Bosma Murder Trial 05.18.16 - Day 51

[Sillybilly]

A rumour has been removed. Please do not start an entire discussion based on a posted rumour.

:tyou:

 

[Kamille]

Maybe he wanted to get rid of a truck used in a previous crime but not appear that he got rid of a truck. And remember, he told people he'd been trying for a year to swap these trucks. Timing kinda fits.

Do you think he could fool homicide detectives with this "swap"?

 

[JPC]

BBM No need! That is the whole point of this place!!!

I agree with you 100% on pretty much everything you wrote. For the record, I don't believe anything 90% of the witnesses that are the inner circle have stated. I believe Daly (who I believe was the one that was very emotional) and MM (for the most part) but everyone else....covering their the best they can! MOO

I agree as well. I still blame DM's original attorney and MSM for crafting the "DM is an aviation heir and scion" myth. His defence strategy may have been "he has $$ why would he steal a truck". I live in Toronto and you don't see the Millard family living in tony areas like Forest Hill, Rosedale or the Bridle Path...Not even on the Kingsway. They don't hobnob with the old money or new money families. He lived in a dumpy house with broken down old cars. I think that the bloom was off the rose back when CM ran the business. IMO what made this an interesting story from a MSM perspective was that this young, handsome aviation scion could do something so deplorable ( think Menendes brothers) against a defenseless "every man". It sells papers and attracts eyeballs to computer screens. At the end of the day MS and DM are one and the same in my eyes. People want to hate DM because he is so cocky and for some reason are now giving MS a pass. They were both drop out losers who contributed nothing to society.

 

[lclabtech]

Do you think he could fool homicide detectives with this "swap"?

No.

But I don't think he's anywhere near as smart as he thinks he is.

 

[Martha Morris]

Yes, no need to shut up, you've made some very valid point and it's your opinion. Some of us "fence-sitters" need to see all sides. And yours is no exception!

Personally, lack of physical evidence is what has me on the fence at this point. (When the crown rips him apart, I may fall off onto the other side as I expect will happen.)
Why is there no DNA of MS where there is of DM and CN? Why no MS fingerprints anywhere?
Why no MS trail from his phone? (yes I realize he could've ditched the phones but they did find a bunch)
Just to point out a few questions I'm struggling with. I don't believe they could've cleaned up only their part but not DM's. MOO

They are highlighting in court how DM had the money, he didn't need to steal. I think we've all said the same thing at one point.
This "rich guy" with all these assets (not talking about debt) - needs to steal a truck????
They are missing key points as to why he planned this for over a year if he had the money.
Why if he was so desperate didn't DM just BUY it?

I think if I ever get the answers to some of these questions, it might be more clear to me. For me, I can see that MS is making this "fit".
I believe he knows what happened to the gun or at least where he initially put it. (not sure he knows where it is now)
I believe he's leaving out details
I believe he's placing blame on others in regard to the gun, the drugs, etc etc

But trying to say if you're into rap, poor, petty criminal, doesn't make you a murderer. Show me the evidence!!!
If DM didn't shoot TB, prove to me MS did.

Or just convict both of first degree and be done with it (said tongue in cheek)

JMO

Bolded by me.

Hope I'm doing this ok. Not used to getting involved in discussions on WS. I'm usually more of a lurker than a poster.

I agree, being a 'poor rapper, petty criminal' etc, doesn't make you a murderer, and there is no clear, forensic evidence to suggest Smich - or indeed Millard - pulled that trigger.

But what we do know about Mark Smich is this. He was a drug dealer, a societal drop out with a criminal record. He had a drink and drug problem that meant he was high most of the time, which he conveniently uses to explain his black out amnesia, which only seems to kick in when it involves any kind of memory that might incriminate him. He had no money and had an interest in gansta rap and wrote gansta rap lyrics which in itself doesn't mean anything, but when added to everything else we know about him .. does kind of provide a clue to where he was at. He was a willing thief, and took pictures of himself holding guns. On every expedition he went on with Dellen Millard who he describes as 'like a brother' he went willingly. He wasn't forced, coerced, he participated in the planning and the 'execution' (apologies for word, but in this context, I am refering to the execution of the theft, 'mission' and so on).

What we also know about Smich is that, after he claims the 'lunatic' Millard shot TM and he was so utterly shocked and traumatised .... he followed his 'brother' back to the hangar, he waited while Millard went to buy fuel for the incinerator (presumably while Mr. Bosma's body lay somewhere close by) he burned seats, he hosed down a truck, he picked up his girlfriend the following morning in a cheerful and celebratory mood (according to her), he took possession of drugs and guns after the event, attended a wedding and did absolutely nothing, not a single thing, to bring any kind of relief, justice, assistance ... to TB's family.

