Bosma Murder Trial 05.02.16 - Day 43

[MsSherlock]

Yes I definitely think that.

I'm thinking that that's when it was cleaned out and IMHO, DM probably disposed of the evidence along the way and cleaned the bucket out at Riverside. I think DM would have believed that that's the only way LE would never be able to have sufficient evidence. If I'm reading his letters correctly, he was big into LE not being able to piece things together with physical evidence. MOO

 

[JPC]

Just for fun, here's the old 'Dellen was framed' thread.

http://tinyurl.com/z7foqhz

Unfortunately, working backwards through the tweets, it looks like the "Dell didn't apply for bail because threats" letter was undated, but other forum searches indicate people started really questioning his lack of trying to get bail fairly early on, and increasingly so in July through September of 2013. So I'm guessing he was reacting to public perception of his not applying for bail (in his letter to CN, and wherever) sometime in early fall of 2013.

In going down the old-thread rabbit-hole, I found this post I made just ten days after DM was arrested. Interesting how little my opinion has shifted in three years:

http://tinyurl.com/glf3cj7

That said, I wish I could recover some of the energy I expended in arguing with certain people.

(All links fixed)

Hahaha! I remember those days in the beginning. I ended up leaving WS and coming back when the trial started because it seemed so futile to watch all of these theories that DM was being framed

 

[loveisthemovement]

My question is why isn't the mother up on charges? Wiping prints. Paying people. Breaking court orders. Obstruction of justice much? How is this possible?

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It seems obvious to me that DM's disregard for the law was inherited.

 

[paris_paris]

I went and looked at billandrew’s timeline.

After the trailer was dropped of…
11-11:30 pm both of their phones ping in Kleinburg.
They drive to the hangar and the farm.
1:23 his phone pings in Milton and then he’s texting Hagerman (from her phone).
3:43 her phone pings in Milton.
4:10 he’s still texting Hagerman from her phone and arrives at Hagerman’s 2 minutes later.

Why was her phone in Milton for over 2 hours?

At 4:46 he texts Smich “Retooled for stormy weather, all clear, getting some sleep now, 7 am accounting meeting.”

 

[JuneBug67]

I agree, SnooperDuper. Not to defend his terrible spelling but there are a few words that I learned to spell in French before I knew them in English (as a child). I still spell them the French way unless I catch myself, which I normally do. For example, environment and environnement. So it's plausible that being educated in French could be part of the issue.

Point taken. But there's no such thing as le sepinae either. And servalence (or something like that) looks way less french than surveillance! He's just a terrible speller. Which doesn't mean much more than he's a terrible speller. But it's amusing enough when one needs a distraction from his destructiveness as a human being and the ugliness of his deeds.

 

[NashBridges2]

While I certainly don't think MS is innocent, I still question whether or not he actually knew Tim was going to be shot.

The flurry of texts back and forth before the crime with the exchange of sausages sizzling etc put the nail in his coffin for me

 

[Nosey Parker]

First time posting here - sorry if I'm not doing the quotes right :s

I think I remember reading texts between MS & DM re: fireworks (fireworks tonight, no fireworks tonight - somewhere along those lines) when DM was trying to set up test drives. My first thought was fireworks referred to gunshots - I'll try find where this came up, I think it was around the same time as the sausage pics and fireside furniture pics. Stood out to me as it made me want to vomit.

If fireworks does refer to gunshots, shows premeditation on both their parts

:fireworks::fireworks::wagon: MamaDora

 

[MsSherlock]

I'd love to know why as well.

Seriously, I don't know if I could handle someone like MB up on the stand. IMHO, LE and the media have been way to kind to this woman. Not that I like to see people suffer, but, IMHO, she was so incredibly self absorbed and idiotic that she was willing to do anything to keep DM and the money that he had "control" over out of jail, even if it meant tampering with evidence and breaking the law herself. IMO, failure to hold her accountable is sending the wrong message to other parents who may want to cover up for their offsprings criminal activity. No one wins when people like MB are allowed to go free- with her assistance, her son, DM, was trying to implicate MS and a couple of his "unknown friends", perhaps even the Bosma family themselves, along with attempting to tamper with evidence. IMO, she should be in jail. MOO

 

[JPC]

For some reason, my immediate reaction to the introduction of "Itchy" and his boys
Z was that he was referring to Isho and trying to pin everything on him (MS is already charged and is one of is Isho buddies). I don't see where it was verified that it was Smich. Just a theory on my part.


