Bosma Murder Trial 04.21.16 - Day 38

[SnooperDuper]

IMO these two reporters are both fantastic. I am in awe of the work they have done on this case. But when you tweet live it is inevitable there will be the occasional mistake. Meneses was arrested. Here are my notes:

Thank you for herding the cats.

I can't find that tweet from SC. Was it from today? Perhaps she has retracted it? :waitasec:

It was from April 20.

 

[Claroon]

There was no arrest announcement until the press conference on May 11th. The article that you have posted was updated on the 11th at 11:59am with the arrest information. The name of the suspect was released at the 1pm press conference that the article refers to.

Therefore I do not believe that MM saw something on the news on the Friday evening that stated anyone had been arrested, and definitely not the name of the suspect.

So I personally think she is lying about this. She likely found out from CN calling MS but for whatever reason, did not want to tell LE that at the time of her statement.

MOO

ETA: If RP is sharp, he will likely point this out. Just to show deception in her statement.

They updated it and didn't change the heading? or are you saying this was written on the 10th and not put on internet until 11th?

 

[Claroon]

I hope the Bosma family feel a sense of closure once the Devil Dellen the Melon is led away from society!!!!

Dellen the Melon Felon had a farm...e i e I owe.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7h7 hours ago

"Dellen had a farm and he said it was for his animals." She said, "But you don't have any animals." "And it got left at that."

 

[billandrew]

From the tweets today (Molly Hayes):

• Now going to May 10. That eve, she and Smich were both at her sister's place. She found out about Millard's arrest while watching the news.
• When she saw the news story, she did know the name #Bosma. "I freaked out. Why is your friend on the news and why is he arrested for that."
• Smich, she says, was like "I don't know I wasn't really around him. He did everything, he did everything."
• She says Smich was also like "oh ****" and grabbed her phone and started calling people.
• She says he told her "there were drugs in Dellen's house and he (Mark) wanted to get them out."

Is the consensus that this part of Meneses's testimony is 1) a lie, or 2) a misrecollection? I was hoping somebody here would recall hearing about Millard's arrest on the Friday night (May 10), but most people seem pretty convinced that there was absolutely no announcement until the next day. I personally cannot remember, nor can I find a good source about the news coming out on the 10th.

What bothers me about this is that Meneses's testimony fits so well into the timeline, and something alerted Smich to start calling Michalski about getting the drugs out of Maple Gate. And in all of the testimony we heard, there was no mention of Noudga or anyone else reaching out to Smich to tell him that Millard was arrested. If there was no news until Saturday, I'd like to understand how Smich found out, and why Meneses is lying/misremembering.

 

[palisadesk]

Thank you for herding the cats.

.

We can all use an off-the-main-topic laugh at this point. On the topic of herding cats, if you've never seen this video (or even if you have), it cracks me up every time. For the record I like cats (and dogs, snakes, iguanas, snapping turtles, tortoises, horses, goats....)

Enjoy:

[video=youtube;Pk7yqlTMvp8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8[/video]

 

[Inspector_North]

Is the consensus that this part of Meneses's testimony is 1) a lie, or 2) a misrecollection? I was hoping somebody here would recall hearing about Millard's arrest on the Friday night (May 10), but most people seem pretty convinced that there was absolutely no announcement until the next day. I personally cannot remember, nor can I find a good source about the news coming out on the 10th.

What bothers me about this is that Meneses's testimony fits so well into the timeline, and something alerted Smich to start calling Michalski about getting the drugs out of Maple Gate. And in all of the testimony we heard, there was no mention of Noudga or anyone else reaching out to Smich to tell him that Millard was arrested. If there was no news until Saturday, I'd like to understand how Smich found out, and why Meneses is lying/misremembering.

Still looking, but all I can find is that LE released additional information on the 10th

"May 10, 2013: Police announce that they have located Bosma’s cellphone while searching an industrial area in Brantford, and release updated descriptions of the two suspects. Kijiji issues a statement regarding Tim Bosma’s disappearance."

 

[pecosmom]

The announcement of DM's arrest was definitely on the Saturday afternoon via the press conference. I recall it clearly as I was watching tv and I don't work Saturdays. Went immediately to the computer and googled his name. I'd been following the case closely and there was no mention on Friday (10th) of an arrest.