He kept quiet right up until the time his very shrewd and canny lawyer announced he would be taking the stand, when it became apparent that DM would not be mounting any kind of defence.

DM's defence team are not the prosecution. They are not here to convict MS, they are here to defend their client. All they can do is try and hammer away at MS's character and credibility, annoy, rattle, irritate MS and hope he slips up. What they can't do is prove that MS fired that gun anymore than Dungey can prove that DM did, and to be fair to them, the onus is not on them to do so.

The Crown on the other hand want to see them both go down, and the Crown know that they were both there, they were both complicit enough to level first degree murder charges at the pair of them, and they will be able to go after MS in a way that DM's defence team are unable to. I personally hope they tear MS a new one, because I have gone full circle from finding his testimony credible, to now believing he is every bit as despicable as his partner in crime.

 

[sab_bri]

They'd be fools not to peek into our conversations!

I hope the Crown Lawyers are also reading these threads..

 

[Crimeinthe6ix]

Bolded by me.

Hope I'm doing this ok. Not used to getting involved in discussions on WB. I'm usually more of a lurker than a poster.

I agree, being a 'poor rapper, petty criminal' etc, doesn't make you a murderer, and there is no clear, forensic evidence to suggest Smich - or indeed Millard - pulled that trigger.

But what we do know about Mark Smich is this. He was a drug dealer, a societal drop out with a criminal record. He had a drink and drug problem that meant he was high most of the time, which he conveniently uses to explain his black out amnesia, which only seems to kick in when it involves any kind of memory that might incriminate him. He had no money and had an interest in gansta rap and wrote gansta rap lyrics which in itself doesn't mean anything, but when added to everything else we know about him .. does kind of provide a clue to where he was at. He was a willing thief, and took pictures of himself holding guns. On every expedition he went on with Dellen Millard who he describes as 'like a brother' he went willingly. He wasn't forced, coerced, he participated in the planning and the 'execution' (apologies for word, but in this context, I am refering to the execution of the theft, 'mission' and so on).

What we also know about Smich is that, after he claims the 'lunatic' Millard shot TM and he was so utterly shocked and traumatised .... he followed his 'brother' back to the hangar, he waited while Millard went to buy fuel for the incinerator (presumably while Mr. Bosma's body lay somewhere close by) he burned seats, he hosed down a truck, he picked up his girlfriend the following morning in a cheerful and celebratory mood (according to her), he took possession of drugs and guns after the event, attended a wedding and did absolutely nothing, not a single thing, to bring any kind of relief, justice, assistance ... to TM's family.

He kept quiet right up until the time his very shrewd and canny lawyer announced he would be taking the stand, when it became apparent that DM would not be mounting any kind of defence.

DM's defence team are not the prosecution. They are not here to convict MS, they are here to defend their client. All they can do is try and hammer away at MS's character and credibility, annoy, rattle, irritate MS and hope he slips up. What they can't do is prove that MS fired that gun anymore than Dungey can prove that DM did, and to be fair to them, the onus is not on them to do so.

The Crown on the other hand want to see them both go down, and the Crown know that they were both there, they were both complicit enough to level first degree murder charges at the pair of them, and they will be able to go after MS in a way that DM's defence team are unable to. I personally hope they tear MS a new one, because I have gone full circle from finding his testimony credible, to now believing he is every bit as despicable as his partner in crime.

A very well rounded and thought out post -

 

[Kamille]

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Back in court. Legal arguments now before the jury returns. #Bosma

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 8m8 minutes ago
Legal discussions first before Jury comes in. Can't report. Talk soon. #Bosma @CTVNews

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
Legal arguments now at the Tim #Bosma murder trial.

 

[meterclicks]

Don't see Velma online so... (feel free to take over whenever you'd like, if you come back)



Court is now back in session, but the jury isn't in yet.
by Adam Carter 1:51 PM

We're in legal arguments right now.
by Adam Carter 2:00 PM

The jury is now being recalled.
by Adam Carter 2:04 PM

 

[meterclicks]

Sachak starting out now talking about Monday May 6.
by Adam Carter 2:06 PM

Smich says the plan was supposed to be this was a scoping mission.
by Adam Carter 2:07 PM

Sachak says they were going to go there to check out the location, and test drive it to see if Millard liked it and if it had a GPS. Smich agrees.
by Adam Carter 2:08 PM

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder why DM would have 'five-fingered' some practice bullets for MS, and why he would have wanted 'Shaner' to build an incincerator if the intent was not to shoot the truck owner?

