Bosma Murder Trial 03.31.16 - Day 28

[SnooperDuper]

I think Sachak is helpfully reminding us that if DM just wanted to steal a truck, he could have easily done so with SS' help. He's reminding us that his sicko client wanted to kill as much as he wanted the truck.

It made me think, SS is the kind of guy that would help DM steal a truck? SS would actually get involved? What kind of guy is this guy?

 

[brightii]

Are we ever going to get the context of the text from DM to SS aboit the Bosma family?
Why is this such a sticking point?
SS said he knew about the truck beings TBs on May 9th in the evening, and then just randomly DM texts him saying about the family?

There has to be more to it...


Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

I agree! It's very frustrating to lack the context of some of the texts. I'm sure if texts were missing, then the witness SS could fill in the blanks with what DM or SS said prior (perhaps in person or on the phone) to clarify that text about DM not being able to stop thinking of the Bosmas.

I think the context is known, but for some reason, we and the jury aren't allowed to know . . . at least not yet, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[MsSherlock]

Mar 31 2016 3:48 PM
Sachak again attempting to illustrate Millard's wealth. "You told police he had more money than the average Joe ... he had more money than the average Shane Schlatman," Sachak says. "He's loaded, it what you told the police."

BBM
I found this comment by NS unnecessary.

IMO, NS is overplaying the whole discussion around all of DM's money. It's one thing to indicate that the person had money, another thing to attempt to rub it into the faces of witnesses. IMO, totally unnecessary and I hope Dungey's all over it.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Adrian Humphreys ‏@AD_Humphreys 29m29 minutes ago
‘The BBQ’ — Dellen Millard’s flippant name for incinerator allegedly used to burn #TimBosma's body: http://natpo.st/1UXuPU2 #Bosma #HamOnt

Schlatman walked to the witness stand clutching a folded grey hoodie. It’s the sweatshirt he dons once his testimony ends to cover his face and head as he dashes from the courthouse trying to avoid media cameras.

He did the same 10 days ago when he first testified.

Schlatman does not like scrutiny and refuses to shake a reporter’s hand during a court break.

 

[MsSherlock]

I found the line of questioning where I thought that DM was leading his lawyer to show DM's good natured personality.

From #33 at http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-23-16-Day-26/page3&highlight=Robert+Bochenek

"You considered him to be a rich acquaintance or rich friend, fair?" Sahack asks. Bochenek says yes.
by Adam Carter 11:12 AM

Bochenek says he had been at parties at Millard's place before moving in.
by Adam Carter 11:13 AM

Sachak reading out a text from Millard, in which he says he takes most of his garbage out in the Yukon.
by Adam Carter 11:16 AM

Sachak asks for a moment, now speaking with Millard.
by Adam Carter 11:16 AM

Sachak now asking about parties and BBQ's at the house. Bochenek says he had been going there since 2010.
by Adam Carter 11:17 AM

Sachak now done. Smich's lawyers have no questions.
by Adam Carter 11:17 AM

Well, I think once NS and RP are finished defending DM and then of course lodging the appeal, and then DM goes through the WM & LB trials and appeals, DM may very well have some very rich lawyers. Speaking of rich Lawyers- I wonder what ever happened to the love fest between DP and DM and if DP is glued to twitter like the rest of us??

 

[SnooperDuper]

IMO, NS is overplaying the whole discussion around all of DM's money. It's one thing to indicate that the person had money, another thing to attempt to rub it into the faces of witnesses. IMO, totally unnecessary and I hope Dungey's all over it.

But DM could make their dreams come true! For JV, that was building homes; for SS that was leasing a nice one for 99 years; for SH it was being a partner in an FBO...DM governed with carrots over sticks. He made a lot of promises to a lot of people. None of those scenarios above was looking very realistic, IMO. If people around DM were able to believe in those fantasies, they are letting the draw of their dreams overcome their better judgement. Daydreamers.

 

[brightii]

It made me think, SS is the kind of guy that would help DM steal a truck? SS would actually get involved? What kind of guy is this guy?

Perhaps all the talk about DM's wealth is a distraction and the real motive of the lawyers is to drop into the conversation suggestions that there are other people who had the opportunity and skills, and access to DM's properties and equipment, to throw suspicion on them without being overt about it?

