Bosma Murder Trial 05.25.16 - Day 55

[leafs_fan93]

I am curious to know why some people believe that MS has to be "in the truck" in order to be found guilty of 1st degree murder?

I am trying to understaand the reasoning behind this belief. TIA


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He doesn't have to have been there. But he then would have had to know ahead of time that TB was going to be killed.

 

[hellkat2]

Before or after MS got out of the RAM? TB would have to have gotten out of the RAM to let MS out ... then TB gets back into the RAM and they shut the vehicle door and then shoot him??? And then drive to Bobcat to switch plates? That makes no sense.

Four door.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

He doesn't have to have been there. But he then would have had to know ahead of time that TB was going to be killed.

Thank you for this explanation ... So not the actual fact of his presence in the truck, but rather the point is whether or not MS had previous knowledge of the plan, thereby premeditation by both defendants?


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[Arnie M]

Wish I could see an aerial photo of the Bosma house in relationship to where the yukon was parked. I don't think there is one.

Been lots of them .... via Google Maps and Google Earth .

 

[Typhoo1961]

Wish I could see an aerial photo of the Bosma house in relationship to where the yukon was parked. I don't think there is one.

Here you go..... the Bosmas home is at 1230 Trinity Road and the red X marks where the Yukon was parked in the field.

 

[Errrr]

The only evidence against MS being not being involved is his own. Everything else points to him planning and being a part of it.

Against him not being involved?

 

[hellkat2]

Excellent research, and excellent shot, Billandrew. It is much appreciated, and makes it so much easier for me to picture how this could have been the murder spot. They really would have been out of sight behind those trees, and it is remote enough it is unlikely any of the neighbours would have heard the shot. Perhaps TB was shot as he was doing up his seatbelt after he quickly got out and let MS get out, then got back in. Another poster was right. With only one door on the passenger side, he would have had to quickly exit and get back in after letting MS out to go to the Yukon. He would have been a bit distracted at that moment. I think DM is a real coward, and he wanted to have his gun out, but hidden, and take advantage of TB at just the right time. This may have been more important to him than keeping the inside of the truck clean, and -----what if he wanted to take the blood evidence away with him in the truck, and not leave it in the field ??? ----- What if this was part of the plan all along, and not a fiasco resulting in a big clean up ??? Ms testified that DM liked leather seats, and no carpet on the floors of his vehicles. This way they did not have to risk being seen loading a bleeding body back into the truck, or getting blood on the outside of the truck; they had to drive on other roads of course to get to the incinerator. One bullet hole through a window that would shatter in place, and could be rolled down could be hidden too. Would they have placed a blanket from the Yukon over the slumped body in the front seat, and quickly driven off, as the neighbour described, the Yukon following the truck ? It is possible IMO. No glass or blood would be left in the field. It was a portable crime scene with the body. The body would be made to "disappear in the incinerator", and the evidence in the truck could be made to disappear as well. In their minds, a very clever way to dispose of the evidence, and still make a quick get away. I doubt that they found this lane and field so close to Tim's that evening. I think DM or MS found it earlier, and that they indeed would have scoped out the area well, once DM decided to steal from "the nice guy". Or did the location make him decide that TB would be the perfect victim ? I can see him going for a nice drive with CN, and finding just the right spot. Does anyone know what they were doing on the day or evening before, or even the morning or afternoon of the day TB was murdered ? Sorry, I do not have time now to check Bill's excellent timeline. IMO

When did police search this field ? I think perhaps they did not respond to the neigbour's phone call for a few days. If so, that is unfortunate, because tire tracks would probably have been washed away by rain, and also erased by other vehicles driving over them.

It was a four door.

 

[sleuther76]

They were given due process. Nothing came out during trial that made me question the crown's case. The only question is why they pled not guilty in the first place. They should have confessed to the crime. Perhaps the public would have been more open to the possibility of parole after 25 years. Mea culpas have a way of bringing about sympathy. These punks still carry on like they did nothing wrong. For that, the public wants absolute punishment.

MS admitted to AATF, he did not say he did nothing. AATF is a very serious crime with large possible jail sentences.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Four door.

Yes, I found that out a couple of minutes later.

