Bosma Murder Trial 05.11.16 - Day 47 - Smich Defence commences

[Claroon]

Who is MB? I also don't recall it being testified to that TB was in the incinerator during the drive from farm to hangar. Do you mean MS? If so, I will search the tweets. TY!

I'm sure Typhoo meant MS. It is a collection of tweets you put together-- DM put him in the incinerator, next thing you know they are at the hangar.... IMO

 

[SuperSpy]

IMHO, DM wanted that truck, somehow felt entitled to that truck, he was going to keep that truck ... No way would he get rid of it. MOO

Then he was a complete idiot. Period. Can't explain stupid.

 

[ILoveDateline]

MS stated that DM LOOKED FOR trucks online with MS, MM and another girl participating.

Then I misunderstood you. Or the testimony. I believe MM and another girl were present in the room when DM, AM and MS were looking at trucks online and discussing stealing one. It was not reported that the girls ever went on any test drives. IMO.

 

[Claroon]

Did any of the tweets imply how DM supposedly shot TB once he picked up the gun from the Yukon? ie. did MS imply DM was outside the vehicle or back in the vehicle. If outside, on which side?

 

[ArianeEmory]

I'm sure Typhoo meant MS. It is a collection of tweets you put together-- DM put him in the incinerator, next thing you know they are at the hangar.... IMO

There is at least one tweet where a reporter says something very close to "Tim's body is in the incinerator at this point". TD/MS definitely rushed past that part but it's there.

 

[Errrr]

So I wonder what went down in the truck between DM and TB.

Sorry to bring it up, but how does a driver pull a gun on a passenger sitting 2 feet away and get a shot off without the passenger getting the gun from the shooter ? The passenger would have 2 hands, the driver only 1. The driver would have to shoot with his left hand. It would be too awkward to shoot with the right and the gun would be very close to the victim.

Kind of hard to think that the driver would get the gun out and aim it without the passenger seeing it.

1. DM is left handed.
2. TB maybe calling SB at that moment.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Did any of the tweets imply how DM supposedly shot TB once he picked up the gun from the Yukon? ie. did MS imply DM was outside the vehicle or back in the vehicle. If outside, on which side?

It was confusing but think DM was already carrying the gun when he got out of the truck. He was stuffing it into his bag while walking to the Yukon to get a flashlight.

 

[Gibson67]

Do you think it's possible MS gave this statement to police after his arrest and the crown based their evidence on his statement? It's astounding how his testimony lines up with the evidence.

 

[don_quixote]

Sorry for the long post, but I really can't find MS saying that they moved the body inside of the incinerator. Here are the relevant twits from p. 39 of this thread. Is it the "huffed and puffed" part that DM did it himself? I'm surprised that it was not clarified. Can anybody confirm or direct?

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
"After that he got out of the vehicle. He proceeded to open the hatch of the Eliminator. He asked, well, he told me to help put #Bosma in."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
Millard asked "well he told me" to help him put Mr #Bosma into the Eliminator. "I told him I can't."

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 3m3 minutes ago
Smich "Millard opened the hatch of the eliminator... he told me to help him put Mr. #Bosma in the eliminator. I told him I can't" @CTVNews

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Millard then told Smich to help him load Bosma into the Eliminator. #TimBosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 2m2 minutes ago Vaughan, Ontario
Smich says Millard told him to help him put Bosma's body inside The Eliminator. 'I told him... I can't' his voice shaking #Bosma #HamOnt

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
He said he used his bad shoulder as an excuse, "but I didn't want to go anywhere near that." #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 3m3 minutes ago
"We pulled the eliminator up to bosma. He opened the hatch and told me to put him in the elimator." Said he cldnt because of shoulder.

