Bosma Murder Trial 05.16.16 - Day 49

[musicaljoke]

He claims that he was [scared/paranoid] after the murder.

But the evidence from other witnesses, in the videos, texts, and wedding pix, don't support that he was scared/paranoid right after the murder.

 

[RandomName479]

Of course, he might believe that a life sentence rests on that gun. Who knows what's going through his mind. Remember that there is already evidence that it was MS's gun.

I wasn't able to follow closely yesterday.....so I may have missed this....what evidence was there that the gun was MS's? I thought we had evidence that DM bought it? Pics of both of them with it? Or are you referring to BD testimony that there were 2 guns? (which still doesn't prove that the gun in the toolbox was MS's) what am I missing? MOO

 

[littlesauce]

I haven't had time to read through everything since MS took the stand, but I find myself inclined to believe his version of the story. Except, then I remember that he is charged in the LB murder as well and my inclinations go out the window.

I've missed you all!

Right, but to be fair and just, we can't look at the LB case when making our decisions on the TB case... Even if he did have a hand in the LB case, that doesn't mean he also did with TB. MOO

 

[Juballee]

You have me there.

My big one is hiding valuables when I'm going to be away from home for a while and forgetting where I hid them.

Oh, and prescription pill bottles. (Grew up around too many addicts, sadly, so I automatically assume any visible rx bottle is a target for the cat sitter or whomever.)

Memory wise, there is a huge difference between the act of putting an object away in a specific spot in your home and burying something in the woods. How many hours do you spend in your home, and how many things do you touch, every single day. Now contrast that with how many times you've buried something in the woods. The difference is so great that comparing the two memories is like comparing apples and tennis rackets.

Not to give too much away, but for me all the speculation is moot because I have actually been in a position in my long and varied life to bury something in the woods in an adrenaline rush. Trust me, you remember where it is no problem, even if it's a forest you have never been to before. You remember markers along the way, your time sense might be a little off, but your spacial senses kick into overdrive because you are so worried about being caught that you become very observant. And yes, finding the spot again, even years later is not hard at all. It's trying to forget the spot that's hard, it's like not thinking of an elephant when someone says 'Don't think about an elephant!'

I bet MS is having a hard time not visualizing the spot every time he's asked about it, unless he's learned a memory trick or has taken a mild sedative before testifying. If he actually buried it, which I am believing less and less. The more he refuses to elaborate in any way the details of his story, the more it assures me it is a version that he and his lawyer cooked up that he cannot deviate from without showing its a big lie.

 

[andreww]

.

Too many guns to keep track of (all 2 of them ... haaa)

We have to keep in mind the trafficked gun is allegedly the one used on WM in 2012 .... and police likely have it

(from the article) .... According to the Hamilton Spectator, police believe Mr. Ward-Jackson, Matthew Odlum and Matthew Jackson Wawrykiewicz, sold Dellen Millard the gun he allegedly used to kill his father. The three were charged in Toronto court two days before the new charges against Mr. Millard and Mr. Smich were announced. They have pleaded not guilty.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

But that says Millard had two guns. In the evidence we saw Smich indicates that Millard got the gun he wanted and Smich got another. So did Smich ever get a gun or were they all Millards?

 

[Juballee]

And a final thought about the gun. Who's to say ballistic tests wouldn't show that the gun had been used to kill somebody else?


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Ahhh, great point! That's the best reason I have heard so far why MS would want to keep the gun hidden if his story about DM shooting TB is to be believed.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I haven't had time to read through everything since MS took the stand, but I find myself inclined to believe his version of the story. Except, then I remember that he is charged in the LB murder as well and my inclinations go out the window.

I've missed you all!

I'm kind of in the same boat. His version (mostly) comes off as believable to me. But then, there's that other charge.

I suspect part of the reason he does seem believable to me is accounting for the last 3 years. While DM spent his time writing letters to CN trying to come up with a way to snow the jury, MS spent the last 3 studying to get his GED and continue his education. Now on the surface that doesn't really say much but it does speak to their separate priorities. I suspect DM is exactly who he was 3 years ago while MS may not be. If that makes any sense.