 

[hellkat2]

How about a bullet? At least one bullet supposedly traveled through the passenger window according to MS. Not sure if I believe only one was fired though. I would imagine the bullet the killed TB was left lodged in his body. I don't think it's possible for a .380 bullet to travel through two sides of the skull and a window. It is not that high powered of a gun IMO.

I'm not sold on the idea that TB was actually shot in that field. Driven back there, deceased, after being shot somewhere else, to pick up the Yukon and get the heck out of the area? I do believe that is possible. And if he was shot by DM while both were in the front seat, I can't see how that would have gotten much if any blood spatter or GSR into the back seat behind the high front passenger seat where MS was likely sitting. Certainly not enough to transfer into the Yukon and still be detectable 4 days later after the Yukon had been used repeatedly by DM to travel back and forth to Waterloo during that 4 day time frame.

MOO

ETA: No one has come forward to say they were driving north and then south on Trinity Rd that night between the time frame of 9:05pm to 9:15pm in a truck that was just like the missing truck. I wouldn't imagine there was anyone who was in that vicinity, especially if they lived in the area, who wasn't aware of what happened to TB because he was selling a truck just like the one they were driving on the same road the night he was kidnapped and murdered. That makes it pretty hard to believe that the timestamp on the video wasn't off by more than an even 3 hours and that it wasn't TB's truck passing by the camera 3 times that night, the last time with the Yukon following it.

I agree that it seems unlikely that TB was shot there. Shot before seems more likely.

 

[Arnie M]

DM sure pointed his finger at MS quite a bit in those letters imo.

Once the Jury is sequestered I wonder if we will get to see all the redacted portions that were not allowed in the trial. Got to be some juicy stuff there if defense fought to keep it out.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Once the Jury is sequestered I wonder if we will get to see all the redacted portions that were not allowed in the trial. Got to be some juicy stuff there if defense fought to keep it out.

That made me laugh. There probably is some. I figure it was sexually explicit stuff he wrote to her and that was why it was blacked out buuuut in his letters they missed where DM said he was going to look out of his cell window, think of CN and touch himself. My jaw dropped when I read that.

 

[canadiangirl]

He doesn't have to have been there. But he then would have had to know ahead of time that TB was going to be killed.

And that's my personal sticking point. I'm not convinced MS knew of the murder "plan" ahead of time. Some text messages? What else am I missing? Web search for a Dodge ram? Guess AM is guilty too. He was there for the computer search. Incinerator searches and texts? Guess that makes SS guilty. He built one for DM and also sent texts when his "boss" is asking where generators are amongst other things. Just to name a few.

DM did what DM wanted without consequences up until that point. He had all his minions along for the ride. He had the untouchable syndrome which is IMO why MS "f*cked up". He f*cked up" by hanging off a "rich kid" who's luck ran out. For what? Drugs and money? The pay was crappy. We all know that! DM was in it for himself. The jailhouse letters still resonate with me. All the planning and trying to frame MS from his cell. Trying to get friend's testimonies changed. Using your gf help you clean up your mess? Giving her evidence to hide? Using your own mother to get letters to CN? Dropping the truck off at your MOTHER'S house? Using your long time family friend to hide the murder weapon unbeknownst to him in the middle of the night? Using your Uncle for a pet cremation story? Really? Just to name a few.

This shows me DM liked to place blame on everyone except himself. Didn't matter who you were in his life. Family wasn't exempt. If he was going down, you were too.

I think it's very likely DM knew exactly what he was doing in regards to pinning it on the guy with a criminal record with drug and gun hook ups.

Does any of this mean MS completely innocent? No. But I still can't find him guilty of murder one right now.

MOO

 

[ILoveDateline]

They were given due process. Nothing came out during trial that made me question the crown's case. The only question is why they pled not guilty in the first place. They should have confessed to the crime. Perhaps the public would have been more open to the possibility of parole after 25 years. Mea culpas have a way of bringing about sympathy. These punks still carry on like they did nothing wrong. For that, the public wants absolute punishment.

Hey, I agree with you to a certain degree. I'm tough on crime. The crown has proved their case that these two killed TB, burned his body and tried to cover up the crime. But there can only be one trigger man and each has set out to say it was not them but the other person. If the charge was AATF then, perhaps, both would plead guilty but they can't plead guilty to murder 1 and say the other guy pulled the trigger. They're both guilty of crime here but it can't be proved who pulled the trigger and so people here are expressing their opinion of what they thing might have happened.