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 3m3 minutes ago Vaughan, Ontario
Smich says he blamed his shoulder, but that wasn't the entire truth #Bosma #HamOnt

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
Millard opened hatch of The Eliminator. "He told me to help him put Mr. Bosma into the Eliminator and I told him I can't.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
"I told him I can't." Smich says he didn't want to be part of it, but blamed it on his shoulder to Millard. Says Millard "huffed" as if mad

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 3m3 minutes ago
He said it was because of his shoulder but really he says "I didn't want to be anywhere near that." #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
I didn't want to be anywhere near that. That's not what I told him. I told him it was because of my shoulder...but I was out.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
He says Millard then gave a "huff." #Bosma

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 3m3 minutes ago
Smich "He was mad, told me to close barn door and move SUV to front. and we would go to hangar next." #Bosma @CTVNews

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
There's no word to say what was going on through my mind at the time."

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 3m3 minutes ago
Millard, he says "huffed and puffed" "there were no words to describe what I was thinking." They left the farm to go to hangar. @AM900CHML

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
Smich moved the Yukon to the front and pulled onto the road. Chained the fence back up after Millard exited in #TimBosma truck, then followd

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
They then closed the barn. Smich then opened the gate, Millard drove the truck out. Smich locked the gate. They headed to the hangar. #Bosma

 

[Inspector_North]

Which one is it MS?

MOO

 

[Bellbaby]

I believe MS to a point. But I have a few questions too.

I'm not sure what the Tim Hortons story is...

1.) Hypothetically, if DM told TB that he wanted to test drive the truck and go to a Tim Horton's to discuss the sale, when did MS get into the Yukon? It had to have been immediately after leaving TBs house. Then DM, in the truck alone with TB, did DM pretend he didn't know where Tim Hortons was and start driving to Brantford?

2.) Wasnt there a video security tape of the possible shot, as the vehicle drove through Brantford? I'm curious as to the driving distance/length of time from TB home to the location in that video.

3.) Where was the bullet hole in the truck? During cross of MS, can't the crown ask where the location was of the bullet hole in the glass, acvprding to MS? And then forensically analyze to see if that is even possible, i.e. the glass wouldn't just blow out from that force at a bullet at close range?

 

[Claroon]

[*]MS says this was only supposed to be scoping out a truck for a potential robbery. They even hide the Yukon so no one can recognize the vehicle or read the plates. But don’t you raise more suspicion, by walking up a long driveway, essentially in the dark, on a Monday night after 9 pm for a test drive, a car nowhere to be found despite being out in a rural area? I know the Tim Horton’s story that was told in front of SB and WDB, but if the plan is to steal the vehicle later that night (or even if it is to steal it at gunpoint and leave Tim unharmed), TB has his phone and can tell police about the calls from the Bate phone. Surely these idiots knew that, so hiding the Yukon was both unnecessary and likely threw up red flags right away? That is why I still believe murder was part of the plan, and it was premeditated. They didn't want anyone to ID their vehicle, because if they liked the truck, TB (and his phone) was never coming back up that driveway.

All MOO.

Yes, any sensible person would just have his buddy drive up and if buddy was to follow, would follow. The only thing I can think is they didn't want anyone knowing it was a Yukon.

My question is, I know the sun was setting, but I'd think TB would see no one was in the car. Also what's the discrepancy between parking it on a sideroad and coming out of the farm lot like the neighbour said? And I assume the part about, "follow so we don't have to come back" meant TB would drive it back himself. But I'd be suspect if they said they were from Toronto but yet were headed West. IMO

 

[Typhoo1961]

nobody knows how they'd react in that situation with a gun pointed right at them. In that moment I'd imagine it's terrifying.

It is very terrifying.

 

[Claroon]

It was confusing but think DM was already carrying the gun when he got out of the truck. He was stuffing it into his bag while walking to the Yukon to get a flashlight.

MS says next thing he knew "he seen" a bullet hole. What is he implying happened? What I'm getting at is it is unlikley DM shot from outside because the casing was found in the truck. IMO

 

[Jug Up]

Did any of the tweets imply how DM supposedly shot TB once he picked up the gun from the Yukon? ie. did MS imply DM was outside the vehicle or back in the vehicle. If outside, on which side?

