Bosma Murder Trial 04.13.16 - Day 34

[Wysteria]

It appears the the witnesses who were in DM's inner circle, have the least forthright testimony. That isn't unsurprising given they were a den of thieves.
In the case of AM today, it is my opinion that his testimony was not totally false but rather skinny on truth. Yet hidden among the dirt were nuggets of usefulness.


Some of the nuggets from today...

- DM told AM he and MS planned to steal a truck
- DM was engaging in theft missions with his cohorts / minions (corroborates MH testimony)
- MS was a unique cohort, less of a minion, who did not fit well with the others
- MS and DM together were the innermost circle during thefts
- Theft missions were partially for the thrill
- DM "needed" the diesel truck (corroborates earlier evidence on diesel vs gas, LW2 texts )
- TB was targetted - "nice guy"
- DM supplied drugs to the minions and MS
- MS wanted the "thing" (gun), ruling out the DM setting up MS angle of defense
- DM had a negative cash flow issue and was aware of the issue (corroborates earlier testimony)


my opinion only

RBBM
Nicely said.

Additionally, your post is a great summary of the salient points regarding the testimony yesterday.

Thank you.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Yes .... and they were probably from Grandfather Carl's car collection .... I wonder why they even mention the "red caddy" at the trial .... seems completely irrelevant to me .

.

Don't know why the Red Caddie was brought up either. I can't remember was it only brought up with AM? There are pics of AM with this Caddie on FB with comments. When asked if it was his. He said no, it's Dell's.

 

[Londoneye]

If TD likes to use "Killer games" instead of video games I wonder what description he'd give for his clients youtube video???

 

[Just4TB]

I may be wrong but I believe MS is 2-3 years younger than DM

Correct. MS is 2 years younger than DM

Birth dates... DM = 1985-08-30 MS = 1987-08-13

Pic source - derived from trial exhibits...

 

[CJPRINCESS]

From my past experience, they'd be in the hall, it is a big square room with bench seats. They can't hear what's going on in the courtroom from there. They may also put some witnesses in the interview room to be shielded from the media.

Question for anyone who has attended the trial. Where do the witnesses hang out before they take the stand and during breaks? Is there a witness room, or are they just amongst everyone else?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Ugh....why does other quoted posts keep appearing when I do a new post?

 

[deugirtni]

Was AM not home during the police raid? Why has that info been MIA?

IIRC after the drop, AM testified that he went to stay at his dad's place.

According to testimony given by MH, AM told him the house (Maplegate) had been raided the morning of May 11th, however AM has testified that he was at work, at Campbell's, on May 11th:

• 10:27 AM

Hagerman says he did end up finding them and left for the park, around 2:28 p.m.

• 10:27 AM

Fraser now asking about the meeting at the park.

• 10:28 AM

"He was in shock, and that was when I found out he was living at Dellen's house and that cops had shown up at the house and raided the house in the morning. That's when I first heard about Dellen's arrest," Hagerman says.

Note this statement is contrary to MH's other statement on the stand when he said :

• 10:19 AM

"I worked late that Friday night on May 10, on May 11, I woke up to a bunch of missed messages from Andrew Michalski, he told me Dellen had been arrested and that he wanted to meet up, that Dellen had given him something and that he knew Dellen had given me something as well."

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Quote Originally Posted by Massasauga Rattler View Post
Sounds like DM had not friends his own age, probably cause people his own age were less likely to be fooled and manipulated by his BS. Plus, people his own age like had jobs.

People his own age were likely putting in 8 hour days working for a living and busy with all that comes with adulthood.....home, family, career, friends, mortgages etc.

Even DM's girlfriend is/was much younger, so he was spared with wishes like "marry me", "be the father of my children" and so on.

 

[studyer]

I've lately been puzzling over the fact that in both test drives they didn't arrive in a car. I thought maybe there would be evidence that someone did drop them off. But we haven't heard any. So:
How did they actually get there? And how did they get home from the first test drive? In both cases did they park their vehicle far enough away and then walk?

 

[amis_]

Can someone please remind me if we figured out that the eliminator would have been able to operate on just the generator or if it needed to be plugged in? I can't remember what was determined and just had a thought. TIA

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[chaines]

I believe they arrested him and then questioned him? Doesn't sound like he was very forthcoming until that point.

