Bosma Murder Trial 04.07.16 - Day 32

[JPC]

I wonder what she knows? We will find out shortly. :crossfingers:

Yes, if he was that paranoid my guess is that there was a lot of pillow talk happening between those two.

 

[Boudica]

IMO... She's always been his enabler! Funny how she was there the night WM died too. Funny how she had access to both him in jail and CN outside of jail. Funny how LW2 got a $10,000 bonus from her! MOO

Initially, I was feeling sorry for DM's Mom, now, not so sure about her. Funny how she kept SS on the payroll and paid LW2 the $10,000. Maybe she even knew that DM was parking the trailer at her house.

 

[IBC]

Welcome IBC! :welcome6: I wish we knew the date that MH allegedly called CrimeStoppers too. TD mentioned in court that CS doesn't keep records, IIRC.

All MOO.

Thank you.

And since TD is MS lawyers, I doubt he wanted to pursue that particular detail too much.IMO

 

[brightii]

Initially, I was feeling sorry for DM's Mom, now, not so sure about her. Funny how she kept SS on the payroll and paid LW2 the $10,000. Maybe she even knew that DM was parking the trailer at her house.

I share your ambivalence about MB. IMO, it's fair to speculate about your concerns, which I also share, and I hope we will find out through the trial what, if any, was DM's mothers role in any of these events, but somehow I don't think we will. I may be completely wrong, but I just have a feeling about that.

I do wonder if LE can check witnesses bank accounts for any "timely" but unusual deposits, i.e. to help with purchase of a new home, post May 2013.

All MOO.

 

[newone]

He had many things that didn't fit the DM toy want list.

Cement polisher, or something like that
Maple trees
trailers
Riding Lawn mowers ..... two of them. Didn't get them, but was planning to.


If the wood-chipper was on a trailer, and was an easy grab, I wouldn't put much thought into it being used for evil things. The Eliminator seemed to be on DM's mind for some time. When the homemade one didn't work out, he needed to go big.

cement polisher?? yowser that became a bit scary --- if you were hiding something in cement floor (like hangar) and needed to buff the new cement to blend with the old

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

I doubt it. Very rarely can you rehabilitate people. If you don't have the moral compass to know right from wrong, you never will. The fact that every one of these people is walking out of court with their faces covered tells me that they have things to hide.

I might just hide my face too. As someone else mentioned, his face splashed on the 6:00pm news might prejudice potential job opportunities for him going forward, even though he's not a criminal. I don't think it has anything at all to do with lack of remorse or having something to hide. It has everything to do with the fact he has a life and livelihood to worry about going forward.

 

[brightii]

Thank you.

And since TD is MS lawyers, I doubt he wanted to pursue that particular detail too much.IMO

lol Perhaps you're right, but if he's making a case that MS was being set up by DM and his "entourage" then he may well have benefited from being able to confirm MH's assertion.

PS: You're very welcome!

All MOO.

 

[Boudica]

It has been a real emotional week of testimony. I do feel for MH and also think he is lucky that he's not in jail himself. Based on the evidence so far I feel DM is 100% guilty. I've always thought this was a thrill kill and still do. Now I think DM is even more dangerous than I had initially thought. He's a psychopath.

Not sure about MS's guilt. He was there, though I don't think he pulled the trigger. JMO

 

[newone]

Wow! A blast from the past! Wolfman Jack!

My mistake, it was Super Soul the DJ. Been a very long long time since I watched it.

was thinking of this movie recently!! -- wasn't there a cache of weapons found buried? (in the movie)

 

[Abitcountry]

Here is a start.

"Psychopathy is among the most difficult disorders to spot. The psychopath can appear normal, even charming. Underneath, they lack conscience and empathy, making them manipulative, volatile and often (but by no means always) criminal."

Why did he hide the truck at his mom's? Why not get rid of it?

MOO

I wonder at what point DM will be sent for a full psychiatric assessment?

 

[hopingforjustice]

I feel for this young man as well- regardless if he lied on numerous occasions to LE before he came clean. IMO, it takes a incredible amount of moral fortitude to say over and over "I lied" "I lied" on the stand, in front of a Judge, Jury, the victims family and gallery of spectators. DM had it all figured out. He had friends who trusted him like friends do - AM, MH & pals. MH and him went back a long time and with MH's grandmother being so involved with the Millard family, I would imagine MH viewed DM as family. DM then desensitized all of his friends to his petty criminal activities. He called the acts a very familiar name "missions", got walkie talkies, kind of put bids out for helpers. He turned it into a game. The crimes got bigger, they all got in deeper and voila! DM's got a pretty loyal following.

