Bosma Murder Trial 06.1.16 - Day 57 - Closing Arguments Day 2

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All My own opinion:

Today was a fine example, and a reminder, of what good legal representation is, and what the law is all about.

Yes. The crown so far has a decent case. It isn't bullet proof, and a lot of the testimony presented is full of holes and lies, and people protecting their own interests (CN and her later trial). We know, regardless of MS' testimony on the stand, that TB died at the hands of DM and MS. Maybe one, maybe both of them committed the crime. Only the two defendants know the truth. The bigger question, is which truth is actually factual. MS gave testimony, and some of that testimony is backed up and correlated by physical evidence (video footage, lack of GSR in yukon, etc). There are some flaws with his story, but not critical, and after cross examination, the crown didnt come forward with evidence or witness which disproved his testimony. DM has provided no testimony, and we were subjected to the poor ability of his legal councel in cross examination, and his rambling and suggestion of what DM claims happened. Unfortunately, his ramblings didn't help his or DM's appearance of supposed innocence, and the theories made even less sense, with little previously entered physical evidence backing up DM's scenarios.

I've read a few opinions on this thread, and I do not agree largely with those that just want to watch someone fry - not justice, but vengeance. I am a firm beleiver in the justice system, and the conviction has to fit the crime. Yes, TB died and it was horrible. But before we completely remove someones freedom and strip them of some of their charter rights, the very charter rights that soliders die for, and ever Canadian takes for granted, we MUST be sure we convict the correct person, for the correct time, and that they serve the correct sentence. I don't care of MS or DM are sleazy, manipulating, or what ever I think of them. One of them pulled the trigger, and we have to be damn sure which one planned that murder before we slam them away for 70+ years.

Today was a good example of the legal system at work. It established that only one person could have commited Murder in the first degree, and that the other committed second degree, at worst. Dungey did a good job showing that it was possible that it was actually a murder in the second commited by DM, and that MS was accessory after the fact.

At this time, I'm inclined to think that DM commited First or Second degree (mountain against him), and that MS was accessory after the fact (no GSR in yukon, video footage backs his story better than DM's story, etc), after my taking into consideration the facts of the case, the testimony given, and evidence entered. I do not pay attention to stories, speculation and theories in a court room. They don't belong there.

Tomorrow the crown has their turn. My opinion might change, again.

All my own thoughts and opinion.
 
"
Question. Sorry, folks, but I know nothing about GPSs. Are some of them hidden away? Why would it be necessary to go on a test drive to actually see if a vehicle had GPS? Couldn't one just look through the windows of a parked vehicle to see if one was mounted in the car? Would it be a common question to ask a seller over the phone before arranging a test drive? And if a GPS can be hidden, how would a test drive confirm whether there was one or not?"

A few years ago I worked for a oil Co. that had a dozen units.

They all were fitted with GPS ( tattle-tails that would tell the where and speed of unit).
It was a box smaller than the size of a carton of sigs.
These were off to the left under the steering column.
No one knew about them except everybody.
The drivers used to swap out the fuse with a blown one.
 
Do we think the Judge will begin his charge on Friday and finish on Monday (as its been stated it could take up to two days to deliver ) or would they just wait til Monday for him to deliver hai charge, then go into deliberations.
 
Millard's tattoos, "I am Heaven sent, don't you dare forget", are lyrics from a song. Seems like he should have tattooed Smich's so-called innocent lyrics instead, "My .380 iz no stranger, when I'm angered you're in danger."

Funny how that works. DM's lyrics show how egotistical he is, but MS's lyrics are just a rap song, means nothing.
 
All My own opinion:

Today was a fine example, and a reminder, of what good legal representation is, and what the law is all about.