MOO

and here I was somewhat expecting his testimony to be a bit more truthful because I was under the impression he willingly went in and gave his story right off the bat. Now his dancing around facts makes more sense. I hope karma bites every one of these lowlifes in the a**.

 

[billandrew]

Question for anyone who has attended the trial. Where do the witnesses hang out before they take the stand and during breaks? Is there a witness room, or are they just amongst everyone else?

The more controversial witnesses might avoid drawing attention to themselves by waiting in a room, but the majority simply wait in the hallway with everyone else. Quick story:

The first time I went to the courthouse, my girlfriend and I ate our lunch in the cafeteria. When we first got there the only other person around was SB's father, eating a bowl of soup by himself. More people slowly arrived: Dungey and Trehearne, a couple of police officers, Pillay and Sachak, a bunch of random people. I vividly remember Sachak standing over SB's dad and asking with a big smile, "How's the soup today?"

Eventually SB arrived and I saw her joking and laughing with her dad and a couple other members of her family. Everybody seemed to be in good spirits that day. Then my girlfriend overheard a lady sitting behind me ask her male friend, "Is that SB over there?" The man didn't know, so my girlfriend chimed in to confirm that yes, it was SB. The lady, seemingly annoyed that my girlfriend was eavesdropping, gave her a dismissive look and started snickering with her friend, so we just paid them no mind.

Later, back in the courtroom, the Crown called DM's bookkeeper, Lisa Williams, up to the stand. My girlfriend immediately recognized her as the lady from the cafeteria. We figured the man with her was Dubien because he never entered the courtroom, and I think he was supposed to be the next witness after LW. However, it was so apparent that he and his wife had no intention of cooperating on the stand that I believe the Crown just dropped him from the list.

 

[chaines]

My personal theory (evolving as always) is that someone else who I find quite suspicious helped DM at the hangar after TB was murdered.

I am not certain that MS was on the test drive, although that seems most likely and probable, given that he too apparently was on previous missions with DM and crew, IMO. It is also plausible that since MS was "sick" after the IT test drive, that MS did not agree to accompany DM to TB's test drive and therefore a replacement for MS may have been put in his place, IMO. If MS, or any other person, was there at TB's test drive, I am not yet convinced that either person knew anything other than a plan to steal the truck, IMO. I don't yet see evidence that convinces me MS was aware of a plan to murder TB or that he actually committed the murder of TB, IMO.

All MOO.

I believe in AM testimony he said the MS said that he just had a hangover. That would have been gone the next day so he would have been able to go with DM to Ancaster. That being said, I'm not buying that being hungover stopped him from the theft of IT truck. I think it didn't go through because these tough guys (sarcasm) were wetting their pants when IT mentioned being Israeli army and that he did things they wouldn't want to know about.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Ugh....why does other quoted posts keep appearing when I do a new post?

Memory of the new software seems too perfect ...

 

[Inspector_North]

I've lately been puzzling over the fact that in both test drives they didn't arrive in a car. I thought maybe there would be evidence that someone did drop them off. But we haven't heard any. So:
How did they actually get there? And how did they get home from the first test drive? In both cases did they park their vehicle far enough away and then walk?

Interesting, and sparks another question. If we assume that they were planning on stealing IT's truck, and it didn't go as planned because MS was hungover. We know that they used a very similar MO, walked up to the business, etc. Why was there no video evidence of that test drive? It would have been interesting to know how close they hid the Yukon on that 'mission'. I can see hiding the truck on TB's test drive (evening and rural), but during the day, and in a business section?

Anyone familiar with the location of IT's business? Also, I thought IT said he was in his apartment, and that they were an hour late for the test drive.

I would also assume the police had the exact route they traveled from IT.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

I REALLY HOPE, that I don't EVER get implicated on a murder.....based on what I WEAR! I live in a hoodie, black or grey! Good thing I wasn't in that area on May 6th!!

Just don't wear a hoodie on that day!!!!