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[JuneBug67]

It seems obvious to me that DM's disregard for the law was inherited.

I find it hard to peg MB...yet. I do have some empathy for a mother who might perceive her son has been wrongly accused, and who responds by circling the wagons and providing support as she sees it. DM is wildly, wildly manipulative and a mother is perhaps willing to fool herself longer than some. This has to be a nightmare for her. He is her only child. But, granted, everything she's known to have done so far raises at least a little contempt.

 

[NashBridges2]

First time posting here - sorry if I'm not doing the quotes right :s

I think I remember reading texts between MS & DM re: fireworks (fireworks tonight, no fireworks tonight - somewhere along those lines) when DM was trying to set up test drives. My first thought was fireworks referred to gunshots - I'll try find where this came up, I think it was around the same time as the sausage pics and fireside furniture pics. Stood out to me as it made me want to vomit.

If fireworks does refer to gunshots, shows premeditation on both their parts

If someone who isn't on a cell phone and has access to this text back and forth with the links and pictures, can you repost it for those who missed it the first time. I know it was a real eye opener for me and I know several posters have posted this missed this part of testimony. I would do it but I'm on a cell phone and it's a pain to try and search for old stuff.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I know many members here have been around since the beginning and had to contend with DM defenders, so I get that it was likely frustrating for those long-time members who had insight into DM from the get go, IMO, but the way I look at it is that some people may have expressed their views honestly because they really didn't think DM was guilty, and not because they knew DM or had any ulterior motive to be here, IMO. OTOH, some posters, and I'm thinking of a specific few, may have been DM supporters with ulterior motives, IMO, but I can't say that is a fact, IMO.

I mention this now because I am sensitive to being labelled an "MS supporter" because I cannot yet state that I find him guilty, as most others here do, IMO. I can assure you all I only want to hear all the testimony pertaining to MS before concluding in my own mind that he is guilty as charged, and not because I have any ulterior motive. I don't know any of the people involved in this case, and my opinions are honest, even if they are not widely shared. Everyone arrives at their own conclusions in their own time, IMO. I hope members here understand my motives for being with WS and don't lump me in with those whose motives for posting here may be questionable just because I may or may not agree with the majority so far about MS.

All MOO.

I can only speak for myself, but even still I don't think anyone thinks you have ulterior motives.

I wanted to believe MS was less guilty than he seemingly is, and I'm still holding onto "not a sociopath", so I can understand where you're coming from. I also don't think he pulled the trigger. Unfortunately, I do believe he knew the whole plan. But we have a lot less to go on with him.

 

[Nosey Parker]

For some reason, my immediate reaction to the introduction of "Itchy" and his boys
Z was that he was referring to Isho and trying to pin everything on him (MS is already charged and is one of is Isho buddies). I don't see where it was verified that it was Smich. Just a theory on my part.


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That was my first inclination too, but later the tweets did quote DM as saying MS was 'Itchy'. IIRC

 

[musicaljoke]

My assumption is that he was trying to corroborate an alibi with her.

Or throw her under the bus.

 

[MsSherlock]

I know many members here have been around since the beginning and had to contend with DM defenders, so I get that it was likely frustrating for those long-time members who had insight into DM from the get go, IMO, but the way I look at it is that some people may have expressed their views honestly because they really didn't think DM was guilty, and not because they knew DM or had any ulterior motive to be here, IMO. OTOH, some posters, and I'm thinking of a specific few, may have been DM supporters with ulterior motives, IMO, but I can't say that is a fact, IMO.