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think it was ever said DM picked up the gun from the Yukon. I think the only reference was MS saying DM got out of the pickup and was put "what looked to be a gun" in his satchel when they pulled over in Brantford.

It sounds like MS was saying when he pulled over behind DM in Brantford, it was almost a swerve over to the side of the road and that TB was dead, obviously shot in the truck as MS was following all the way.

 

[don_quixote]

Why I'm asking about the incinerator details is because it appears that the body was on the truck bed at some point.... Based on the multiple splashes in the well, and the luminol photo of the rear gate.

 

[deugirtni]

I have to give MS at least some credit for manning up and telling his version of what happened that night, but I still think he is a who should spend the rest of his life behind bars. He told the jury what they wanted to hear, and I am guessing that DM’s dogs are going to be all over him like a bad rash in cross.

IMHO, MS is telling some of the truth, perhaps even most of it. I think he is conveniently leaving out crucial details of his involvement. I guess if I was on a first degree murder rap, I, like most of us, would do what I can to avoid life without a chance of parole for 25 years.

That said, a few things really bothering me about today’s testimony:

• MS says this was only supposed to be scoping out a truck for a potential robbery. They even hide the Yukon so no one can recognize the vehicle or read the plates. But don’t you raise more suspicion, by walking up a long driveway, essentially in the dark, on a Monday night after 9 pm for a test drive, a car nowhere to be found despite being out in a rural area? I know the Tim Horton’s story that was told in front of SB and WDB, but if the plan is to steal the vehicle later that night (or even if it is to steal it at gunpoint and leave Tim unharmed), TB has his phone and can tell police about the calls from the Bate phone. Surely these idiots knew that, so hiding the Yukon was both unnecessary and likely threw up red flags right away? That is why I still believe murder was part of the plan, and it was premeditated. They didn't want anyone to ID their vehicle, because if they liked the truck, TB (and his phone) was never coming back up that driveway.

• I still don’t understand how the whole “my friend can’t find Tim Horton’s” story (one TH is about two minutes away), finding the “friend” parked in a field and then having go all the way to Brantford didn’t raise red flags with TB. That is why I questions MS’s story of how it all went down. He was the father of a young daughter, who was a mere couple of hundred yards away. Surely, he was cautious of what was playing out and was starting to put the pieces together. Why go for a ride to Brantford unless it was against his will? So they didn’t have to come back to Ancaster, and MS and DM could leave in the Yukon and TB could drive his truck home? But, Tim already knew they were “coming from Toronto.” Ancaster wasn’t exactly out of the way on the way back. It isn’t adding up. Of course, that is assuming MS is telling the truth and he learned of the shooting when they pulled over in Brantford.

• MS was couldn’t move Tim’s body, partly because of his shoulder and partly because he did not want to, but had no problem partying it up in the following days, including at his sister’s wedding, smiling with a cigar hanging out of his mouth. He wasn’t as distraught as he wants everyone to believe. A distraught man would have gone to the police before being arrested in broad daylight a couple of weeks later. He was just well coached today. He is still a d-bag, and even if his account told today is true, he was still involved in a planned robbery that led to a murder.

That said, and as much as it pains to say it, the timelines at the Brantford Bobcat seem to line up. Unless I am mistaken, they pull over at 9:49 and leave around 10:04. Tim’s phone was apparently turned off at 10:02.

I think, for the most part, MS is telling the truth about pulling over on Oak Park. That would give him about 15 minutes to see what had happened (whether he knew the murder was coming or not), change the plates, and leave the scene, discarding the phone out the window.

