Bosma Murder Trial 03.07.16 - Day 20

[billandrew]

If you look at images of DM during his arrest it appears that the left side of his face is drooping? i've noticed this in other images as well.

Does he have a medical issue, Cranial nerve disorder ? Or is it a mannerism?

I have wondered about this, also. The contorted facial features seemed even more apparent when I saw DM in person in the courtroom. And he looks skinnier and more sickly now than in older photos, too. JMO.

I thought I heard something about a medical issue as well; it was cited as a reason for the trial not proceeding at certain times, if I recall correctly. I.e. because he had to see a doctor regularly.

 

[JuneBug67]

I suppose we're going to have to wait until it's the defense's turn to make their case(s) but so far, it sure doesn't sound like either of them is denying their clients were there, in that truck.

It's virtually impossible to imagine an account that didn't involve both of them being there that one wouldn't have to check out of the library.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

If they transferred him to the bed of the truck in Brantford..I wonder if there is any video then to back this up? Surveillance cameras that show something in the back of the truck somewhere from Brantford to Ayr?

Maybe from the blood soaked seats and carpeting? I know they haven't been smart but wondering if they were Smart enough to use the already blood soaked truck to haul seats to farm?
I know I have a few people saying it's impossible to drive a truck with no seats...but it really isn't considering it's an automatic. A bucket or anything would work and the farm isn't that far from the hanger.
We haven't heard of blood in any other vehicles yet. They'd have to use DM's pickup for this and no mention of that truck at all. Maybe that's being withheld from us for that reason? Point being, They got the seats there somehow to burn them, why get another truck bloody? Stripped and washed at hanger, clothes, seats and whatever else was burnt at the farm.

Like I've sad before, will wait an see what the hanger video shows.

 

[matou]

[h=1]Tim Bosma Murder Trial: The bloodletting inside Bosma’s truck | EXHIBIT #89[/h]
[video=youtube;VEV5uiIxqG8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEV5uiIxqG8&index=1&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA[/video]

 

[JuneBug67]

I hate the fact that I don't anticipate either of them will have the conscience or empathy to make known to the family and close friends just what exactly happened to Tim. I think it would haunt me not having a narrative so I could somehow try to 'be there' with him if he suffered. I remember reading the heartbreaking belief of a father whose daughter had been violently killed that if he ran through her terror and death over and over in his mind he could somehow impact the past and take the pain from her by bearing it as brutally as he could himself.

 

[Kamille]

Bessie has started an extensive overview of the trial up to and including Day 10 at this link with all of the witnesses to that point.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?299841-Bosma-Murder-Trial-Daily-Recap

 

[matou]

Wow at the last image of driver's side step rail. Also the interior dash and electrical outlet is full of visible blood.

 

[Kamille]

I might be confused .... Q: Are we expecting to see two videos at the hangar taken the night TB was abducted and cremated?

I am thinking there is an airport surveillance camera & and one from within the hangar that was stashed in CN's bedroom? I Understand the bookkeeper's husband, who does computer networking and surveillance work, is set to testify, as well as a forensic analyst.

I do believe we've been told about two separate video surveillance tapes at the hangar. One was from a neighbouring business and the other was from inside the MillardAir hangar. The picture below shows the hangar in May 2013. Not sure if the google car went by before or after the murder but you can see the roll up garage door on the side that appears to be used for access to the hangar. So if they came via the back of the hangar, I think that brown building behind the hangar appears to have a camera system on the exterior. You can see it better if you zoom in at the link.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4598...4!1sz5uloMNngQpxxLrIDsTU8A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Juballee]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 30s30 seconds ago
Now mist spatter to left of glovebox on dash. Small spatters right into glove box. Most of those spots are unaltered.

RSBM

http://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/blood/principles.html

Originally Posted by SnooperDuper
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 30s30 seconds ago
Now mist spatter to left of glovebox on dash. Small spatters right into glove box. Most of those spots are unaltered.






Gunshot spatter - includes both forward spatter from the exit wound and back spatter from the entrance wound. Gunshot spatter will vary depending on the caliber of the gun, where the victim is struck, whether the bullet exits the body, distance between the victim and the gun and location of the victim relative to walls, floors and objects. Typically, forward spatter is a fine mist and back spatter is larger and fewer drops.


http://www.forensicsciencesimplified...rinciples.html

RSBM

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 59s60 seconds ago
Dungey: asking if driver shoots Mr. Bosma, blood would come back toward driver? Jones says there would be some back spatter, yes.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 24s25 seconds ago
Jones says there was not back spatter into that area.

