumping sex offenders all together: we could be talking about half of the high school seniors in the country, since so many will have underage girlfriends. This could be your son, your husband, your brother.....

Nurmi almost certainly had cases like this, and these "sex offenders" would have been lucky to have him.

 

[T-4-2]

He's probably referring to Jodi's breasts. He would be correct in referring to them as those of a "lifeless blow up doll".

Lol... "lifeless blow up doll." As opposed to what other kind of blow up doll?

 

[IfIMay]

Lol... "lifeless blow up doll." As opposed to what other kind of blow up doll?

Maybe DJ Kinky Kirk's doll squeals when touched...LOL! I don't think I could spend 2 minutes reading his writing if it's anything like listening to him talk. I still have nightmares of his "let's back up a minute..." UGH. Thank you to all for giving us a view of his book and analysis. I don't think I could stand it.

 

[Steve44]

I wrote a note in our previous thread about how a whole class of sex offenders are 19-year-old boys with 16-year-old girlfriends, yes, high school kids who are doing what normal high school kids do. It's just that the girl's parents object, and next thing, he's a felon, does jail time, is supervised for years, and for the rest of his life has to register as a sex offender.
So, I think we have to be careful about lumping sex offenders all together: we could be talking about half of the high school seniors in the country, since so many will have underage girlfriends. This could be your son, your husband, your brother.....

Nurmi almost certainly had cases like this, and these "sex offenders" would have been lucky to have him.

But a better strategy for Nurmi to follow in cases like this, imo, would be to point out the obvious injustice of applying the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit of the law, since it obviously wasn't written for cases like this.

I'm not sure how 'lucky' they would be to have Nurmi trying to convince the Jury that these probably normal young men were sexually abused as children, which is what my original post was saying.

 

[YESorNO]

Trapped with Ms. Arias:

Chapter 8

My Initial Review of the Evidence Related to the Crime

most evidence was disclosed by State (police reports, videos , crime scene photos, interviews with murderer's family, school records, etc.)

State didn't disclose many text messages/emails

"one of the most gruesome crime scenes I have ever viewed"

"told ..a story of unmitigated rage" "one heck of a fight"

questioned "who did this?" (ninja story at the time), if murderer- done alone?, did she have help?, if alone, how did she do this?

speaks about some scenario of another person helping her, but no real evidence that there was an accomplice- ditched that theory

concluded that if the murderer killed Travis, she did it alone, but had to consider that perhaps ninja story was true, but never made sense to him

as atty had to consider her story at this time "to consider merits of the story of which there truly were none"- see if it can be disproved "by any physical evidence so that I can either confront her with that evidence or be prepared if somebody else were to do the same"

only DNA found was from the murderer and from Travis, but didn't mean that there wasn't 2 ninjas- no other evidence found that could disprove either theory (she alone or 2 ninjas)

Det Flores could not, at this point, conclude that ninja story was false- only confronted her with "no evidence to support ninja story and that it made no sense"

he received many letters/emails on theories from attys, investigators, well-meaning supporters and others (some letters from supporters "that might be best described as conspiratorial...Lots believed....Mormon conspiracy"- might publish the letters one day

details of crime scene:

-TA was shot in face

-bullet traveled downward (means gun was above him)

-Ta was stabbed in chest and throat was slashed

reports stated that there was struggle- fatal blows, stab in chest, slashing of throat, came last

defensive wounds, TA alive at that time and struggling before fatal blows

at some point stood at sink, aspirated blood

went down hallway trying to escape

autopsy revealed numerous stab wounds to his back

crime scene didn't tell more because of water, movement at scene, and scene was altered by cover-up

"What I believe now is different from what I believed before the trial began"

anything he states in this book is what he believed before the trial

again states how much TA suffered

TA's body not found for "about 5 days"- shocking to him- TA had 2 roommates

suspicious that no one could smell decomposing body (police officers noticed the "second they entered the home") roommates did not notice or perhaps rotting food?

police also suspicious, but after interviews, determined that roommates had nothing to do with it

evidence pointed to crime of passion, crime of anger

roomates not home at the time

only person that could be placed at the crime scene was the murderer- in 3 different ways