 

[palisadesk]

What bothers me about this is that Meneses's testimony fits so well into the timeline, and something alerted Smich to start calling Michalski about getting the drugs out of Maple Gate. And in all of the testimony we heard, there was no mention of Noudga or anyone else reaching out to Smich to tell him that Millard was arrested. If there was no news until Saturday, I'd like to understand how Smich found out, and why Meneses is lying/misremembering.

I certainly am no useful source, as I never watch TV so wouldn't have seen it anyway. But, I've noticed a pattern: in other high profile events (some criminal, some not), before the major network stories or police press conferences, there are "breaking news" headline tidbits broadcast. I see them on the telly at the gym, and hear them on the radio from time to time as well. These give the bare bones to entice the listener or viewer to tune in to the future broadcast or whatever for the full story.

Since DM was arrested in the evening, there would only be limited information available about his arrest, but I find it quite believable that it went out as a news bulletin late that night on one or another channel. MM and MS were probably night owls like most young people (who don't have to get up for work at 4 a.m.) and so I don't see why it couldn't be true that MM saw one of those"news flash" items about DM's arrest and that set the panic reaction of MS into gear.

Lots of times at least some of the facts get out before the police press conference. And some fictions, too!

 

[Ontario Mom]

I don't know if MM is lying or simply mis-remembering. However, would it be in her statement that she gave just 2 weeks after the fact? I can understand mis-remembering after 3 years, but at just 2 weeks out she'd know exactly what day it was. Yet, I can't reconcile her statement with what was in the MSM at the time. Nor can I discount it since the phone records actually do reconcile with what she's said.

I do have a hunch though, that the cross by the defense is going to be all over this if in fact the media did NOT report of his arrest until the Saturday. For no other reason than to present her to the jury as an unreliable witness.

moo

 

[Inspector_North]

The announcement of DM's arrest was definitely on the Saturday afternoon via the press conference. I recall it clearly as I was watching tv and I don't work Saturdays. Went immediately to the computer and googled his name. I'd been following the case closely and there was no mention on Friday (10th) of an arrest.

From this post, some folks knew about an arrest as early as around 10:00 am Saturday. But by the post details had not been released.

 

[paris_paris]

May 10th.
6:22 pm Millard calls Smich.
7:19 Millard leaves Speers Rd. He'd been there for about 50 minutes. MS and MM are there.
7:35 Millard is pulled over and arrested.
8:04 - 9:12 Noudga sends 3 messages to Millard. Whishbone sends 1 text.
MS and MM are still at Speers Rd. and see the arrest on the news.
9:20 MS starts calling AM for the drugs

That is an insanely convenient fit. It wasn't even 2 hours before MS knew DM was arrested. I know all the phone calls aren't listed. What's missing. Did DM have a chance to text someone? Was he on the phone when he got pulled over? Was someone he knew following behind? CN's messages were short and impatient. Something BIG is missing.

It wasn't just MM's testimony today that revealed this. We had the timeline before. Did we think MS was trying to get the drugs without knowing about the arrest?

 

[billandrew]

I don't know if MM is lying or simply mis-remembering. However, would it be in her statement that she gave just 2 weeks after the fact? I can understand mis-remembering after 3 years, but at just 2 weeks out she'd know exactly what day it was. Yet, I can't reconcile her statement with what was in the MSM at the time. Nor can I discount it since the phone records actually do reconcile with what she's said.

I do have a hunch though, that the cross by the defense is going to be all over this if in fact the media did NOT report of his arrest until the Saturday. For no other reason than to present her to the jury as an unreliable witness.

moo

BBM. This is what I'm concerned about. If she's making up stories, then who's to believe anything else she said? I'm hoping that this won't impair her credibility too much.

One plausible explanation is that, rather than hearing about Millard's arrest, she simply heard the news that police were searching for a man with an ambition tattoo. If she knew that Millard had that tattoo, she might have asked Smich, "why are they looking for your friend?", in which case Smich may have become frantic and started making the phone calls to get the drugs and the gun from Michalski and Hagerman.

 

[pecosmom]

The breaking news flash tidbits came out early Saturday and the announcement of the arrest with DM's name followed in the early afternoon.

 

[SnooperDuper]

BBM. This is what I'm concerned about. If she's making up stories, then who's to believe anything else she said? I'm hoping that this won't impair her credibility too much.