RSBM

Sorry to mash up these different posts, I hope the quotes came out properly. (Forgive the grisly visuals)

It sounds like the blood spatter that was not altered by clean up supports the idea of a fine mist from forward spatter (coming from the exit wound) being found to the left of the glove box. In my opinion, DM would have had to have climbed into the backseat to have shot TB and left exit wound spatter to the left of the glovebox.

I think Dungey may have really screwed MS by asking if there was back spatter in the driver's area. I think back spatter would have been found in the unaltered areas like to the left of the glovebox, if the shot came from the front seat.

My opinion only.

 

[Tealgrove]

I don't know why I am so shocked but the exhibits put forth today have (unfortunately) given me a visual that I will probably never forget. The testimony and pictures are very compelling. It is jarring. If I were a juror, today would be the day that it all sank in for me in a very visceral way.

Tim's life seeped away from him in the presence of these two animals all for a truck.

I'm at a loss for words and that doesn't happen much with me.

 

[earlygirl]

thanking Kamille for reply and link to google image of the hangar...

I hate the fact that I don't anticipate either of them will have the conscience or empathy to make known to the family and close friends just what exactly happened to Tim. I think it would haunt me not having a narrative so I could somehow try to 'be there' with him if he suffered. I remember reading the heartbreaking belief of a father whose daughter had been violently killed that if he ran through her terror and death over and over in his mind he could somehow impact the past and take the pain from her by bearing it as brutally as he could himself.

I would want to know too if I lost a loved one to murder. I think not knowing might be more brutal than the truths. Probably not the kind of forum for this thought - If I was a victim I think I would want loved ones to know what happened to me as well. So sad for all sides .......

 

[Gongshow]

RSBM

Originally Posted by SnooperDuper
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 30s30 seconds ago
Now mist spatter to left of glovebox on dash. Small spatters right into glove box. Most of those spots are unaltered.






Gunshot spatter - includes both forward spatter from the exit wound and back spatter from the entrance wound. Gunshot spatter will vary depending on the caliber of the gun, where the victim is struck, whether the bullet exits the body, distance between the victim and the gun and location of the victim relative to walls, floors and objects. Typically, forward spatter is a fine mist and back spatter is larger and fewer drops.


http://www.forensicsciencesimplified...rinciples.html

RSBM



RSBM

Sorry to mash up these different posts, I hope the quotes came out properly. (Forgive the grisly visuals)

It sounds like the blood spatter that was not altered by clean up supports the idea of a fine mist from forward spatter (coming from the exit wound) being found to the left of the glove box. In my opinion, DM would have had to have climbed into the backseat to have shot TB and left exit wound spatter to the left of the glovebox.

I think Dungey may have really screwed MS by asking if there was back spatter in the driver's area. I think back spatter would have been found in the unaltered areas like to the left of the glovebox, if the shot came from the front seat.

My opinion only.

As I was reading through I had the same thought. The fine mist on the glovebox points to the shooter being in the back. MOO.

 

[Tealgrove]

As I was reading through I had the same thought. The fine mist on the glovebox points to the shooter being in the back. MOO.

It's certainly got me thinking that way.

 

[Abitcountry]

I do believe we've been told about two separate video surveillance tapes at the hangar. One was from a neighbouring business and the other was from inside the MillardAir hangar. The picture below shows the hangar in May 2013. Not sure if the google car went by before or after the murder but you can see the roll up garage door on the side that appears to be used for access to the hangar. So if they came via the back of the hangar, I think that brown building behind the hangar appears to have a camera system on the exterior. You can see it better if you zoom in at the link.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4598...4!1sz5uloMNngQpxxLrIDsTU8A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The back of the hangar faces the red brick building...and yes the surveillance cameras on that building would pick up any vehicles coming up Jetliner Drive. That back wall of the hangar also contains another garage door, a man door and a few lower windows. The driveway into the hangar is just off this end of the hangar.
The two buildings are really quite close to each other with only the small two lane road between them.
This picture appears to have been taken by someone standing on the shoulder of Fountain Street.
From the corner of Jetliner Drive and Fountain, it is just over a minute to the right & back to the roundabout on Kossuth Road.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't know why I am so shocked but the exhibits put forth today have (unfortunately) given me a visual that I will probably never forget. The testimony and pictures are very compelling. It is jarring. If I were a juror, today would be the day that it all sank in for me in a very visceral way.