Speaking of which, how incredibly stupid were these two? With Tim now dead, they throw his phone out a window ONTO THE FREAKING GRASS instead of smashing it to bits and getting rid of it forever? Really? Did they not think it would be found, especially given the news that was sure to hit TV the following day? That the first thing police would do was turn the phone on and trace its last known calls, to see if there was any connection to a missing man 20 minutes away, and that the phone would be tied to the Lucas Bate phone? Did they not think the police would be looking at that right away, and be able to trace its whereabouts? For “career criminals”, these two sure were a couple of ****ups.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions, and I have a feeling we are going to get a lot of answers in the next couple of days. I also think, for whatever reason, CN and some of the players in this motley crew of misfits might be feeling quite nervous this evening. The lies are going to start catching up to some of them very shortly....

I pray for the Bosma family tonight. Even though Tim has been gone for three years, today’s testimony must have hit with the force of a sledgehammer in its finality.

All MOO.

Imo, it totally makes sense to conceal their vehicle from the people from whom they are about to steal a truck. The description of the truck would be the starting place for police to look for the thieves who took it after it was reported stolen. Without a vehicle, what did they have to follow up on? A description of 2 guys? DM thought he had himself covered by using the burner phone, which couldn't be traced to him. Little did he know that it could be matched up to HIS phone's locations through the night. Who would have thought of that?

Just because Bobcat was chosen by DM as the pullover point, doesn't mean that is where TB was shot. He could have been shot anywhere/anytime along the way, no?

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I could understand stealing one in a low profile way and swapping the diesel engine into the gasser. But I can't understand the logic of killing the owner to get one and then keeping it as your personal driver. It would attract way too much attention to the truck. As it did. Was the plan too brazen or was there another plan ? Maybe a chop shop was supposed to buy it and give DM the engine. All he needed was the engine and maybe the transmission to convert his current truck to diesel.

IMHO, there is no "normal" logic or rationale involved in this horrendous, senseless crime at all. Dellen wants something, Dellen feels entitled to take that something, regardless of the horrific, unimaginable pain he leaves in his wake. I just don't have the words ...

 

[ArianeEmory]

Sorry for the long post, but I really can't find MS saying that they moved the body inside of the incinerator. Here are the relevant twits from p. 39 of this thread. Is it the "huffed and puffed" part that DM did it himself? I'm surprised that it was not clarified. Can anybody confirm or direct?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12546351

 

[SnooperDuper]

So if we are to believe MS's testimony today, many here seem to believe his response to TB's murder was normal behaviour or at least an understandable reaction to an extraordinarily traumatic situation, if I'm interpreting some comments correctly, IMO.

Perhaps then I am the more abnormal person among us, as I would expect that a reasonable and more believable response in the circumstance would be first to escape if possible from the murderer, and to call police to report the murderer at my first opportunity if I had a cell phone with me so that the murderer could be apprehended and pose no more threat to anyone else including me, IMO. MS did have a cell phone, and he was driving alone in the Yukon allegedly behind DM and therefore, IMO, MS did have the opportunity to either escape and get to a police station or at least call the police, IMO.

MS not only did neither, he didn't report the murder to police ever - even later when DM was in custody - even anonymously - and MS had also instructed MM not to tell the police anything at the time of his own eventual arrest, and that is not IMO an understandable or excusable reaction to a murder, IMO. I cannot imagine that I would have risked putting myself in harm's way by assisting a murderer at a dark and isolated location such as DM's farm or at his hangar - especially knowing DM had the Eliminator and what that was going to be used for - because I know myself, and that prospect would have terrified me, IMO, because I'd think very naturally that I could well be DM's next murder victim, IMO. MS did not seem to seek protection from DM at any time later either, IMO.

Yeah, so maybe I'm odd, but I hope there are more people like me who would actually respond to the shock of a murder by telling the police what they knew and by not assisting the murderer to evade suspicion or capture, IMO. If I didn't, for some inexplicable reason report a murder that I knew had happened and by whom, even it it may have implicated me in a planned truck theft, that colossal failure of human decency would haunt me for the rest of my days and IMO I'd deserve to feel stressed or suffer from PTSD. I can't believe that most people would have reacted as MS says he did, and I sure hope most wouldn't, IMO.

All MOO.

You're absolutely right brightii, your reaction would be normal. MS's behavior after the murder was not.