-she admitted it

-DNA

-the nude pics on TA's camera

no evidence that anyone not welcomed in home was there- "..there was no evidence that Ms Arias was unwelcomed in..home"- no forced entry found

text message found on TA's phone "demonstrated that Mr. Alexander wanted Jodi Arias in his house. It also seemed to defy logic that anyone would take nude pictures of an unwanted guest"

evidence collected outside of house- interviews with friends of TA (many called murderer "stalker or a crazy ex-girlfriend who Mr. Alexander didn't want anything to do with")
-----------------------------------

Chapter 9

My Initial Review of the Evidence Related to Ms Arias

needed to understand the murderer- "sense of her tone, her mannerism, and to look for any signs of abnormal behavior"

had lots of interview tapes from Det Flores and female Det- thought they were strange

knew that she lied about being at house- not uncommon lie, sort of expected

mannerisms noted: that the murderer "expected people to believe her lies" (believed that she could fool people, believed she was so smart, or that she convinced

herself that she didn't do it- and/or mind could not accept reality of situation)

on tapes, she seemed very immature to him- "child-like demeanor", acted like a "restless child" when singing, doing handstands, childlike concerns about media image
thought something "was off, she was strange"

reviewed interviews with parents- not flattering image of their daughter

-described her as secretive,obsessed with TA, cold, crazy "because she acted 'so normal' when she returned home from Mesa"

L said "did not seem as if her parents cared about her much at all..it's very sad"

reviewed all statements made about the murderer in police reports and interviews by former attys with her family, friends, and former co-workers (often contradictory- not

consistent with any mental issues)

thought that there was something wrong with client psychologically "What was wrong with her?"

list of contradictions from others' interviewed- she was "nice quiet shy girl..some overly sexual wild woman..portrayed as being clean and professional...lazy" and

other contradictions

had his "hands on a mess"

she was described as "being different" as child ( not playing with other children- preferring to draw/read; mean toward animals, a loner, smoked weed; would not

shower "for several days")

claims that, to him, she was "likely a victim of sexual abuse at some point in her childhood. Could I prove it was actual evidence? No. This simply became my theory based upon my observations of her.. I was pretty sure that this abuse occurred..by family member or someone who was very close to her family. To be clear I'm not talking about the incident you heard about during the trial when Ms. Arias was about 2 years of age and she was touched and/or grinded on by a slightly older male family member". (pg 56-57) not "impactful enough" to cause her strange behavior.

"...young children typically do not touch other children in this manner unless someone taught them to do that or told them such behavior was okay"- had experience in

dealing with sexual deviants.. "It is my theory that whoever victimized this child also victimized Ms. Arias and possibly other members of her family"

but did not have any proof of sexual abuse of the murderer when she was a child

talks about sexual abuse and the people who abuse

"..after being sexually abused, the person became a victim of the entire world and whenever something bad happened to that person it was not their fault, but instead of

the fault of another person or the world at large. This Ms. Arias to a tee." (pg. 57)

another thing learned is that victims tend to be "very manipulative people", blends into society- everyone thinks these victims are normal/trustworthy- also fits the

murderer "to a tee"

talks about murderer's sister, Angela - went to rehab as tennager "something was going on with the Arias girls...'where there is smoke there was fire' and there sure was

a lot of smoke signaling"

never found proof for his sexual abuse theory tho'
----------------------

My thoughts:

BBM sure sounds like the murderer Lawrence
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chapter 10

My Initial Thoughts on the Booking Photo

had to be concerned about the photo and the "story" it would tell to world/jury

"oddness" of photo "was overpowering"

never seen one like it- "looked so darn happy"- she "showed joy" and that stood out the most for him

thought she was "thrilled" to take it- idea that the world would see it and she would be "known worldwide for something" even if it was a bad something like murder

showed no shame- posed with pride (shows "severely mentally ill")

hoped the amount of mental illness would show in the pic (with the jury)
================================================== ============

Next:

Chapter 11
My Initial Review of the Evidence as it Related to Mr. Alexander

Chapter 12
My Initial review of the Evidence as it Related to the Relationship

Chapter 13
My Initial Review of Mr. Martinez

End of Section 2 (pg 89)
==============================

 

[Hope4More]

Trapped with Ms. Arias:

Chapter 8

My Initial Review of the Evidence Related to the Crime

most evidence was disclosed by State (police reports, videos , crime scene photos, interviews with murderer's family, school records, etc.)