Yes. The crown so far has a decent case. It isn't bullet proof, and a lot of the testimony presented is full of holes and lies, and people protecting their own interests (CN and her later trial). We know, regardless of MS' testimony on the stand, that TB died at the hands of DM and MS. Maybe one, maybe both of them committed the crime. Only the two defendants know the truth. The bigger question, is which truth is actually factual. MS gave testimony, and some of that testimony is backed up and correlated by physical evidence (video footage, lack of GSR in yukon, etc). There are some flaws with his story, but not critical, and after cross examination, the crown didnt come forward with evidence or witness which disproved his testimony. DM has provided no testimony, and we were subjected to the poor ability of his legal councel in cross examination, and his rambling and suggestion of what DM claims happened. Unfortunately, his ramblings didn't help his or DM's appearance of supposed innocence, and the theories made even less sense, with little previously entered physical evidence backing up DM's scenarios.

I've read a few opinions on this thread, and I do not agree largely with those that just want to watch someone fry - not justice, but vengeance. I am a firm beleiver in the justice system, and the conviction has to fit the crime. Yes, TB died and it was horrible. But before we completely remove someones freedom and strip them of some of their charter rights, the very charter rights that soliders die for, and ever Canadian takes for granted, we MUST be sure we convict the correct person, for the correct time, and that they serve the correct sentence. I don't care of MS or DM are sleazy, manipulating, or what ever I think of them. One of them pulled the trigger, and we have to be damn sure which one planned that murder before we slam them away for 70+ years.

Today was a good example of the legal system at work. It established that only one person could have commited Murder in the first degree, and that the other committed second degree, at worst. Dungey did a good job showing that it was possible that it was actually a murder in the second commited by DM, and that MS was accessory after the fact.

At this time, I'm inclined to think that DM commited First or Second degree (mountain against him), and that MS was accessory after the fact (no GSR in yukon, video footage backs his story better than DM's story, etc), after my taking into consideration the facts of the case, the testimony given, and evidence entered. I do not pay attention to stories, speculation and theories in a court room. They don't belong there.

Tomorrow the crown has their turn. My opinion might change, again.

All my own thoughts and opinion.

This!
:applause:​
 
Do we think the Judge will begin his charge on Friday and finish on Monday (as its been stated it could take up to two days to deliver ) or would they just wait til Monday for him to deliver hai charge, then go into deliberations.

IIRC, Susan Clairmont tweeted today that although court is sitting on Friday it will be without the jury, probably for legal arguments, and that Justice Goodman will begin his charge on Monday.
 
Funny how that works. DM's lyrics show how egotistical he is, but MS's lyrics are just a rap song, means nothing.

DM has his tattoo'd forever engrained as a reminder, maybe if MS had a tattoo that said "Merk" I might have a different opinion of the rap song meant something.
 
All My own opinion:

Today was a fine example, and a reminder, of what good legal representation is, and what the law is all about.

Yes. The crown so far has a decent case. It isn't bullet proof, and a lot of the testimony presented is full of holes and lies, and people protecting their own interests (CN and her later trial). We know, regardless of MS' testimony on the stand, that TB died at the hands of DM and MS. Maybe one, maybe both of them committed the crime. Only the two defendants know the truth. The bigger question, is which truth is actually factual. MS gave testimony, and some of that testimony is backed up and correlated by physical evidence (video footage, lack of GSR in yukon, etc). There are some flaws with his story, but not critical, and after cross examination, the crown didnt come forward with evidence or witness which disproved his testimony. DM has provided no testimony, and we were subjected to the poor ability of his legal councel in cross examination, and his rambling and suggestion of what DM claims happened. Unfortunately, his ramblings didn't help his or DM's appearance of supposed innocence, and the theories made even less sense, with little previously entered physical evidence backing up DM's scenarios.

I've read a few opinions on this thread, and I do not agree largely with those that just want to watch someone fry - not justice, but vengeance. I am a firm beleiver in the justice system, and the conviction has to fit the crime. Yes, TB died and it was horrible. But before we completely remove someones freedom and strip them of some of their charter rights, the very charter rights that soliders die for, and ever Canadian takes for granted, we MUST be sure we convict the correct person, for the correct time, and that they serve the correct sentence. I don't care of MS or DM are sleazy, manipulating, or what ever I think of them. One of them pulled the trigger, and we have to be damn sure which one planned that murder before we slam them away for 70+ years.