One plausible explanation is that, rather than hearing about Millard's arrest, she simply heard the news that police were searching for a man with an ambition tattoo. If she knew that Millard had that tattoo, she might have asked Smich, "why are they looking for your friend?", in which case Smich may have become frantic and started making the phone calls to get the drugs and the gun from Michalski and Hagerman.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 44s44 seconds ago
Now shifting to day of Millard's arrest - Smich was with her at her sisters place when Millard's picture flashed across the TV news. #Bosma

All the tweets about this are on page 15 of this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?305676-Bosma-Murder-Trial-04-21-16-Day-38/page15

 

[Inspector_North]

May 10th.
6:22 pm Millard calls Smich.
7:19 Millard leaves Speers Rd. He'd been there for about 50 minutes. MS and MM are there.
7:35 Millard is pulled over and arrested.
8:04 - 9:12 Noudga sends 3 messages to Millard. Whishbone sends 1 text.
MS and MM are still at Speers Rd. and see the arrest on the news.
9:20 MS starts calling AM for the drugs

That is an insanely convenient fit. It wasn't even 2 hours before MS knew DM was arrested. I know all the phone calls aren't listed. What's missing. Did DM have a chance to text someone? Was he on the phone when he got pulled over? Was someone he knew following behind? CN's messages were short and impatient. Something BIG is missing.

It wasn't just MM's testimony today that revealed this. We had the timeline before. Did we think MS was trying to get the drugs without knowing about the arrest?

I think it is important to remember that MS most likely knew that LE would be visiting DM on the 10th. DM called in MS to help him load the truck after SS tipped him off that AJ called CS. Any additional information like MM hearing about the "Ambition" tattoo, and putting 2+2 together may have panicked MS. MOO

 

[Tilly23]

Were the early press releases regarding the timing of DM's arrest incorrect?

I'm using the "wayback machine" and looking at the news about the arrest of Dellen Millard in the Toronto Star as captured on Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 20:54.
Here's the link:
https://web.archive.org/web/2013051...im_bosma_arrest_made_hamilton_police_say.html

It says:

Toronto resident Dellen Millard, 27, was arrested on Cawthra Rd. in Mississauga Saturday morning.

Was DM arrested on the evening of Friday May 10? Or the morning of Saturday May 11?

 

[flipflop]

Why would then MS say to MM "don't tell em anything babe" at the time of his arrest. If MS was not involved in the murder, he had plenty of time to go to the LE.

Exactly!! She let on that all MS said was Dell did it all. He buried a gun wrapped in ducktape, location unknown to her. So what is it that he does he not want Babe to tell?

 

[pecosmom]

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 44s44 seconds ago
Now shifting to day of Millard's arrest - Smich was with her at her sisters place when Millard's picture flashed across the TV news. #Bosma[/

All the tweets about this are on page 15 of this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?305676-Bosma-Murder-Trial-04-21-16-Day-38/page15

Odd as I don't recall them posting his picture when his name was announced at the press conference..just the name.

 

[Sillybilly]

I don't think MM is lying. Her testimony seems to coincide with AM's testimony.

I also recall there was at least one report of a neighbour saying that LE had been at the Roseville farm since Friday (didn't say what time). After DM was arrested on Cawthra, I suspect he was allowed a phone call (whether to MB, CN, lawyer), and that started the word spreading like lightning.

From SC's tweet summary starting at line 3709:

3709
Crown asks Michalski if he'd seen Millard after May 7. He did not. Night of May 10 got call from Mark Smich. Apr 12, 2016

3710
"They got Dell. And I should get all the drugs out of the house." Apr 12, 2016

 

[billandrew]

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 44s44 seconds ago
Now shifting to day of Millard's arrest - Smich was with her at her sisters place when Millard's picture flashed across the TV news. #Bosma

All the tweets about this are on page 15 of this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?305676-Bosma-Murder-Trial-04-21-16-Day-38/page15

Haha, this is exactly why I keep harping on this issue. There are three possibilities here:

1. She's making up a story. Is there any incentive for her to do so? The defense will surely be all over her, right?
2. She's correct and Millard's picture was in fact shown on the news on Friday, May 10. However, most people are certain that Millard's name didn't come out until the 11th.
3. Her memory of the events is blurry and she didn't actually see his face on the TV until a later date.

Which do you think is most plausible?