Bosma Murder Trial 04.28.16 - Day 42

[mozzagirl]

I officially have a new term for someone bluntly lying, "pulling a CN".

 

[MorningStar22]

IMO she just described DM trying to squeeze out a tear. He's been observing so much grief here he's learning how do do it before our very eyes!

Ha. Touché. I'm done with trying to interpret any emotion in these two.

 

[ArianeEmory]

That is an interesting observation....how does that happen in a maximum security lock-up?

Are you following the testimony or media coverage? CN testified on the stand that MB was getting the letters to DM. If you don't believe that is what happened, what is your alternate theory of how the letters came to exist and be moved about, and ended up in evidence? Really don't understand what you're getting at.

 

[swedie]

I would think, unless there are still complexities of Canadian law I don't understand, that if they were going to bother charging MB with anything they would have by now.

Do you think additional charges might not have been laid yet because LE are awaiting a verdict on this trial? OR other charges are covered under the PB ban? MOO. CN charged almost a year after the fact because she was not a cooperating witness and her DNA found at the hangar along with TB's blood, LE knew she was more involved than any other in this circle of fools. MOO.

 

[Errrr]

I thought the plan was to go west?

This is the plan that's supposed to work on sappy women.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Do you think additional charges might not have been laid yet because LE are awaiting a verdict on this trial? OR other charges are covered under the PB ban? MOO. CN charged almost a year after the fact because she was not a cooperating witness and her DNA found at the hangar along with TB's blood, LE knew she was more involved than any other in this circle of fools. MOO.

PB ban is why I mentioned Canadian law--I'm still completely mystified as to what is and isn't "secret" up there.

But otherwise, LE has known for a couple of years what MB got up to, including the letter smuggling. I would think those either are or or not crimes regardless of the murder verdict. I don't know how prosecutors decide what cases to take on.

(In other words, everything I say is a guess.)

 

[Errrr]

CN's parents are both medical professionals, so I don't know why they would not be able to hire a lawyer. Not Brian Greenspan maybe, but a competent lawyer. They might have to go into serious debt to do so, as Guy Paul Morin's did.

If I were MB I would not want that info about going back to rub out fingerprint evidence coming out. Since this info appears to be gratuitous (not supported by any solid evidence so far as I know), then why mention it?

 

[ArianeEmory]

If I were MB I would not want that info about going back to rub out fingerprint evidence coming out. Since this info appears to be gratuitous (not supported by any solid evidence so far as I know), then why mention it?

Someone pointed out earlier that MB conveniently went inside to feed the cat while CN did the evidence tampering. I'm not certain if that's exactly how the testimony went, just saw the post.

 

[hopingforjustice]

Noudga also wrote to Millard — but those letters were not recovered by police. Only unsent drafts were found in the search of her bedroom. The jury heard she also sent him sexy photos of herself as well as a paw print from his beloved dog, Pedo.

She said she would send notes (and receive his) through his mother, Madeleine Burns.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6519142-bosma-trial-millard-wanted-roommate-to-change-his-story/

I wonder if there is anything useful to this case or the others in her "draft" letters?

CN stated today that DM wrote to her first but that she left that letter with MB. and the first letter read of today from DM was in response to her response to that letter. I didn't get that feel. I felt that this first read out letter was a response to her being the first letter writer. Remember it was noted way back when that she approached the attorney to see what she could do. I think she was told right then and there that she was on a no contact list. I think her and MB worked out the idea for MB to take letters. I think she wrote the first letter not him. Also as someone else also posted....us women are soft..as in love as she was, no way she was not keeping that first letter from her love if there was one. JMO

By the way..can any of them still be charged with breaking that order? Find it odd that MS got charged but not DM.

 

[Pink Panther]

Thanks....I think this means there was two guns.

Right. I agree. I think it shows up in the texts as well. Hagerman asks Dell about the "toys" and at some point Dell texted back "2".

 

[Errrr]

I'm not quite following what you think happened to Noudga's outgoing letters?

I'm saying a guy in a maximum security lock-up in solitary is receiving a lot of stuff that they don't even know about. What kind of prison is that?

 

[palisadesk]

I have to say Bundy was somewhat more subtle with his manipulation than Dell. But Bundy's jailhouse letters have that same tone; whiny and martyred, yet ultimately egotistical. It's been a while since I read The Stranger Beside Me, but I think Bundy came off as slightly more intelligent, and didn't use the same level of "purple" prose as Dell. But I'm sure someone else in this thread can refresh my memory on that. (Oops, I'm channeling Noudga.)

Agreed, The Stranger Beside Me was a gripping book. IIIRC, Bundy was quite intelligent, scoring an IQ about the same as Karla Homolka, around 135, which is in the Superior range. Nothing about DM suggests that his is particularly high. Probably in the average range, though as things have gone on another idea has crossed my mind. I still think psychopathy is a real possibility, but wonder about another condition that strongly influences behaviour, especially criminal behaviour: Fetal Alcohol Syndrome/ Fetal Acohol Effects (different medical terms for basically the same thing).

If MB drank while carrying DM, it is more than a possibility, it is a likelihood. However, there's no test for FAS/FAE (also called ARND - alochol-related neurodevelopmental disorders) except in those cases where the baby is born with specific facial changes, particularly small eyes, epicanthic folds, a narrow upper lip and an almost non-existent nasal philtrum (the two vertical grooves between the nose and mouth); these are only present if the mother drank during a particular period in the pregnancy of several days or so while the facial features were developing, but drinking at other times while it doesn't cause those specific visible changes can cause equal or even greater damage to the brain. Alcohol crosses the blood-brain barrier and it eats away at the brain like battery acid, so the FAS brain can look like Swiss cheese.

