Bosma Murder Trial 06.1.16 - Day 57 - Closing Arguments Day 2

[NoodlesMcgee]

Dungey tripping up with the MM testimony. Illogical to tell the jury to believe everything she says EXCEPT the part that looks bad for my client (the celebratory mood when they picked her up)

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I thought he was also charged with communicating with MM while in jail as she was on his DNC list. Not sure why he was charged and DM wasn't though.

That was never mentioned. It was the contact with Arthur.

 

[meterclicks]

I thought he was also charged with communicating with MM while in jail as she was on his DNC list. Not sure why he was charged and DM wasn't though.

It makes no sense that DM wasn't or that CN wasn't - claiming to not know is just ignorance.

And why none of these other parties (DM's bandits + Mommy Dearest) haven't been charged with anything is incredulous.

 

[puppyraiser]

Dungey clarified this issue when MS took the stand in his opening statement. There was never any mention it was this case, and the confusion came from assumptions made because it was in the media after he was arrested for TB's murder.

MOO

Thanks. Thought I was up to speed with all this stuff... guess not. :shame:

 

[puppyraiser]

It makes no sense that DM wasn't or that CN wasn't - claiming to not know is just ignorance.

And why none of these other parties (DM's bandits + Mommy Dearest) haven't been charged with anything is incredulous.

I don't get it either. These people admit to previous criminal activity while on the stand. They lied multiple times to police during the initial investigation and not one charge against any of them. Why make an example of CN and not any of the others. She didn't ever speak to police so therefore she's charged but all the others lied over and over and over, wasting time and resources.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I'm not a lawyer and these lawyers obviously know what works in closing arguments better than me, but I wouldn't be bringing up others having incentive to lie on the stand to avoid charges as to why we can't trust their testimony after your own client was just up on the stand. No one had more incentive to lie on the stand than MS, so I'd avoid bringing that up.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Dungey tripping up with the MM testimony. Illogical to tell the jury to believe everything she says EXCEPT the part that looks bad for my client (the celebratory mood when they picked her up)

I believe he was pointing out that "celebrating" was not what she said in her original statement. She initially said DM seemed happy, but on the stand said they were both celebrating and sort of bopping up and down in their seats. That was not in her original statement, IIRC.

 

[andreww]

I'm not a lawyer and these lawyers obviously know what works in closing arguments better than me, but I wouldn't be bringing up others having incentive to lie on the stand to avoid charges as to why we can't trust their testimony after your own client was just up on the stand. No one had more incentive to lie on the stand than MS, so I'd avoid bringing that up.

Yes but its not up to Smich to prove his innocence, its up to the crown to prove his guilt. Dungey is right, most of the people from Millard's crew did lie and it was quite evident. He knows his clients story is decent, but things like Smich telling AM to "bring those "things" to me" are what may do him in. Casting doubt on the people that introduced those pieces of evidence is crucial.

 

[Dutchman]

"If you killed him in the Bullman field, no one's there, no one could see," Dungey says. Why not position the body then?
by Adam Carter 10:31 AM

"You don't stop right on the side of the road to reposition the body," Dungey says. "It's illogical."
by Adam Carter 10:32 AM

Dungey again says there's no evidence to support that theory. "This case has to be decided on evidence and evidence only."
by Adam Carter 10:33 AM

This still makes the most sense to me, even though there is no evidence found. The bobcat place, is where they thought about phones, their phones, Tim's phone.

 

[JuneBug67]

This still makes the most sense to me, even though there is no evidence found. The bobcat place, is where they thought about phones, their phones, Tim's phone.

Not sure about this. Both the Bate and Smich phone went down almost 30 minutes previously while still in, or close to, Ancaster. Millard's phone never went off.

 

[ADAWG]

Isn't Smitch actually charged with breaching the order not to communicate with someone on his do not contact list? Where is the evidence of that? I'd love to see what he wrote to Marlena!

Maybe this has been answered already he never violated on the charge. He was charged with contacting Arthur on the graffiti charge. Arthur and Smich had a no contact order as well. He was not charged with contacting MM.

 

[Errrr]

Of everything that has been presented, this is where I get stuck, but the Crown is adamant that this is where it happened. I wonder if they will elaborate or make a further point on this in their closing submission?