State didn't disclose many text messages/emails

"one of the most gruesome crime scenes I have ever viewed"

"told ..a story of unmitigated rage" "one heck of a fight"

questioned "who did this?" (ninja story at the time), if murderer- done alone?, did she have help?, if alone, how did she do this?

speaks about some scenario of another person helping her, but no real evidence that there was an accomplice- ditched that theory

concluded that if the murderer killed Travis, she did it alone, but had to consider that perhaps ninja story was true, but never made sense to him

as atty had to consider her story at this time "to consider merits of the story of which there truly were none"- see if it can be disproved "by any physical evidence so that I can either confront her with that evidence or be prepared if somebody else were to do the same"

only DNA found was from the murderer and from Travis, but didn't mean that there wasn't 2 ninjas- no other evidence found that could disprove either theory (she alone or 2 ninjas)

Det Flores could not, at this point, conclude that ninja story was false- only confronted her with "no evidence to support ninja story and that it made no sense"

he received many letters/emails on theories from attys, investigators, well-meaning supporters and others (some letters from supporters "that might be best described as conspiratorial...Lots believed....Mormon conspiracy"- might publish the letters one day

details of crime scene:

-TA was shot in face

-bullet traveled downward (means gun was above him)

-Ta was stabbed in chest and throat was slashed

reports stated that there was struggle- fatal blows, stab in chest, slashing of throat, came last

defensive wounds, TA alive at that time and struggling before fatal blows

at some point stood at sink, aspirated blood

went down hallway trying to escape

autopsy revealed numerous stab wounds to his back

crime scene didn't tell more because of water, movement at scene, and scene was altered by cover-up

"What I believe now is different from what I believed before the trial began"

anything he states in this book is what he believed before the trial

again states how much TA suffered

TA's body not found for "about 5 days"- shocking to him- TA had 2 roommates

suspicious that no one could smell decomposing body (police officers noticed the "second they entered the home") roommates did not notice or perhaps rotting food?

police also suspicious, but after interviews, determined that roommates had nothing to do with it

evidence pointed to crime of passion, crime of anger

roomates not home at the time

only person that could be placed at the crime scene was the murderer- in 3 different ways

-she admitted it

-DNA

-the nude pics on TA's camera

no evidence that anyone not welcomed in home was there- "..there was no evidence that Ms Arias was unwelcomed in..home"- no forced entry found

text message found on TA's phone "demonstrated that Mr. Alexander wanted Jodi Arias in his house. It also seemed to defy logic that anyone would take nude pictures of an unwanted guest"

evidence collected outside of house- interviews with friends of TA (many called murderer "stalker or a crazy ex-girlfriend who Mr. Alexander didn't want anything to do with")
-----------------------------------

Chapter 9

My Initial Review of the Evidence Related to Ms Arias

needed to understand the murderer- "sense of her tone, her mannerism, and to look for any signs of abnormal behavior"

had lots of interview tapes from Det Flores and female Det- thought they were strange

knew that she lied about being at house- not uncommon lie, sort of expected

mannerisms noted: that the murderer "expected people to believe her lies" (believed that she could fool people, believed she was so smart, or that she convinced

herself that she didn't do it- and/or mind could not accept reality of situation)

on tapes, she seemed very immature to him- "child-like demeanor", acted like a "restless child" when singing, doing handstands, childlike concerns about media image
thought something "was off, she was strange"

reviewed interviews with parents- not flattering image of their daughter

-described her as secretive,obsessed with TA, cold, crazy "because she acted 'so normal' when she returned home from Mesa"