Today was a good example of the legal system at work. It established that only one person could have commited Murder in the first degree, and that the other committed second degree, at worst. Dungey did a good job showing that it was possible that it was actually a murder in the second commited by DM, and that MS was accessory after the fact.

At this time, I'm inclined to think that DM commited First or Second degree (mountain against him), and that MS was accessory after the fact (no GSR in yukon, video footage backs his story better than DM's story, etc), after my taking into consideration the facts of the case, the testimony given, and evidence entered. I do not pay attention to stories, speculation and theories in a court room. They don't belong there.

Tomorrow the crown has their turn. My opinion might change, again.

All my own thoughts and opinion.

Agree completely, definitely the exact message I've been trying to convey, in a less eloquent way lol
Thank you for this
 
The matter of who shot TB will never be known in my opinion. It's not like we're going to be able to figure it out from clues. Some important elements of the crime will remain unknown, like the time DM and MS entered and left the field, the route they took on the test drive, how many sightings of TB's truck and the Yukon were passing at SuperSucker - and when was TB killed, where and by whom, who put TB in the incinerator - one or both of the accused, etc. etc.

The missing puzzle pieces can't really ever be discovered. It's too late. We just have to choose to believe the most credible story to arrive at a conclusion. The puzzle is incomplete, but with each of the three versions presented, we can see most of the picture, so now it's time to make a choice within the limitations of what we know and what we never will.

Even if DM had taken the stand and directly told his version of the truth, what would that change? We'd still have three disparate versions of what happened to TB and why, and what happened after his murder and why. The time for speculating about all the possibilities is done IMO because it won't change the outcome of the trial. Whatever the jury decides will be the best indicator of a truth that most closely resembles the actual truth. It's the best we can hope for IMO, and as hard as that may be to accept, we'll have no other choice but to accept that a lot of mystery surrounding this terrible crime will linger on.

All MOO.

Putting the cart before the horse and have the TB trial before the WM trial/LB trial, there can't be the outcome the accused would have really deserved, I think. IF some evil mystery will clarify during the next trials it will be too late - for justice and for Sharlene with her family. SB has to continue to be very strong; not much relief in sight, I fear. I'm very sorry for her and her family. :grouphug:
 
All My own opinion:

Today was a fine example, and a reminder, of what good legal representation is, and what the law is all about.

Yes. The crown so far has a decent case. It isn't bullet proof, and a lot of the testimony presented is full of holes and lies, and people protecting their own interests (CN and her later trial). We know, regardless of MS' testimony on the stand, that TB died at the hands of DM and MS. Maybe one, maybe both of them committed the crime. Only the two defendants know the truth. The bigger question, is which truth is actually factual. MS gave testimony, and some of that testimony is backed up and correlated by physical evidence (video footage, lack of GSR in yukon, etc). There are some flaws with his story, but not critical, and after cross examination, the crown didnt come forward with evidence or witness which disproved his testimony. DM has provided no testimony, and we were subjected to the poor ability of his legal councel in cross examination, and his rambling and suggestion of what DM claims happened. Unfortunately, his ramblings didn't help his or DM's appearance of supposed innocence, and the theories made even less sense, with little previously entered physical evidence backing up DM's scenarios.

I've read a few opinions on this thread, and I do not agree largely with those that just want to watch someone fry - not justice, but vengeance. I am a firm beleiver in the justice system, and the conviction has to fit the crime. Yes, TB died and it was horrible. But before we completely remove someones freedom and strip them of some of their charter rights, the very charter rights that soliders die for, and ever Canadian takes for granted, we MUST be sure we convict the correct person, for the correct time, and that they serve the correct sentence. I don't care of MS or DM are sleazy, manipulating, or what ever I think of them. One of them pulled the trigger, and we have to be damn sure which one planned that murder before we slam them away for 70+ years.