I mention this now because I am sensitive to being labelled an "MS supporter" because I cannot yet state that I find him guilty, as most others here do, IMO. I can assure you all I only want to hear all the testimony pertaining to MS before concluding in my own mind that he is guilty as charged, and not because I have any ulterior motive. I don't know any of the people involved in this case, and my opinions are honest, even if they are not widely shared. Everyone arrives at their own conclusions in their own time, IMO. I hope members here understand my motives for being with WS and don't lump me in with those whose motives for posting here may be questionable just because I may or may not agree with the majority so far about MS.

All MOO.

Hey I waffle on MS all the time. The more I hear about DM manipulating things, I even start to question the cook out pics and everything else DM had MS do. Can't figure out why MS would have been happy the morning after- I'd like to hear the answer to that one, but the contents of the letters are making me wonder about MS's involvement....again. MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

For some reason, my immediate reaction to the introduction of "Itchy" and his boys
Z was that he was referring to Isho and trying to pin everything on him (MS is already charged and is one of is Isho buddies). I don't see where it was verified that it was Smich. Just a theory on my part.

I had the same thought, because wouldn't MS's 'boys' have had to ride bikes or skateboards when marshaling their gang? Heh.

But:

In this letter, Millard mentions the possibility of "Itchy" (who Noudga thinks is Smich) may have threatened violence against his family.

Millard says he didn't attempt bail because "I would be a sitting duck for the killers who would want to ensure I never talk. Maybe Itchy told this to [Michalski]. Maybe [Michalski] will tell the court. I need this kind of help to win this."

"Maybe Itchy's boyz were somehow already involved with the dead guy, or his wife," Millard writes. He seems to be suggesting this as a possible story Michalski could give.

I don't know enough about the backstory of MWJ, other than the gun purchase, to know if this makes sense with Itchy being him.

Mark could also be Itchy because opiates (like oxycontin) make people itchy, and this was (I think) the same letter where DM introduces the oxycontin thing.

Or could just be some other weird DM reference.

 

[brightii]

For some reason, my immediate reaction to the introduction of "Itchy" and his boys
Z was that he was referring to Isho and trying to pin everything on him (MS is already charged and is one of is Isho buddies). I don't see where it was verified that it was Smich. Just a theory on my part.


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My thoughts exactly. It will be interesting to see that particular letter where Itchy was mentioned because it seemed from the tweets that he also mentions Mark by name in the same letter, but this could have been just tweeted out of context and these names may have been mentioned in different letters, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Mark Carcasole ‏@MarkCarcGlobal 4m4 minutes ago
Back in court at #MillardSmich trial. Should resume in a couple mins. #TimBosma

Mark Carcasole ‏@MarkCarcGlobal 2m2 minutes ago
#Bosma family having been sitting with/on purple pillows in court. Tim's favourite colour.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 42s43 seconds ago
And we're back. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 33s34 seconds ago
#Bosma jury coming back from lunch. Noudga is on the stand.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 14s14 seconds ago
Crown says there are two more letters left. Leitch asks her about her earlier testimony on the way to Kleinburg... #Bosma

Mark Carcasole ‏@MarkCarcGlobal 12s12 seconds ago
Only two letters left says Crown attorney Tony Leitch. #MillardSmich #Bosma

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 24s24 seconds ago
Two more letters, we're told. Crown asking about Noudga's testimony about drive from her house to Kleinburg to drop off trailer.

Ann Brocklehurst ‏@AnnB03 22s22 seconds ago
only two more letters left says Tony Leitch at #timbosma trial

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 24s25 seconds ago
jury back. #TimBosma. 2 more letters. @AM900CHML

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 18s19 seconds ago
Leitch -- you said there was not very much discussion between you and Millard. Was he using your phone? Were you?
Noudga does not recall.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 13s14 seconds ago
2 letters left. Leitch asking about ride from Kleinberg to trailer, when Noudga says she was performing sexual favours on Millard.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 27s27 seconds ago
Was he using his phone? Were you? Noudga says she doesn't recall. Now looking at text messages from May 9

 

[Errrr]

Again with the "sex" angle of answering questions in order to have Leitch move along.

IMO, it was more that the letters were answers to his questions about her tampering with witnesses.

Hmmm..I'm getting the suspicion that Rabbit is putting pressures on her to help and she wants to keep up the impression that she is complying (when she isn't). JMO