I'm thinking of SS and JV who DM may well have his defense team trying to discredit them in a non-threatening way - (I think of how condescending both of DM's defense lawyers have been with these witnesses) - while hoping to conjure up reasonable doubt about DM's involvement and the possibility of theirs? By trying to show the witnesses as shady characters while highlighting DM's generous and altruistic ways (LOL), they may be hoping each witness will be seen by the jury in a bad light?

If that's their strategy - or part of it - I highly doubt it is working with the jury.

All MOO.

 

[Elisabeth]

IMO both DM's personal and MA's business financial records and bank statements should be allowed into evidence. I may be interpreting it wrong, but IMO, without proof of all the conjecture being tossed about by DM's defense team about DM's so-called wealth, I think it appears very suspicious.

Why not simply produce this information instead of asking those unqualified to comment about his wealth (SS or JV) or dismissing details from someone with direct knowledge of his bank accounts (cash flow) LW1? I believe it's because such information would not confirm the common perception of DM's associates that DM is "loaded".

All MOO.

I would like to see that information as well. However what is more relevant IMHO is DM's perception of his finances - especially around his understanding of cash flow vs net worth vs business/personal. Did he mix/confuse cash flow with net worth (and felt he couldn't afford the truck?)

I see four activities he is involved in which involve assets:

1) Cars: This doesn't seem to have any income or planned income does it? It is really a hobby? But the 15k a month expenses from SS seem to be primarily for this. He doesn't seem to pause and consider not spending the money does he? This is speculation - but - as others have pointed out, SS was employed under this category of activity and had plenty of work.

2) Airport/Aero business. He shut down the MRO so only the FBO was a possibility. Not sure how developed these plans were. He has the hangar asset but a lot of debt. Not enough coming in here to fund his car hobby. How does he pay off the debt for the MRO? How much has been spent of that loan? Do we know? Plus it may be under Millardair and more difficult to touch. I wonder why we haven't seen any evidence of discussions around the debt coming due and his reaction to it or understanding of it....or have we?

3) Pet cremation: enough said

4) House renovations/building/flipping. This seems to be the one area that might have had some income/ future income? It also has a lot of assets.

Is there any evidence that he recognized that the houses were his biggest potential for future income and not want to touch them? Plus did he know if they were required to pay off his MRO debt?

He mentions being let down by his father's accountants in a text to the real estate agent. I have forgotten what that was about. Someone here posted it. But regardless, shouldn't they be his accountants by now? Is there evidence he had his own financial advice? Were there bills coming due, pressures for Millardair debt repayment that might have given him the sense his net worth and finances were worse than they were?

Just speculating...

 

[SnooperDuper]

4) House renovations/building/flipping. This seems to be the one area that might have had some income/ future income? It also has a lot of assets.

Is there any evidence that he recognized that the houses were his biggest potential for future income and not want to touch them? Plus did he know if they were required to pay off his MRO debt?

<rsbm>

For a time he bought houses for renovating and flipping &#8212; a career path he says abandoned when he realized he was only breaking even.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...didnt_kill_tim_bosma_exclusive_interview.html

 

[deugirtni]

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
Smich and Meneses came to hangar. They worked on a Cadillac El Dorado for Dellen.

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
A Cadillac el dorado. There was a bazooka bass, a Toyota speaker system installed in it. #Bosma

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Those aren't the best, Sachak says--if Millard wanted new speakers he'd get the best. Schlatman agrees. #Bosma

But if Millard wanted a new truck, he'd be fine with a used 6 year old vehicle. The 'best' is no longer required?

What a seriously moronic defence so far.

1. Didn't hide anything, therefore nothing to hide. At least not until he knew his goose was cooked, which up until then, he had been too arrogant to even consider as a possibility.

2. He's a generous guy, always giving to others. So generous that he allowed his hardworking employee with many years of service, to pay HIM for the privilege of driving the company truck around on his jobsites 7 days/week under his direction, why, he'd even help to pay for the gas! Nevermind that he skimped out of paying the mandatory employer premiums for this employee, which would have protected his employee in the event he was injured on the job, or became unemployed for some reason, like say, if his employer suddenly got jailed for murder.

3. He's 'rich', which means he didn't *have* to steal a truck. He owns lots of properties. Do YOU own that many properties? nah-nah-na-nahh-nahh. Just ignore that friends reportedly knew ahead of time that he PLANNED on stealing a truck, and that he told people he was going to 'trade' his truck for a diesel, and told other people that he had been working for a year on getting a diesel, and of course, nevermind that he may have some kind of personality disorder which doesn't require reasoning for theft or murder.