DM's defence theory that MS screwed up by shooting TB and that is why he didn't receive his supposed payment of the Caddy seems to forget that it seemed to be very much a part of DM's plan for getting his 3500?

Adam Carter
· Apr 18 2016 2:14 PM
From the Millard phone to "Say 10" in 2012: "I think we can grab that truck I need before I to to the states next. They are common enough, it doesn't have to be that one, it just has to be a Dodge 3500, red's just a bonus." The response back "We need a proper plan though, so lets work on that. We can't make any mistakes."

Adam Carter
· Apr 18 2016 2:15 PM
A text from the Millard phone to Say10 in 2012: "five fingered you some practice ammo." They then proceed to talk about .380 ammo.

Adam Carter
· Apr 18 2016 2:16 PM
Court now seeing photo of bullets that was attached to that message.

Adam Carter
· Apr 18 2016 2:17 PM
May 2012 from the Millard iphone to Say 10: "Lets get to work, got some empires to build. Part a) getting you a base and me a Dodge 3500."

Adam Carter
· Apr 18 2016 2:18 PM
A text from the Millard phone to "Shaner" on May 16, 2012: "Soon I'm going to want you to put together a home made incinerator."

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yes, no need to shut up, you've made some very valid point and it's your opinion. Some of us "fence-sitters" need to see all sides. And yours is no exception!

Personally, lack of physical evidence is what has me on the fence at this point. (When the crown rips him apart, I may fall off onto the other side as I expect will happen.)
Why is there no DNA of MS where there is of DM and CN? Why no MS fingerprints anywhere?
Why no MS trail from his phone? (yes I realize he could've ditched the phones but they did find a bunch)
Just to point out a few questions I'm struggling with. I don't believe they could've cleaned up only their part but not DM's. MOO

They are highlighting in court how DM had the money, he didn't need to steal. I think we've all said the same thing at one point.
This "rich guy" with all these assets (not talking about debt) - needs to steal a truck????
They are missing key points as to why he planned this for over a year if he had the money.
Why if he was so desperate didn't DM just BUY it?

I think if I ever get the answers to some of these questions, it might be more clear to me. For me, I can see that MS is making this "fit".
I believe he knows what happened to the gun or at least where he initially put it. (not sure he knows where it is now)
I believe he's leaving out details
I believe he's placing blame on others in regard to the gun, the drugs, etc etc

But trying to say if you're into rap, poor, petty criminal, doesn't make you a murderer. Show me the evidence!!!
If DM didn't shoot TB, prove to me MS did.

Or just convict both of first degree and be done with it (said tongue in cheek)

JMO

Well, we got the answer about no trail from his phone. It's because his SIM cards had all conveniently disappeared. JMO

 

[Prairie_dawg]

hmmm IF they were only on a scoping mission at the time of the test drive, then WHY did DM have the plates off the red Dodge??? Premeditation on DM's part for sure, unless they were going to try the hot wire trick!!!!
If they were planning on coming back after the test drive later that night or a day later with the red Dodge plus the trailer then they would NOT have needed the plates. JMO

 

[Kamille]

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
Jury is back. Sachak takes Smich to the night of May 6, 2013. He agrees this was supposed to be a "scoping mission." #Bosma

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
May 6. Smich and Millard drove to #Bosma residence. It was supposed to be a scoping mission? Yes.

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Sachak suggests they discussed going to test drive the truck, to see if it's the truck Dellen likes. Smich says yes. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
They were also looking to see if there was any kind of GPS tracker etc. "Because of what happened with the Bobcat," Smich says. #Bosma

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Had been a GPS is stolen Bobcat and police showed up at hangar, says Sachak. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Smich agrees Millard wanted to make sure this was a truck that suited his needs. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
They would make sure police couldn't detect the stolen vehicle. They would make sure the truck was diesel and drives properly. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
"He had a mechanic who would fix up things," Smich said. The main purpose was looking for problems. "Dellen Millard wanted a diesel truck."

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
"Dellen Millard wanted to get a diesel that he could switch with his gas one," Smich says. #Bosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 1m1 minute ago Vaughan, Ontario
Smich "Dellen Millard wanted a DIESEL truck, to switch for his gas one" He enunciates clearly as he says Dellen Millard #Bosma

 

[meterclicks]

"He wants to ensure that the police cannot detect this vehicle if subsequently steals it?" Sachak asks. "Yes," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 2:09 PM

Smich again says Millard wanted a diesel Dodge Ram to switch for his gas one.
by Adam Carter 2:10 PM

"So you get there, and there was no discussion between you and Dellen that you will have to drive away in a GMC Yukon for this scoping mission," Sachak says. Smich says no.
by Adam Carter 2:12 PM

 

[Kamille]

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Smich: "Like I said, Dell is cheap. If he were to take one that didn't work...that would cost a lot to fix it." #bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
"The main thing, obviously, it would have to be drivable, and it had to be diesel," Smich says. That's part of why they test drove.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 25s25 seconds ago
No discussion that you would have to drive away in a Yukon during this scoping mission? Smich says no, "that wasn't part of the plan."