I don't think the Crown was adamant. They were probably trying to counter MSs allegation that he left the truck within a minute of climbing in and thus couldn't have had anything to do with whatever happened later. By putting forth this scenario there is potential to get the defendant to give up some damning detail.

 

[mimimic]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
"He couldn't put this before you, because it's out there," says Dungey, holding copy of letter in air. "A completely devious mind."

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 59s59 seconds ago
"So he puts another scenario together and presents it through his counsel. That's the devious mind we're dealing with here," Dungey says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 51s51 seconds ago
He says this was out there, if was in disclosure, so Millard couldn't give this as his scenario. So he thought up another. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 54s54 seconds ago
Letter is also important because he's telling Noudga to give the info to Andrew Michalski "so he will support this scenario."

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 39s39 seconds ago
Millard is telling his girlfriend to give the information to Andrew Michalski to use, saying Millard was not there during murder. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 46s46 seconds ago
Millard wrote that he wasn't even there. Which we now know is a lie. Millard concedes he was there.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 29s29 seconds ago
This letter, Dungey says, shows "the depths of his demonic mind." #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 10s10 seconds ago
Dungey thanking God for Noudga's arrest and "investigative work of @HamiltonPolice" otherwise an innocent man would be framed for mruder.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3s3 seconds ago
"The depths of his demonic mind! Dungey says. Thank god the letters weren't destroyed. Thank god for investigative work of @HamiltonPolice"

Mark CarcasoleVerified account ‏@MarkCarcGlobal 47s47 seconds ago
"The depth of this demonic mind...The injustice that could've been done if Christina Noudga hadn't been arrested," shouts Dungey. #Bosma

This seems to be worded more clearly, if anyone else was like me about that line in the letter.

 

[sab_bri]

Dungey says Millard doesn't take charge in this scenario, even if he was innocent. Doesn't call police, doesn't get great lawyers.
by Adam Carter 11:28 AM


:happydance:Hehehehe ZING

No matter which of the 2 defense scenarios you look at - and neither of them called police or took off. IMO BOTH of them participated willingly, they were in it together from beginning until end. That was until they got arrested... I hope the Jury sees through the smoke and mirrors...

 

[sab_bri]

He didn't expect to get caught. Once police visited, he became worried and started thinking more about a scapegoat IMO.I can't get over the fact that both defences are predicated on 'no one could be this stupid'. It is quite obvious that criminals can be this stupid!!

I hope the Crown mentions this.. I agreee 10000% They didn't think they would be caught. If not for Arthur Jennings, they might have just gotten away with it.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Except for the "goes well , be an all-nighter."

But that was DM to CN. Not MS that said that.

 

[JuneBug67]

I hope the Crown mentions this.. I agreee 10000% They didn't think they would be caught. If not for Arthur Jennings, they might have just gotten away with it.

He got arrested when he did in spite of Arthur Jennings, who only acknowledged the location of the truck after police were there. I credit him absolutely for being invested enough in human decency to have called in the VIN, but after that he faltered for bit. In the end of course, he's done the right thing. And at some cost to his family relationships it seems. One really could conclude that Shane is a bit of an amoral *******.

 

[andreww]

He got arrested when he did in spite of Arthur Jennings, who only acknowledged the location of the truck after police were there. I credit him absolutely for being invested enough in human decency to have called in the VIN, but after that he faltered for bit. In the end of course, he's done the right thing. And at some cost to his family relationships it seems. One really could conclude that Shane is a bit of an amoral *******.

The luckiest thing that ever happened to Arthur Jennings was IT recognizing that tattoo. Something tells me calling CS reserved a one way ticket to see the Eliminator up close and personal. If Millard wasn't caught there is no way he was going to live life with that ticking time bomb walking around.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Never seen 5 foot high grass in my life so I'm assuming thats an exaggeration?

The hay fields get pretty tall but not 5ft in the first week of May. Hay farmers around me are just starting their first cut now.

 

[sab_bri]

He got arrested when he did in spite of Arthur Jennings, who only acknowledged the location of the truck after police were there. I credit him absolutely for being invested enough in human decency to have called in the VIN, but after that he faltered for bit. In the end of course, he's done the right thing. And at some cost to his family relationships it seems. One really could conclude that Shane is a bit of an amoral *******.

Did the Police visit the hanger prior to AJ calling crime stoppers? I thought it was the other way around.. I believe DM had enough time to move Tims truck out of there before the police arrived.