Tim's life seeped away from him in the presence of these two animals all for a truck.

I'm at a loss for words and that doesn't happen much with me.

... and the accused are sitting there, are listening impassively (I imagine), knowing the only correct answers to all questions that can't be resolved, maybe they even rejoice at it in their evil minds. :gaah:

 

[Ontario Mom]

Just a reminder for those who haven't heard yet - mute the audio on those slideshow videos or you'll be in the bathroom crying like me. Or, let it play. Your call.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Some thoughts after bawling like a baby for the umpteenth time...

While sitting, I extended my right arm outward toward the right... as if I were holding a gun in my right hand and aiming to shoot someone sitting to my right. It would be REALLY easy to angle the hand/gun even further right, so that the entry wound spatter would hit the to LEFT of the glove box, as we heard today with Jones' testimony.

In addition, it sure seems like "cleaning up" just made the evidence more damning. The introduction of a possible power washer just spread the plasma evidence all over that truck.

Lastly, someone mentioned above that there appears to be a void in the bed of the truck where plasma evidence was revealed by luminal. I agree 100%. I can only assume this is where Tim's tarp-wrapped body layed in the back of the truck, for a time.

 

[brightii]

RSBM

Originally Posted by SnooperDuper
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 30s30 seconds ago
Now mist spatter to left of glovebox on dash. Small spatters right into glove box. Most of those spots are unaltered.






Gunshot spatter - includes both forward spatter from the exit wound and back spatter from the entrance wound. Gunshot spatter will vary depending on the caliber of the gun, where the victim is struck, whether the bullet exits the body, distance between the victim and the gun and location of the victim relative to walls, floors and objects. Typically, forward spatter is a fine mist and back spatter is larger and fewer drops.


http://www.forensicsciencesimplified...rinciples.html

RSBM



RSBM

Sorry to mash up these different posts, I hope the quotes came out properly. (Forgive the grisly visuals)

It sounds like the blood spatter that was not altered by clean up supports the idea of a fine mist from forward spatter (coming from the exit wound) being found to the left of the glove box. In my opinion, DM would have had to have climbed into the backseat to have shot TB and left exit wound spatter to the left of the glovebox.

I think Dungey may have really screwed MS by asking if there was back spatter in the driver's area. I think back spatter would have been found in the unaltered areas like to the left of the glovebox, if the shot came from the front seat.

My opinion only.

I agree that Dungey's questioning seemed to be incriminating today to MS who is presumed by many to have been in the back seat of TB's truck, as per SB and WdB's eyewitness testimony. But I think we have no real idea yet of who was in the truck or where each person was after it left TB's driveway and was out of sight. DM was the original driver but he and MS could have switched places, (ie telling TB that MS would also be driving it if purchased so needed to test drive it too - or - pulling over where the Yukon was parked where either one or the other could have left the vehicle to drive the Yukon, as others here have suggested prior to TB being killed). These are just a couple of possibilities.

Also, what if the shooter was standing at the driver's side door on the outside with the door wide open and then shot TB? How would that affect the blood spatter?

I think MS has told his lawyer his version of what happened and that may account for Dungey's challenging today's evidence in the way he did.

All MOO.

 

[Kamille]

As I was reading through I had the same thought. The fine mist on the glovebox points to the shooter being in the back. MOO.

How would the shooter be in the back in this scenario? Did they shoot through the seat and the bullet exited through the torso? Would a small gun of that caliber have that kind of force?

I don't think any blood spatter in that truck can determine anything, just as the expert said. There was way too much clean up and movement/removal of items that were likely blood soaked. How would they have gotten the carpet out of the passenger floor area below the glovebox area without some blood spatter?

MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I've been struggling with the whole window thing. My instincts are telling me that it was broken after the fact, maybe when they were stripping the seats etc. from inside the vehicle. No way they would have been able to clean blood off of that window after it had been shot like that. MOO

LE says there had been a struggle inside the truck, therefore I think it's only the broken window (not by shot) what leads them to know about. What else?