Today was a good example of the legal system at work. It established that only one person could have commited Murder in the first degree, and that the other committed second degree, at worst. Dungey did a good job showing that it was possible that it was actually a murder in the second commited by DM, and that MS was accessory after the fact.

At this time, I'm inclined to think that DM commited First or Second degree (mountain against him), and that MS was accessory after the fact (no GSR in yukon, video footage backs his story better than DM's story, etc), after my taking into consideration the facts of the case, the testimony given, and evidence entered. I do not pay attention to stories, speculation and theories in a court room. They don't belong there.

Tomorrow the crown has their turn. My opinion might change, again.

All my own thoughts and opinion.

All excellent, well-stated points.

I am curious to know what your opinion is regarding all the contextual text messages evidence in conjunction with the purchase of the gun, the purchase of the livestock incinerator, and other evidence, whether or not you believe there is a possibility that this shows DM and MS are complicit in planning a murder?


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I could be wrong but I thought most vehicles with GPS had an anti theft sticker on the side windows indicating this. If the vehicle is equipped with anti theft features, why hide that fact from a potential thief? I assumed that one of MS's "tasks" was to check for this? Or, as has been said, you could just ask the owner when inquiring about features either over the phone or in person.

So for me, if they were going to be "scoping" anything, it would be the location that their target truck is stored at. Does the house have a camera? What about neighboring homes/businesses? How many adults live there and would everyone be sleeping at the same time? What are their habits? How about the neighbours and their habits? Where do they keep the truck? Is it left in the open or stored in a garage? Where do they keep the keys? Rather than calling on the way down the driveway, you'd be wiser to knock on the door and perhaps see where the owner grabs the keys from.

There are lots of ways to scope to steal a vehicle. Doesn't sound like either of these two criminals were interested in any of them. They had a different plan altogether that did not require stealing just a vehicle from a quiet rural home.

Yes Kamille, I agree entirely.
There is one more thing a crook should check out and that is----
How well fed do the owners keep there pit bulls.
 
Why is there a general assumption that when a gun is pulled out, a struggle ensues? The whole point of guns is to avoid this. A little guy can kill a big guy without even touching him. Aren't struggles over guns the thing of movies?
If those guys wanted Igors truck by shooting, what was stopping them? And, what was wrong with Igors truck that they didn't return to take it, as they are pretending the plan was? Why drive all the way to Ancaster with that roll of tape? I wish the crown had asked what that tape was used for. There seems to be more evidence that MS was there to confine the victim than kill him.
 
DM has his tattoo'd forever engrained as a reminder, maybe if MS had a tattoo that said "Merk" I might have a different opinion of the rap song meant something.

I was actually referring to Dungey's argument and the contradiction, or hypocrisy, in it. But then, I also can't really compare lyrics about someone who is hurt and angry about being cheated on to lyrics about using a .380 to take your anger out on someone. They're miles apart IMO, but that's just me.
 
Originally Posted by billandrew View Post
If my recent browsing history ever gets reviewed then I'm not so sure....

Dodge Ram 3500
GPS in Dodge Ram 3500
Removing GPS
Cell phone location tracking in Canada
How to avoid cell phone tracking
How to permanently erase cell phone data
Walther PPK .380
Ammo for Walther PPK 380
Where to buy Walther PPK in Canada
Smuggling guns into Canada
The Eliminator incinerator
Animal incinerator
Fuel for incinerator
Do bones turn to ash when burned
How to destroy bones
First degree murder in Canada
How to clean up evidence in a murder
How to defend first degree murder charges
Ahahahahahahaha!! Well, you will have all of us to support the true reasons for your searches ... We will be there for you!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Billandrew, I will even lie for you! Tell me how to change my testimony and I will be your most important witness (if needed: wearing red high heels in court)! :D
 
I was actually referring to Dungey's argument and the contradiction, or hypocrisy, in it. But then, I also can't really compare lyrics about someone who is hurt and angry about being cheated on to lyrics about using a .380 to take your anger out on someone. They're miles apart IMO, but that's just me.
Oh the irony of the thought of poor Dell being cheated on. Lol

The song title is interesting to me,"ok I believe you but my tommy gun don't", as is this line.