And what does DM do? He saddles them to dispose of the illegal items that could incriminate him. It was payback time- only they just didn't know it. He betrays the friendship without one ounce of guilt and exposes himself as the person he really is. A narcissistic psychopath. He was never their friend. He used them.

The day DM was charged with murder was the day DM's friends realized that they were never DM's friend. IMO, it would be very confusing for a young 20 something guy. Just like LB and his Dad were never his friends. MH was pulled into this whole mess by DM's self serving needs. DM had 100 places where he could have put the tool box- why didn't he take it to Shaner or drop it off in his mothers garage? Why did the gun even have to go in the toolbox? My theory is this. MH and AM knew the toolbox. DM used it to transport narcotics and other drugs. DM knew that when he dropped it off to MH, MH would assume it was full of drugs. It was locked. That's the reason why DM put the gun in that tool box: calculating, manipulating, devious. He needed to get all of this stuff thru as many of his friends hands as possible. None of them would be left unscathed and none would dare snitch him out.

So as LE came calling on each of his friends, they lied to cover for themselves and DM. And they continued to lie until they broke under the pressure. MH spoke to his father- retained a lawyer and told LE the truth. And even after that, DM was still trying to get at his friends via CN. IMO, they just couldn't wrap their head around DM ever being responsible for TB's murder- they were looking for every possible explanation. Hopefully, with time, MH can come to terms with everything. I applaud his honesty, regardless if it took a while to come out. He did the right thing and regardless what anyone says, I think it takes a lot of courage and moral fortitude for anyone to sit there in front of DM and tell the truth. SS and the 2 LW's weren't able to do it, yet somehow, with love and respect for their families, these young guys are doing their best to close this chapter in their life. MOO

I was trying to figure out how to say what I felt about this testimony today and how my heart ached for them and you just said it perfectly! Very well said!

 

[Errrr]

molly hayes on Twitter: "Hagerman says he called CrimeStoppers. Told them the other suspect might've been Mark Smich. Told them about the farm. #Bosma"
[video=twitter;718137873149534208]https://twitter.com/mollyhayes/status/718137873149534208[/video]

I wish we knew what the date was when MH called Crime Stoppers. Was MS already on LE radar by then ? Do we know how LE became aware of his involvement?

I'm sorry if I linked anything wrong, it's my first post.

Thank you you to everyone who shares the tweets and blogs. I don't think I could read and post that fast.

I would like to know how MH knew MS was involved in that. He had nothing to do with any of that escapade. What else did DM tell him that night? He seemed pretty adamant that MS was not to get hold of that toolbox? What did MH tell LE about the farm and how would he have known anything about it? DM had already told LE he lived there. It sounds like DM gave him more instructions than hold onto the toolbox.

 

[Typhoo1961]

No shame in enjoying the smell of fresh cut bud. Some hate it, some love it, God made it... so, it is what it is. (and no, I'm not a pot smoker but the scent of fresh, not the smoke, smells pretty amazing to me).

I'm the same way. I don't smoke but I like the smell of fresh weed when it's not being smoked. The smoke smell makes me want to hurl.

 

[puppyraiser]

How have SS, MH, 'Arthur' and AM NOT been charged with AATF? I know the police have said in regards to DM's girlfriend's charges that they don't usually arrest co-operating witnesses but come on... these people spoke with police several times and IMO still haven't been completely truthful with what they know. MH may have come the closest today, but there's still something about his testimony that leads me to believe there's more. Unless, all the legal arguments have kept that info out of the media/pubic.

So many lives and relationships have been affected by this case.

 

[Abitcountry]

But how does putting the damning evidence in MS's hands for him to easily dispose of effectively frame him?

Do you actually believe that Millard fully intended that the toolbox and gun should be ultimately delivered to Smich?

We have nothing to say what the conversation between Millard and Hagerman was when the toolbox was delivered ...but I don't think it involved instructions to get the toolbox back to Smich. If Millard wanted it back in Smich's possession, then why not deliver it to Smich?

It seems to me that it was strictly the conversation between Hagerman and Michalski that resulted in toolbox and backpack being dumped on Smich. Millard was in jail by this time....they wanted to put distance between his issues and themselves and just wanted to ditch everything they had been given. They did not even want to get to close to Smich either and so it all got dumped in the stair well.