4. He didn't buy the incinerator for nefarious reasons, he wanted to start a mobile pet incineration business, therefore he must not have used it for anything but that. Who cares if he spent over $22K getting the equipment prior to doing any market research or preparing a viable business plan, or that almost a year after receiving the incinerator there was still no pet incineration business. And it's beside the point if he told others that he was going INTO business with his uncle, and yet others that he needed the incinerator for his MRO operation. So?

5. He's compassionate, and well, murderers probably aren't all that compassionate, are they? So therefore, how could he be the murderer. He couldn't stop thinking about what the man's family was going through (but yet the missing man was not yet known at that time to have been already murdered, so why would he think about the man's family, as opposed to the man himself?) What truck?

 

[flipflop]

"That's why he wanted it portable -- to put it in a truck and just go vet to vet to vet."

Ridiculous! Most vets want the remains sent away, and not set up outside the business. I know our vet is located in a strip mall.

For a 75 pound animal, wasn't it several hours to cremate in the Eliminator? How much to tow, and cremate using this business model?

Exactly, can you imagine taking your pooch to the vet and up pulls DM and he starts loading some stiff dogs and cats into the BBQ.

 

[Just4TB]

But if Millard wanted a new truck, he'd be fine with a used 6 year old vehicle. The 'best' is no longer required?

What a seriously moronic defence so far.

1. Didn't hide anything, therefore nothing to hide. At least not until he knew his goose was cooked, which up until then, he had been too arrogant to even consider as a possibility.

2. He's a generous guy, always giving to others. So generous that he allowed his hardworking employee with many years of service, to pay HIM for the privilege of driving the company truck around on his jobsites 7 days/week under his direction, why, he'd even help to pay for the gas! Nevermind that he skimped out of paying the mandatory employer premiums for this employee, which would have protected his employee in the event he was injured on the job, or became unemployed for some reason, like say, if his employer suddenly got jailed for murder.

3. He's 'rich', which means he didn't *have* to steal a truck. He owns lots of properties. Do YOU own that many properties? nah-nah-na-nahh-nahh. Just ignore that friends reportedly knew ahead of time that he PLANNED on stealing a truck, and that he told people he was going to 'trade' his truck for a diesel, and told other people that he had been working for a year on getting a diesel, and of course, nevermind that he may have some kind of personality disorder which doesn't require reasoning for theft or murder.

4. He didn't buy the incinerator for nefarious reasons, he wanted to start a mobile pet incineration business, therefore he must not have used it for anything but that. Who cares if he spent over $22K getting the equipment prior to doing any market research or preparing a viable business plan, or that almost a year after receiving the incinerator there was still no pet incineration business. And it's beside the point if he told others that he was going INTO business with his uncle, and yet others that he needed the incinerator for his MRO operation. So?

5. He's compassionate, and well, murderers probably aren't all that compassionate, are they? So therefore, how could he be the murderer. He couldn't stop thinking about what the man's family was going through (but yet the missing man was not yet known at that time to have been already murdered, so why would he think about the man's family, as opposed to the man himself?) What truck?

Great summary!! :goodpost:

 

[Arnie M]

. He couldn't stop thinking about what the man's family was going through (but yet the missing man was not yet known at that time to have been already murdered, so why would he think about the man's family, as opposed to the man himself?) What truck?

You have the mind of a good detective.

I dont think anyone else spotted that.

 

[deugirtni]

IMO both DM's personal and MA's business financial records and bank statements should be allowed into evidence. I may be interpreting it wrong, but IMO, without proof of all the conjecture being tossed about by DM's defense team about DM's so-called wealth, I think it appears very suspicious.

Why not simply produce this information instead of asking those unqualified to comment about his wealth (SS or JV) or dismissing details from someone with direct knowledge of his bank accounts (cash flow) LW1? I believe it's because such information would not confirm the common perception of DM's associates that DM is "loaded".

All MOO.

It's possible that the defence may enter such evidence.. but also possible that they might provide only parts of the picture, the parts which may seem to reflect positively on his net worth, or the various companies' health. Sometimes financial statements are a little tricky to decipher, unless and until the entire statements of all of the intertwined companies is revealed. The Crown may figure to prove such a point isn't worth the confusion it may potentially bring about for the jurors.