L said "did not seem as if her parents cared about her much at all..it's very sad"

reviewed all statements made about the murderer in police reports and interviews by former attys with her family, friends, and former co-workers (often contradictory- not

consistent with any mental issues)

thought that there was something wrong with client psychologically "What was wrong with her?"

list of contradictions from others' interviewed- she was "nice quiet shy girl..some overly sexual wild woman..portrayed as being clean and professional...lazy" and

other contradictions

had his "hands on a mess"

she was described as "being different" as child ( not playing with other children- preferring to draw/read; mean toward animals, a loner, smoked weed; would not

shower "for several days")

claims that, to him, she was "likely a victim of sexual abuse at some point in her childhood. Could I prove it was actual evidence? No. This simply became my theory based upon my observations of her.. I was pretty sure that this abuse occurred..by family member or someone who was very close to her family. To be clear I'm not talking about the incident you heard about during the trial when Ms. Arias was about 2 years of age and she was touched and/or grinded on by a slightly older male family member". (pg 56-57) not "impactful enough" to cause her strange behavior.

"...young children typically do not touch other children in this manner unless someone taught them to do that or told them such behavior was okay"- had experience in

dealing with sexual deviants.. "It is my theory that whoever victimized this child also victimized Ms. Arias and possibly other members of her family"

but did not have any proof of sexual abuse of the murderer when she was a child

talks about sexual abuse and the people who abuse

"..after being sexually abused, the person became a victim of the entire world and whenever something bad happened to that person it was not their fault, but instead of

the fault of another person or the world at large. This Ms. Arias to a tee." (pg. 57)

another thing learned is that victims tend to be "very manipulative people", blends into society- everyone thinks these victims are normal/trustworthy- also fits the

murderer "to a tee"

talks about murderer's sister, Angela - went to rehab as tennager "something was going on with the Arias girls...'where there is smoke there was fire' and there sure was

a lot of smoke signaling"

never found proof for his sexual abuse theory tho'
----------------------

My thoughts:

BBM sure sounds like the murderer Lawrence
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chapter 10

My Initial Thoughts on the Booking Photo

had to be concerned about the photo and the "story" it would tell to world/jury

"oddness" of photo "was overpowering"

never seen one like it- "looked so darn happy"- she "showed joy" and that stood out the most for him

thought she was "thrilled" to take it- idea that the world would see it and she would be "known worldwide for something" even if it was a bad something like murder

showed no shame- posed with pride (shows "severely mentally ill")

hoped the amount of mental illness would show in the pic (with the jury)
================================================== ============

Next:

Chapter 11
My Initial Review of the Evidence as it Related to Mr. Alexander

Chapter 12
My Initial review of the Evidence as it Related to the Relationship

Chapter 13
My Initial Review of Mr. Martinez

End of Section 2 (pg 89)
==============================

Thank you, Y/N.

Nurmi apparently has retracted his false statement in the book that a text exists proving the killer was invited that day. Thank you on that one, BK! All the most relevant of T's texts are or will be available to the public, great, because otherwise Nurmi escapes scrutiny on a bunch of wild-arsed distortions.

And...again....this man finds victims of abuse everywhere he looks EXCEPT for the only actual victim in this case....Travis Victor Alexander, psychologically and emotionally abused for over a year by a psychopath, slaughtered in his own home by the same psychopathic killer who premeditated his murder, slaughtered him 3 different ways and STILL her rage and hatred isn't satisfied.

 

[RickshawFan]

But a better strategy for Nurmi to follow in cases like this, imo, would be to point out the obvious injustice of applying the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit of the law, since it obviously wasn't written for cases like this.

The problem is, sex offender laws are written for cases like this (19-year-old high school students with underage girlfriends), and I believe the court is required to follow the letter of the law and not the spirit. By the way, legislators are starting to look at these laws for no other reason that they suddenly realize they themselves were once 19 with an underage girlfriend and only luck has kept them from a sex offender label.

But you're right, Nurmi might help himself if he talked more sensitively about what exactly his clients are accused of. And he could do himself a big favor by not arguing that they all behave the way they do because of child sex abuse.

Had Nurmi ever represented a woman before he got Jodi?