I think Millard's intention was to kept the gun as close to him but not on him for obvious reasons..... and if he could have controlled the direction of things once the heat was on, then he would have pulled it all out to frame Smich in a heart beat

 

[brightii]

Something that's been gnawing at me all afternoon is the testimony from MH where he describes having met up with DM in front of DM's house at 4 am. When MH asks him what's wrong, DM replies that MH is better off not knowing (paraphrasing this conversation). If true, MH must have been suspicious that the usual-drugs-in-the-toolbox was not the source of the suddenly urgent problem, IMO. I also have a hard time believing that MH would not question DM more insistently before simply accepting the toolbox and agreeing to hold on to it or to get rid of it. If he suspected that it was only drugs in the toolbox why did he and AM panic at the thought of having it near them? It just isn't adding up to me.

My concern is how that response to MH by DM will play to the jury. I hope they don't interpret it as DM sincerely wanting to protect MH, if it was said at all. IMO, DM was only interested in protecting himself and his own interests.

IMO, the fact that DM would involve MH and expect MH to do as DM commanded, no questions asked, or if asked, none answered, was putting MH at risk of getting caught with a gun used in a crime. This is not how true friends behave. A friend who has any degree of conscience would not lay that kind of burden on an innocent friend. DM is IMO ever the opportunist and he's used to apparently having his entourage be his loyal "yes" people. It's really too bad that none in his crowd questioned his intentions or considered how his selfishness affected them and others. At least not until after TB was murdered, IMO.

Then there is another possibility I wonder about, and it's that when MH asked what the problem was, DM told him the truth (or a version of it), just as he told AM, and then the collusion and cover up and possible framing of MS began.... I know this may seem like wild speculation to some, but please don't jump on me for wondering out loud about such a possibility. I simply have doubts about what MH and AM knew at the time, and what they are willing to admit to now.

All MOO.

 

[musicaljoke]

Yes, if he was that paranoid my guess is that there was a lot of pillow talk happening between those two.

My guess is that we won't hear any of the pillow talk. If there isn't evidence of the conversation in a text, then it didn't happen. And even then, half the texts likely will be inadmissable.

I hope I'm wrong.

Moo.

 

[Boudica]

Do you actually believe that Millard fully intended that the toolbox and gun should be ultimately delivered to Smich?

We have nothing to say what the conversation between Millard and Hagerman was when the toolbox was delivered ...but I don't think it involved instructions to get the toolbox back to Smich. If Millard wanted it back in Smich's possession, then why not deliver it to Smich?

It seems to me that it was strictly the conversation between Hagerman and Michalski that resulted in toolbox and backpack being dumped on Smich. Millard was in jail by this time....they wanted to put distance between his issues and themselves and just wanted to ditch everything they had been given. They did not even want to get to close to Smich either and so it all got dumped in the stair well.

I think Millard's intention was to kept the gun as close to him but not on him for obvious reasons..... and if he could have controlled the direction of things once the heat was on, then he would have pulled it all out to frame Smich in a heart beat

I think you're on to something there. Millard may have wanted the gun back at a later date and felt it was safe with MH.

So, if AM and MH wanted to just ditch the tool box and backpack why the drive to Oakville to give it to Smich. Why wouldn't they just throw them in a dumpster or the lake?

 

[newone]

Do you actually believe that Millard fully intended that the toolbox and gun should be ultimately delivered to Smich?

We have nothing to say what the conversation between Millard and Hagerman was when the toolbox was delivered ...but I don't think it involved instructions to get the toolbox back to Smich. If Millard wanted it back in Smich's possession, then why not deliver it to Smich?

It seems to me that it was strictly the conversation between Hagerman and Michalski that resulted in toolbox and backpack being dumped on Smich. Millard was in jail by this time....they wanted to put distance between his issues and themselves and just wanted to ditch everything they had been given. They did not even want to get to close to Smich either and so it all got dumped in the stair well.

I think Millard's intention was to kept the gun as close to him but not on him for obvious reasons..... and if he could have controlled the direction of things once the heat was on, then he would have pulled it all out to frame Smich in a heart beat

bbm: DM would have divulged on a need to know basis only and was pulling favour from MH ((blind familly loyalty which was heavily exploited))

I agree with your synopsis

 

[LibTech]

The mention of the backpack jogged my memory. I thought we had heard something about it before in the very early days of testimony. I found a couple of tweets in the threads for day 1 and 2.

"Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Cross done. Pillay asked if she saw Smich with backpack. She says no. Few other quick questions. Smich lawyer has no questions for Sharlene."

"Dungey suggesting that DeBoer didn't note a pack back on shorter man meant he didn't have one. WD disagrees. "Means I didn't notice" "

"Both Dungey and Pillay had focused on whether either person who showed up had been carrying a bag.
by Adam Carter 1:43 PM"

Perhaps the backpack AM was holding on to and left in the stairwell was MS's?