Bosma Murder Trial 04.07.16 - Day 32

[meterclicks]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 29m29 minutes ago
Doesn't remember what he and Michalski talked about.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 28m28 minutes ago
Millard staring at Smich right now. Smich taking notes.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 28m28 minutes ago
Police raid on Millard house. Told Michalski to leave. He didn't know what to do.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 27m27 minutes ago
Hagerman can't remember if they considered going to police with backpack and toolbox. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 26m26 minutes ago
Repeatedly tells police: "If I had any more information I'd tell you." But he was lying. Dungey done. Break for jury. #Bosma

 

[meterclicks]

Are you back now, meter? Right now the Adam Carter feed is dead still, but my attention keeps wandering and I may miss its resumption.

I am. I can take over if you want

 

[meterclicks]

Legal arguments are happening as per Susan Clairmont

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 20m20 minutes ago
No. Legal arguments right now. Then chance for re-exam by Crown.

 

[Inspector_North]

I feel bad for MH, I mean, he clearly feels bad about what happened. I think it was acceptable to ask him the questions TD did, minus the snivelling one's because he did lie and this is a serious situation. I think this was probably a wake-up call for him albeit a terrible one. To an extent, I understand where he was coming from. He probably did not know about the case, was sketched out about it and did not want DM to rat him out for all the things he'd done in the past. He was young and stupid and reckless. He was doing questionable things and hanging out with questionable people. This raises the question of how much blame should we place on him for making a terrible decision, even if he feels guilty and it's eating away at him? I also keep thinking how many lives were ruined by this senseless murder, TB's family (of course) but also DM and MS's families, girlfriends and friends. No one wants to have to testify at a murder trial, if I was close to the person who committed the crime I seriously do not know what I'd do. I'd have serious trust issues for a very long time. Knowing someone, loving them and having them do these kinds of things, it's absolutely unthinkable.

In that case it's time to raise the driving, drinking and voting age. With privilidge comes responsibility.
MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

I am. I can take over if you want

Thanks--I'm AFK at 4pm anyway, although IIRC they rarely go much later than that.

 

[ArianeEmory]

(Sounds like things may resume soon)

 

[meterclicks]

Court now back in session. No jury in yet.
by Adam Carter 3:33 PM

 

[meterclicks]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Court now back in session. No jury in yet. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Ok folks, I'm stepping out early today. Sorry. @mollyhayes can give you the re-exam. #Bosma

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm sure the word is used by TD in a calculating way and though it may come across as distasteful, he is there to unnerve and discredit anyone who appears to be testifying on DM's behalf, even if a Crown witness. TD would not want to come across as sympathetic or weak with this important witness, MH, IMO.

Personally, after almost three years I would expect to see more anger expressed toward DM by MH and not so many tears for DM or for himself and how the situation affects either of them. MH does come across to me as remorseful, but he still shows loyalty to DM in his testimony and I get the sense he knows more but is unwilling to share more on the stand. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get.

All MOO.

It is entirely possible I'm missing something, but I can't see how it appears MH is testifying on DM's behalf, as a Crown witness. I cannot think of a single thing he's said so far that paints EITHER DM or MS in a favorable light. Or, himself either, for that matter. What I do think, is that TD is zeroing in on MH's emotional state, exploiting that (and I suspect it's going to backfire because, treating people like crap while they're already clearly upset ranks right up there with kicking puppies for most people) and the fact that MH lied to police repeatedly when first questioned. Well duh, of course he lied. Lied to cover his butt, spare his family name from being drug through the Millard Sewer, etc. Of course it was wrong, but it's TD's job to cast doubt on the reliability of any Crown witness so that's what he's doing.

 

[Sphinx]

And some young, stupid kid that made some really horrible choices a few years ago is probably now quite understandably humiliated to have all his past transgressions exposed in court. Yes I know he's an adult now but the point is, HE isn't the one on trial. Nor did he have a thing to do with the horrifying crime that ripped Tim out of this world, aside from being dumb enough to think DM was actually his friend. When a grown man is bawling on the witness stand for his unwitting part after the fact, it seems rather cold hearted to mock him for it.

But that's just my opinion.

My opinion is that TD, who has a great deal of experience reading people, is right, and the kid is crying for himself, because he and his family are suffering so much humiliation. I hope they do charge him with something. I think he is still lying to some extent. I do not have much sympathy for these friends of DM's and MS's at all. In fact, I really have none. They made choices to enter into criminal behaviour and now they are just trying to do damage control and protect themselves. If they had not been caught, probably none of them ever would have talked. IMO

 

[andreww]

We've been told that any sort of deal can't be kept secret, but what constitutes a deal? Obviously someone charged with a crime can deal to have those charges or a possible sentence lessened, but is it considered a deal if somebody has not been charged with anything? Something tells me Hagerman is saying what the prosecution needs him to say because they will charge him with being an accessory after the fact (as they quite rightly should) if he doesn't. Would that be considered a deal? Shouldn't the jury be aware of that?