"I think in decimals and dollars.
I am the cause to all your problems"

I'm not one to think any kind of music truly plays into this. The song was just a matter of interest. For me anyways. JMO
 
"
I wonder if DM will have the same council for the LB and WM cases. I could see him throwing a tantrum if he is convicted in Tim's murder and that seems likely. I know in the letters he alluded to representing himself in those cases. After this he probably thinks he can do a better job when in reality this should show him even the best lawyers have trouble.

MS would be smart to keep Dungey for the LB case but who knows.
"

Does anyone know who is paying the lawyer bills on this trial?
Lawyers of this quality do not come cheap.
If it's legal aid then that would be us. ouch!!!!!!!
 
Canadiangirl, I know you have already deleted the band's name. :)



"Okay I Believe You, But My Tommy Gun Don't"

Brand New - Punk rock band
Thanks. Turned out it was uploaded onto YouTube by a user with that name.
 
All My own opinion:

Today was a fine example, and a reminder, of what good legal representation is, and what the law is all about.

Yes. The crown so far has a decent case. It isn't bullet proof, and a lot of the testimony presented is full of holes and lies, and people protecting their own interests (CN and her later trial). We know, regardless of MS' testimony on the stand, that TB died at the hands of DM and MS. Maybe one, maybe both of them committed the crime. Only the two defendants know the truth. The bigger question, is which truth is actually factual. MS gave testimony, and some of that testimony is backed up and correlated by physical evidence (video footage, lack of GSR in yukon, etc). There are some flaws with his story, but not critical, and after cross examination, the crown didnt come forward with evidence or witness which disproved his testimony. DM has provided no testimony, and we were subjected to the poor ability of his legal councel in cross examination, and his rambling and suggestion of what DM claims happened. Unfortunately, his ramblings didn't help his or DM's appearance of supposed innocence, and the theories made even less sense, with little previously entered physical evidence backing up DM's scenarios.

I've read a few opinions on this thread, and I do not agree largely with those that just want to watch someone fry - not justice, but vengeance. I am a firm beleiver in the justice system, and the conviction has to fit the crime. Yes, TB died and it was horrible. But before we completely remove someones freedom and strip them of some of their charter rights, the very charter rights that soliders die for, and ever Canadian takes for granted, we MUST be sure we convict the correct person, for the correct time, and that they serve the correct sentence. I don't care of MS or DM are sleazy, manipulating, or what ever I think of them. One of them pulled the trigger, and we have to be damn sure which one planned that murder before we slam them away for 70+ years.

Today was a good example of the legal system at work. It established that only one person could have commited Murder in the first degree, and that the other committed second degree, at worst. Dungey did a good job showing that it was possible that it was actually a murder in the second commited by DM, and that MS was accessory after the fact.

At this time, I'm inclined to think that DM commited First or Second degree (mountain against him), and that MS was accessory after the fact (no GSR in yukon, video footage backs his story better than DM's story, etc), after my taking into consideration the facts of the case, the testimony given, and evidence entered. I do not pay attention to stories, speculation and theories in a court room. They don't belong there.

Tomorrow the crown has their turn. My opinion might change, again.

All my own thoughts and opinion.

My post here is not directly toward the OP, but to everyone. Just wondering.... it has been said that if the jury finds that one of the accuseds is not guilty of murder or manslaughter, but is believed to be guilty of accessory after the fact to murder, the verdict must be 'not guilty', because AATF is not an included offence to what they have already been charged with?... so then what happens to such an accused.. do they then get charged with AATF and have another trial to prove that? Or do they just simply walk away without a sentence? I am only going by a post yesterday from AP, who has been notorious for tweeting and reporting on the radio incorrect information at various points throughout the trial. I was unable to find anything to support or not support her comment.. and I can't even find it right now to quote it.
 
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