IMO, there isn't a concrete case on MS as trigger man and that put me on the fence as to his guilty for murder 1. We don't know what the judge's instruction will be. It might point the jury to say they can find him guilty of murder 1 or a lesser charge. People are throwing out AATF but it might be murder 2 or something else. We don't know but I think everyone agrees MS will remain in jail for a long time. JMO.

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[billandrew]

Although I'm surprised by all the so-called "fence-sitting" around MS's guilt, I respect everyone's opinion nonetheless. For me personally, the evidence overwhelmingly supports a first degree murder conviction for both DM and MS. It is well beyond the reasonable doubt threshold in my view.

It all comes down to how we weigh the evidence. I do not give MS's story any weight, for several reasons which I have discussed in previous posts.

I will respect whatever the jury decides, but I will be disappointed if MS gets a lesser conviction than first degree murder.

 

[matou]

Too bad it takes top notch lawyers one full week to write up their closing arguments. Ridiculous IMO.

 

[Elisabeth]

He doesn't have to have been there. But he then would have had to know ahead of time that TB was going to be killed.

Or he (MS) had to be involved in forcible confinement in which Tim Bosma died. It could be standing outside the truck pointing a gun at Tim preventing him from leaving.

 

[mimimic]

I believe ratting to be telling LE and/or the public/media not new or old friends in jail. It's a unspoken code that you zip it. I believe many involved in this case lived by this code. JMO.

Did I understand you correctly? ah no. i think it means telling LE/public/media as well. Although my question is IF he seriously didn't know a shooting was going to happen by his partner in crime and he tells his new friends that he was only counteracting the framing his partner was doing anyway or ...ah i'm so good with wording!! If i were a thief and my partner pulled a gun

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....ah no. i think it means telling LE/public/media as well. Although, my question is; IF he says seriously didn't know a shooting was going to happen by his partner in crime and he tells his new friends that he was only counteracting the framing his partner was doing anyway or ...ah i'm so good with wording!! If i were a thief and my partner pulled a gun and THAT WASN'T THE PLAN - that's still ratting?
sorry cut and paste went weird there i thought i had to have it out of the quotes. while i have you...funny i always tell kids not to tattle, unless it's a safety thing - not sure how i should look at that!

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Hey, I agree with you to a certain degree. I'm tough on crime. The crown has proved their case that these two killed TB, burned his body and tried to cover up the crime. But there can only be one trigger man and each has set out to say it was not them but the other person. If the charge was AATF then, perhaps, both would plead guilty but they can't plead guilty to murder 1 and say the other guy pulled the trigger. They're both guilty of crime here but it can't be proved who pulled the trigger and so people here are expressing their opinion of what they thing might have happened.

IMO, there isn't a concrete case on MS as trigger man and that put me on the fence as to his guilty for murder 1. We don't know what the judge's instruction will be. It might point the jury to say they can find him guilty of murder 1 or a lesser charge. People are throwing out AATF but it might be murder 2 or something else. We don't know but I think everyone agrees MS will remain in jail for a long time. JMO.

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But, legally speaking, it doesn't matter who pulled the trigger.


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[brightii]

Although I'm surprised by all the so-called "fence-sitting" around MS's guilt, I respect everyone's opinion nonetheless. For me personally, the evidence overwhelmingly supports a first degree murder conviction for both DM and MS. It is well beyond the reasonable doubt threshold in my view.

It all comes down to how we weigh the evidence. I do not give MS's story any weight, for several reasons which I have discussed in previous posts.

I will respect whatever the jury decides, but I will be disappointed if MS gets a lesser conviction than first degree murder.

I agree entirely!

The part I bolded is important to stress because everyone is using this platform to arrive at their own conclusions and tolerance and respect for the opinions of others is always important, and especially when engaging in sensitive discussions.

Thankfully we here won't decide the fates of DM and MS, the jury will. I hope they will come to an agreement and make a decision that the Bosma family and the public can accept as just. Both accused have received a fair trial and I trust the verdicts for each of them will reflect that truth.

All MOO.