 

[andreww]

Memory wise, there is a huge difference between the act of putting an object away in a specific spot in your home and burying something in the woods. How many hours do you spend in your home, and how many things do you touch, every single day. Now contrast that with how many times you've buried something in the woods. The difference is so great that comparing the two memories is like comparing apples and tennis rackets.

Not to give too much away, but for me all the speculation is moot because I have actually been in a position in my long and varied life to bury something in the woods in an adrenaline rush. Trust me, you remember where it is no problem, even if it's a forest you have never been to before. You remember markers along the way, your time sense might be a little off, but your spacial senses kick into overdrive because you are so worried about being caught that you become very observant. And yes, finding the spot again, even years later is not hard at all. It's trying to forget the spot that's hard, it's like not thinking of an elephant when someone says 'Don't think about an elephant!'

I bet MS is having a hard time not visualizing the spot every time he's asked about it, unless he's learned a memory trick or has taken a mild sedative before testifying. If he actually buried it, which I am believing less and less. The more he refuses to elaborate in any way the details of his story, the more it assures me it is a version that he and his lawyer cooked up that he cannot deviate from without showing its a big lie.

The thing that people seem to be ignoring is that Smich obviously prepared the gun as to protect it until he could dig it up again (bagged and taped), so you can bet your life that he would bury it at a spot he was very familiar with.

 

[Typhoo1961]

But the evidence from other witnesses, in the videos, texts, and wedding pix, don't support that he was scared/paranoid right after the murder.

That was why I said 'He claims'.

 

[Ontario Mom]

What made MS scared and paranoid? It seems to me that the really scary stuff happened earlier than when he ... erumphhh... buried the gun. The evidence suggests that he wasn't scared/paranoid at the time of the murder.

Oh I dunno, seeing first hand what DM was capable of, and not really mentally processing it until after it was over and he was away from him? I know it sounds like I'm sort of defending MS but I'm really not. Just trying to look at all possibilities. There are lots of people who, in the moment of a traumatic or frightening event will just go into auto-pilot and do what needs to be done. It's later, when they really think about how horrifying or surreal it is, that they lose it. Maybe that's what happened with MS? Maybe? Possibly?

I know I'm in the minority here thinking this way but there it is I still think he needs to face severe punishment for *any* part he had in this nightmare. I just don't see him as the cold blooded killer I see DM as.

 

[Coldpizza]

Good morning. I've opened up the trial thread a little early today. Please keep posts limited to today's tweets and proceedings.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?308212-Bosma-Murder-Trial-05-17-16-Day-50

Also, we may someone to help post General MSM Tweets. Not sure if SnooperDuper will be able to. :scared:

Thank you :smile:

 

[Jug Up]

I bet MS is having a hard time not visualizing the spot every time he's asked about it, unless he's learned a memory trick or has taken a mild sedative before testifying. If he actually buried it, which I am believing less and less. The more he refuses to elaborate in any way the details of his story, the more it assures me it is a version that he and his lawyer cooked up that he cannot deviate from without showing its a big lie.

I am on board this train. I think he is pulling his version of a CN, and not giving away anything that will all but assure a first degree murder conviction.

I honestly believe the jury will see right through this charade. I've been following differences of opinion here for months, and now I am involved in those back and forths. Some of us agree to disagree.

The difference, of course, is the jury has had to look at the Bosmas in the front row these past few months, seeing the profound pain in their eyes. Don't underestimate the effect that will have when they begin weighing the evidence in deliberations.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I know I'm in the minority here thinking this way but there it is I still think he needs to face severe punishment for *any* part he had in this nightmare. I just don't see him as the cold blooded killer I see DM as.

I'll join you on that bench. MS should get severe punishment as you say but DM needs to be put away for good.