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
"If you're going to steal one, steal one that's nice at least," Sachak suggests. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Smich adds Millard was cheap, so he didn't want one that would require a lot of work. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Sachak suggests there was no discussion that he'd have to drive away in the GMC Yukon. Smich says no there was not. #Bosma

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 1m1 minute ago
Finally talking about May 6. #Bosma @CTVNews

 

[Kamille]

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Smich says they got there, looked for a place to park and then made the phone call. #Bosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 2m2 minutes ago Vaughan, Ontario
Smich says it wasn't part of the plan for him to follow in Millard's GMC Yukon. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
"That was never part of the plan," Smich says, of him following Millard and #Bosma in the Yukon during the theft.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
There was no discussion that Smich would have to drive away in the Yukon? No we just looked for a place to park, got out and made phone call

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Sachak suggests Dellen also knew Smich didn't have his driver's license. Smich agrees. #Bosma

Pierce Lang ‏@piercelang_tv 1m1 minute ago Hamilton, Ontario
Sachak "There was never a plan where by he would drive away and you would follow in the GMC Yukon." MS- "that was not the plan" #Bosma

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Sachak says he just wants to know plan for #Bosma. Millard knew Smich didn't have a driver's license and was convicted of impaired.

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 2m2 minutes ago Vaughan, Ontario
Sachak: Dellen knew you didn't have a driver's license, right? He knew you had been convicted of impaired? Smich: Correct #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Agrees Millard also knew he'd been convicted for impaired driving and had a driving prohibition. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Millard knew he hadn't taken the mandatory course (part of the court order) required to get a license. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Millard had his license suspended in the past, Smich agrees. He hired someone to drive him around. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Smich agrees he was not there to see this, but knew their friend Steven Kenny was driving him. #Bosma

 

[meterclicks]

Sachak says Millard knew Smich didn't have a licence, and Smich agrees. Also agrees Millard knew he had an impaired driving conviction.
by Adam Carter 2:13 PM

Sachak says when they were driving to the Bosma home, there was very little traffic. Smich agrees.
by Adam Carter 2:16 PM

Sachack now talking about Supersucker by the Ancaster, Ont. fairgrounds, where video was seized.
by Adam Carter 2:17 PM

 

[Jug Up]

Here we go.....

 

[Kamille]

Adam CarterVerified account ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
Sachak says when they were driving to the Bosma home, there was very little traffic. Smich agrees. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Sachak asks about their drive to the #Bosma house. Smich agrees there was very little traffic. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
Smich was prohibited from driving, couldn't get license without taking a special course. Millard had his license suspended more than once.

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Millard hired a driver when his license was suspended. 9-9:30 p.m. driving to #Bosma residence, very little traffic? Smich says rural area.

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Smich says "it's a country road looking area, farm type of area." #Bosma

Adam CarterVerified account ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
Sachack now talking about Supersucker by the Ancaster, Ont. fairgrounds, where video was seized. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Sachak asks if Smich knows where SuperSuckers Inc is (where surveillance video was captured). He knows from court, yes. #Bosma

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Sachak talking about Super Sucker. Smich says he knows about it from court. It's 2.3 km away from #Bosma home. So only a few minutes away?

Adam CarterVerified account ‏@AdamCarterCBC 57s58 seconds ago
Supersucker is about 2.3 km away from the Bosma home, Sachak says. The drive to get there would be pretty quick, he adds. #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Sachak asking about SuperSucker, which is about 2k from #Bosma home; its cams caught Yukon & #TimBosma truck passing by May 6, 2013

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
It's about 2.3 km from the #Bosma house. Would only take a few minutes drive, Smich agrees. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 49s49 seconds ago
Sachak asks when they get to the intersection of Trinity and Book Roads. The GMC Yukon is parked on a laneway there. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 25s26 seconds ago
Smich says re: area, "you'd literally be parking on someone's property or on the side of the road, so we needed to find a place to park."

Adam CarterVerified account ‏@AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
Smich says they looked for a place to park, and Millard found a spot on a side road by the Bosma home. #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
At the intersection of Book Rd and Trinity, the Yukon was parked on a little pathway near a field. "We looked for a place to park," Smich

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 33s33 seconds ago
Smich agrees. Dell looking for place to park Yukon so they can scope. Will walk in?