Children with FAS/FAE/ARND (pick your alphabet soup) are usually fairly normal as very young children and problems descend with a vengeance when they hit puberty.
A laundry list of problems:
-- compulsive lying, stealing
-- very poor social cognition (the understanding of what others think and feel)
-- no impulse control
-- sexual promiscuity
-- difficulty making friends (real friends)
-- inability to learn from consequences (this is lifelong. Consequences simply don't work to affect behaviour with affected individuals)
-- absence of fear when fear is appropriate, as of fires or weapons
-- very poor numeracy abilities
-- very poor planning and organizational skills

There's lots more. It's estimated that something like 40% of the prison population may be FAS/FAE (far higher than the number of psychopaths). Few can ever lead independent lives, though some, with strong family support, can manage jobs and semi-assisted living. They never learn to manage money.

The Ottawa Sun had a good series several years ago entitled "When Mommy Drinks" which disappeared from their website, but is now available here:
http://come-over.to/FAS/NewsCanada.htm

DM is a poster boy for some of these traits.

We tend to think that this is mostly a problem on reserves or in poor areas, but according to a Globe (IIRC) article which I can't find right now, the majority of cases in Ontario are born to middle-class or affluent women. I was surprised by this.

If DM wasn't diagnosed with this at birth, he won't be. Typically children with FAS (etc.) are diagnosed instead with LD, conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, cognitive disabilty, or other problems. Scientists are working to develop a screening measure that can be used at birth, because FAS is the most common cause of intellectual disability in North America; while other causes, such as PKU (phenylketonuria) have been nearly eliminated via screening and treatments.

But I wonder. Either psychopathy or FAS/ARND, neither can be "fixed." We have heard practically nothing about DM's late childhood behaviour and the like. Criminal behaviour rarely springs up ex nihilo.

 

[Pink Panther]

I mentioned it when the letters were introduced, but it reminds me of Francis Walsingham getting Mary, Queen of Scots to implicate herself in an assassination plot by allowing her "secret" correspondence with plotters to go on. Give them enough rope to hang themselves.

Sounds plausible. So, how do you think he was getting rid of the ones at his end? Was he eating them?

 

[ArianeEmory]

I'm saying a guy in a maximum security lock-up in solitary is receiving a lot of stuff that they don't even know about. What kind of prison is that?

Don't know, guess I didn't know this had turned into a referendum on prison letter security measures.

None of the lawyers are challenging the veracity of the letters, nor the story of how they were moved (via MB, who held I thought DM's power of attorney and could probably bring in paperwork). I wouldn't be shocked if the Crown allowed the letters through to gather evidence.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Sounds plausible. So, how do you think he was getting rid of the ones at his end? Was he eating them?

Keeping in mind I don't know how the Canadian prison system works:

I've been assuming MB is allowed to bring papers in when she visits. She shows DM the letters from CN. Then she takes them back out again. Not being as sentimental as CN, she probably shreds them afterwards.

My father was in federal prison in Miami, and there was no glass wall/telephone arrangement, it was families sitting at tables. We could bring stuff in, just had to be in transparent bags. This was the 90s.

 

[Claroon]

Don't know if this was discussed, but why on earth did she bother to bring up the sex expedition and other love making episodes? Sensationalism? It's totally irrelevant to the case IMO.

I mean, if you want to give details, how about where you went for dinner and what you ate, where he hid his bloody clothes, if he smelled like burned sweat, or whatever.

 

[palisadesk]

That is an interesting observation....how does that happen in a maximum security lock-up?

He could have shredded them into pieces and flushed them down the toilet, a little bit at a time.
.

 

[ABro]

PB ban is why I mentioned Canadian law--I'm still completely mystified as to what is and isn't "secret" up there.

But otherwise, LE has known for a couple of years what MB got up to, including the letter smuggling. I would think those either are or or not crimes regardless of the murder verdict. I don't know how prosecutors decide what cases to take on.

(In other words, everything I say is a guess.)

Charges can NOT be laid secretly in a democratic country. MB is not charged.

 

[newone]

CN stated today that DM wrote to her first but that she left that letter with MB. and the first letter read of today from DM was in response to her response to that letter. I didn't get that feel. I felt that this first read out letter was a response to her being the first letter writer. Remember it was noted way back when that she approached the attorney to see what she could do. I think she was told right then and there that she was on a no contact list. I think her and MB worked out the idea for MB to take letters. I think she wrote the first letter not him. Also as someone else also posted....us women are soft..as in love as she was, no way she was not keeping that first letter from her love if there was one. JMO

By the way..can any of them still be charged with breaking that order? Find it odd that MS got charged but not DM.

bbm: that's what I want to know as well. I found it odd that we did not hear details of MS breaking the DNC when MM was on stand.

 

[Errrr]

He could have shredded them into pieces and flushed them down the toilet, a little bit at a time.
.

Maybe they didn't care, as long as she kept the pipeline going? Conrad Blacks wife was under intense scrutiny every time she visited him in jail and he wasn't in for murder. MB knew she was being watched since she mentioned it to her son. Maybe they did know what was going on. I wonder if the Noudga garbage got sifted?