Imo, Sachak's asking the friends and acquaintances, who presumably might know squat about business finances and reading financial statements, to speak about DM's financial status, while discounting the 'bookkeeper's' knowledge, is self-defeating. It's got to be tough for an arrogant lawyer to imagine that those regular, everyday citizens who have been chosen to be the only judges in this trial, may not be so simpleton as he thinks/hopes.

 

[brightii]

It's possible that the defence may enter such evidence.. but also possible that they might provide only parts of the picture, the parts which may seem to reflect positively on his net worth, or the various companies' health. Sometimes financial statements are a little tricky to decipher, unless and until the entire statements of all of the intertwined companies is revealed. The Crown may figure to prove such a point isn't worth the confusion it may potentially bring about for the jurors.

Imo, Sachak's asking the friends and acquaintances, who presumably might know squat about business finances and reading financial statements, to speak about DM's financial status, while discounting the 'bookkeeper's' knowledge, is self-defeating. It's got to be tough for an arrogant lawyer to imagine that those regular, everyday citizens who have been chosen to be the only judges in this trial, may not be so simpleton as he thinks/hopes.

BBM

deugirtni, you are on a roll tonight! I agree! :cheers:

All MOO.

 

[swedie]

It made me think, SS is the kind of guy that would help DM steal a truck? SS would actually get involved? What kind of guy is this guy?

I still wonder who showed up to steal MM's Harley and trailer. The video surveillance MM manage to get might not have been too helpful back when they were stolen, but investigators might have been able to identify the perps in the video once TB's case was cracked. MOO.

 

[Claroon]

This does not surprise me, coming from a twenty something like DM. The dirt bike dude called it the big red neck BBQ. I don't believe the wording has much weight, but is definitely disgusting in the context of this trial.

On behalf of the dirt biker, he may not have realized what it was. When he called it a "smoker" he very well might have thought it was a bbq for a pig roast. That's how I took it.

 

[deugirtni]

<rsbm>

For a time he bought houses for renovating and flipping &#8212; a career path he says abandoned when he realized he was only breaking even.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...didnt_kill_tim_bosma_exclusive_interview.html

I would imagine that if DM is 'billing' the property company for Villada and his crew to do interior and exterior work on his personal residences, and renovate for his own personal and unique uses, and to run trips to New Mexico to pick up toys for his hobbies.. he might still only break even.

Imagine if he had all of those properties and they had been purchased at a very low price years ago, some of them at least, and he rented them out at today's Toronto prices, and treated the whole thing like a *real* business, how well he could potentially be doing? I really just shake my head at the waste in all of this. Gone so quickly, the years of hard work and timely property purchases of his grandparents. Greed, entitlement, and an unwillingness to do honest work. Carl and 'Dell' are probably rolling in their graves to know that their wealth is now paying for legal defences in 3 separate murder trials.

 

[Claroon]

Exactly, police should have asked SS if he saw the business plan or knew where to find it.

actually Crown should ask if SS saw the business plan or if their financier saw it i.e. the bank who loans the money.

 

[Claroon]

I have wondered that same thing especially after listening to his defense team do a cross examination.
I wonder how cozy he is with his lawyers during court....I remember once hearing that a note was passed between DM and counsel and I think there was one other occasion when counsel returned to the table to discuss something with DM.
Could someone who has been to court speak to how they carry on during trial days?

The questioning by both lawyers at times has seemed very amateurish and at times almost pointless which leads me to wonder how much influence DM is exercising in his own defense. I know the lawyers are well educated and certainly I would expect more polished presentation from both if I was footing the bill.
On the other hand, DM has clearly painted a picture of himself as wanting to be the man in charge especially when he is paying...and as far as I can tell he has an uncanny nack of surrounding himself with the kind of people who appear to be impressed by the mere hint of money and or privilege and dismiss any thought as to character &/or morality....how did he come to chose his current lawyers?

I think, yes, a lawyer will make a point a client wants made. I also think the more nonsensical stuff that goes on, the more they try to pull the jury away from--to make them forget--all the damning evidence they've already heard. Confusion can be powerful.

If DM has delusions of grandeur or is a narcissist he would want his lawyer to brag about his importance.

With SS testimonies I wondered if he was the one DM wanted to change his testimony.

IMO DM knows nothing about running any business or balancing a bank book.