 

[RandomName479]

Oh I dunno, seeing first hand what DM was capable of, and not really mentally processing it until after it was over and he was away from him? I know it sounds like I'm sort of defending MS but I'm really not. Just trying to look at all possibilities. There are lots of people who, in the moment of a traumatic or frightening event will just go into auto-pilot and do what needs to be done. It's later, when they really think about how horrifying or surreal it is, that they lose it. Maybe that's what happened with MS? Maybe? Possibly?

I know I'm in the minority here thinking this way but there it is I still think he needs to face severe punishment for *any* part he had in this nightmare. I just don't see him as the cold blooded killer I see DM as.

I basically agree with you. Agree that we are in the minority.....and I am trying to figure out how much of what I believe is because I see DM as a complete psychopath and in comparison I am primed to believe MS's version of events. Also agree that MS is in no way innocent and should serve a lengthy prison sentence.....but I don't think DM should ever see the light of day again......MOO

 

[Nosey Parker]

Memory wise, there is a huge difference between the act of putting an object away in a specific spot in your home and burying something in the woods. How many hours do you spend in your home, and how many things do you touch, every single day. Now contrast that with how many times you've buried something in the woods. The difference is so great that comparing the two memories is like comparing apples and tennis rackets.

Not to give too much away, but for me all the speculation is moot because I have actually been in a position in my long and varied life to bury something in the woods in an adrenaline rush. Trust me, you remember where it is no problem, even if it's a forest you have never been to before. You remember markers along the way, your time sense might be a little off, but your spacial senses kick into overdrive because you are so worried about being caught that you become very observant. And yes, finding the spot again, even years later is not hard at all. It's trying to forget the spot that's hard, it's like not thinking of an elephant when someone says 'Don't think about an elephant!'

I bet MS is having a hard time not visualizing the spot every time he's asked about it, unless he's learned a memory trick or has taken a mild sedative before testifying. If he actually buried it, which I am believing less and less. The more he refuses to elaborate in any way the details of his story, the more it assures me it is a version that he and his lawyer cooked up that he cannot deviate from without showing its a big lie.

Agree, and that is why serial killers, with many concealed bodies over the years, invariably are able to lead the police almost directly to them.

MS lived and rode around Oakville for ten years. There really aren't any 'forests' until you get to the Sixteen Mile Creek area. Discounting parks, and the Glen Abbey Golf Course (which is near his mother's home), they are ravines, usually dividing sub-divisions, with plenty of dog walkers, and often a short cut for school children (as it would have been for him, getting from one drug deal to another). If he used one of those, he would know which one. I don't buy any of his story, least of all the 'gun' issue.

 

[Arnie M]

Where's the gun(s)?

I told you I am not telling you

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 48 Min.
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"Meineid" means "perjury"

 

[Jug Up]

I basically agree with you. Agree that we are in the minority.....and I am trying to figure out how much of what I believe is because I see DM as a complete psychopath and in comparison I am primed to believe MS's version of events. Also agree that MS is in no way innocent and should serve a lengthy prison sentence.....but I don't think DM should ever see the light of day again......MOO

Dangerous offender? I totally agree.

Of course, LE probably has a ton of evidence on him in the LB and WM cases. I think he will be categorized a dangerous offender in due time. He won't be getting out in 25 years.

Smich, maybe, but I guess we'll have to see his involvement in the other two cases, if he was indeed involved. MOO

 

[Typhoo1961]

I told you I am not telling you

Don't make me get CN. She has ways of making you talk.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Dangerous offender? I totally agree.

Of course, LE probably has a ton of evidence on him in the LB and WM cases. I think he will be categorized a dangerous offender in due time. He won't be getting out in 25 years.

Smich, maybe, but I guess we'll have to see his involvement in the other two cases, if he was indeed involved. MOO

The hardest part for me is trying to keep the other case separate (he's only charged in the one, not both) because that's what this trial is all about. But I can't actually separate them because I know that charge is still there. MS did make a comment on his first day of testimony that no one else was ever physically harmed in one of their "missions". Of course WE all thought "oh, what about Laura?!" But I don't think he was lying about that, because I don't think whatever happened to her, happened as part of one of their "missions". So technically, he can easily separate that out.