Honestly I'm not believing anything these guys say. Hagerman is full of crap when he says he and AM never discussed the contents of the toolbox. Kids talk, and when there is drama, thats all they do. I think they were all aware Millard was "hot" and I think they were all aware that it had something to do with TBs disappearance. I am convinced that by the 9th or 10th every single one of these guys new exactly what was going on. Probably even earlier than that. What we have here is an organized crime ring led by Millard. All of them are tied in by crimes they've already committed. Thats why Millard had no problems showing off TBs truck, because everybody who's see it was already in up to their eyeballs.

What the testimony of the past week also shows is that Millard called the shots on these missions, and that his soldiers actually knew very little about what was happening. Also, we've learned that these missions have al been stealth missions and non violent. I'm finding it more and more likely that Smich had absolutely now idea that things were going to go the way they did that night, and when they did he had no choice but to aid in the coverup.

 

[meterclicks]

A legal argument happening at the moment. Can't tell you what's going on until the jury is back in.
by Adam Carter 3:38 PM

 

[Orderly]

In that case it's time to raise the driving, drinking and voting age. With privilidge comes responsibility.
MOO

I think that's going a little too far, no? Just like there are irresponsible adults, there are responsible young people who do not engage in this kind of behaviour. I cannot relate to acting like he did, but I can relate to making bad decisions and doing questionable things when I was 16/17. Should those things forever be held against me? I think everyone should suffer the consequences of their actions but not everyone should suffer the same consequences. He did not kill TB.

IMO

 

[andreww]

My opinion is that TD, who has a great deal of experience reading people, is right, and the kid is crying for himself, because he and his family are suffering so much humiliation. I hope they do charge him with something. I think he is still lying to some extent. I do not have much sympathy for these friends of DM's and MS's at all. In fact, I really have none. They made choices to enter into criminal behaviour and now they are just trying to do damage control and protect themselves. If they had not been caught, probably none of them ever would have talked. IMO

It all comes down to disappointing your parents. Who knows how much he told his dad regarding his involvement in those missions? Maybe now that this is all coming out in court he's realizing that his parent are finally going to realize <modsnip>.

 

[Gibson67]

Just logging in but have now read all the posts - thank you! BIG THANKS to the tweet team for the tweets!

I'd like to know, did DM show any empathy towards his lifelong friend, MH, as his friend cried on the stand? Of course I already know the answer. DM is void of empathy, IMO.

All MOO.

Lisa Hepfner &#8207;@HefCHCHNews 5h5 hours ago
Crown: "Do you need a minute, Mr Hagerman?" "Sorry sir. I'll be OK." Hard to talk through tears. #TimBosma


5h5 hours ago
@HefCHCHNews how is Millard acting during this testimony? so heartbreaking for his childhood friend.

Lisa Hepfner &#8207;@HefCHCHNews 4h4 hours ago
he is sitting back in his chair staring at Hagerman with a cocked head.

 

[meterclicks]

Witness and jury now being recalled.
by Adam Carter 3:40 PM

The Crown is not re-examining. Hagerman is now excused.
by Adam Carter 3:42 PM

Goodman excuses the jury. That's all the testimony until Monday morning.
by Adam Carter 3:42 PM

 

[meterclicks]

Adam Carter &#8207;@AdamCarterCBC 3m3 minutes ago
Witness and jury now being recalled. #TimBosma #Bosma #HamOnt

Adam Carter &#8207;@AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
The Crown is not re-examining. Hagerman is now excused. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
We are back. The crown has no re-examination for Hagerman. He is done, and the jury is excused. #Bosma

Adam Carter &#8207;@AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Goodman excuses the jury. That's all the testimony until Monday morning. #TimBosma #Bosma

 

[newone]

wonder if there will be confirmation from LE that M was in fact told to scram after/during raid at Millard res?

could be useful in determining whether or not M was part of a framing situation too

 

[brightii]

I do have empathy for MH, but I also think that MS is on trial for his life and therefore it is completely reasonable to me that TD as his lawyer will pull out all stops in defending him. I'm sure TD does not want to offend the jury or the judge, but will take advantage of every opportunity to exploit the lies told by witnesses, IMO, TD will work hard to expose their lies and ulterior motivations (i.e. crying on the stand may elicit sympathy from jurors) and TD will try to counteract that possible impression. In essence, TD will do all that to help make his case for MS, and that includes being harsh in his cross examinations, especially with anyone who seems even remotely still loyal to DM, IMO.

MH may well still be protecting himself in light of the ongoing theft investigation, IMO, and TD was trying to get at that motive for some of MH's lies or omissions, i.e. inability to recall particular details, conversations with DM, AM, etc., IMO.

All MOO.

 

[andreww]

Another thing I find confusing about this whole toolbox thing is, why didn't someone just bury the fridge gun? Especially Millard that night at 4:00 AM? If he was under surveillance, whats the difference if they catch him giving the gun to a pal rather than burying it in the bush? Now he's got an ownership chain of four or five people and more than that number as witnesses against him? But if Hagerman knew it was a gun, why not bury it? If AM knew it was a gun, why not bury it? What sense does it make to get it back to Smich?