 

[Inspector_North]

Can someone please remind me if we figured out that the eliminator would have been able to operate on just the generator or if it needed to be plugged in? I can't remember what was determined and just had a thought. TIA

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

I believe we heard from SS that the 10,000 watt generator could power the Eliminator fans. I would have thought much less, but I have no doubt the 10,000 watt would.

FYI: When powering up anything with an electrical motor, generally there is a high current demand on start up, it's the nature of motors and back EMF. At least two main fans, one for the main burner, and one for the after burner. If the fans could be started individually, you could start one, get it up to speed, and start the other. This would reduce the initial surge from two starting at the same time.

Short answer: Yes the Eliminator that DM owned was designed to be mobile, and could run from a mobile power generator.

 

[Lorelei1]

All IMO, I'd suspect the gun was pulled with one of them saying, "Give me your phone" which was then thrown out the window, i.e. they didn't want him calling anyone once they kicked him to the curb. Perhaps when they grabbed the phone TB tried to wrestle the gun down and was shot. Only one scenario. But the phone was 1 min. back from Bobcat stop and on the passenger side.

That's an interesting scenario Claroon but, as you say, the phone was one minute back from the Bobcat stop. Also, if TB threw the phone out the window it would have to have been rolled down and wasn't it back up when/if it was shattered by a bullet?

I've wondered, if it's true that the murder didn't happen until the Bobcat area maybe DM had led TB to believe that he was taking him to his mechanic to check the truck over and/or to get the money. But then how did MS get in the Yukon that was following the truck when a friend was supposed to be waiting in it at TH. Just MOO.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

IMO, we have to be extremely careful not to demonize those who were not actually involved in this crime. Yes- no doubt that the whole gang were having a blast getting stoned, having parties and running around with walkie talkies playing lookout for DM's thieving missions. BUT- this trial is about a murder and the accused DM & MS, along with CN sitting in the wings with her own criminal charges. I have absolutely no doubt that the "missions" belonged to DM because the stuff that got stolen ended up in DM's sole and absolute possession.

IMO, doing recreational drugs and playing lookout while your buddy steals things does not mean you're cool with a murder. The talk around stealing a truck was because DM "needed" a truck. Did AM ever think that they were planning on killing the owner? IMO, he wouldn't even think that that was possible and I'm thinking if DM & MS told him "hey, we're going to steal a truck and kill the owner", AM would have either gone to his parents or LE.

Yep- these young men were doing criminal things that if caught, could have resulted in possession or theft charges. What they were willing to do wasn't right- however, they weren't into the full meal deal like DM and MS were. IMO, DM & MS knew what they wanted- they didn't just want to steal a truck, rather, they wanted or "needed" to kill the owner and share the excitement of a total crime. These are the only two guys that should be demonized. The friends confessing to their crimes and lifestyles on the stand are 1000000 x's better than the 2 guys sitting there lying and denying everything. Their participation in drugs and thieving with DM and MS did not enable or create an excuse for DM & MS murdering and incinerating TB. MOO

Great post! The fact that these guys are being pulled further and further into the discussion just shows that the Defense's approach is having some affect. They are hoping the jury is being sucked in as much as some of us on WS. To me it's all noise. I'm hoping MM and CN's testimony is a lot cleaner than these guy's have been and then the Crown can put a nice bow on this during their closing....clear out the clutter. MOO

 

[billandrew]

I believe in AM testimony he said the MS said that he just had a hangover. That would have been gone the next day so he would have been able to go with DM to Ancaster. That being said, I'm not buying that being hungover stopped him from the theft of IT truck. I think it didn't go through because these tough guys (sarcasm) were wetting their pants when IT mentioned being Israeli army and that he did things they wouldn't want to know about.

From Adam Carter's tweets:

• Smich said he was "sick" Michalski says. "That was their excuse for not stealing the truck."
• Sorry to clarify, Millard said that Smich was sick, while Smich was in the room.
• "Smich looked visibly sick," Michalski says.

The fact that it was DM who said MS was sick could be important. For example, it could indicate that DM was annoyed with MS for copping out on whatever their plan was that day. If true, this could mean that DM expected MS to initiate some kind of action in the heist, such as restraining Igor from behind or pulling a gun on him while DM was driving. Just speculating...