Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #17 [06.03.16 to 06.09.16]

[CJPRINCESS]

SB's testimony:



Crown's opening address, referring to IT's description:




http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6260487-bosma-trial-hears-one-friendly-man-one-reclusive-showed-up-for-test-drive/

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

Ok, I only read AC'S blog. SC seems to be more detailed.

 

[Errrr]

I should have been more clear. I wasn't referring specifically to your post, but rather the theme, which has been put forward on multiple occasions by multiple posters.

That theme seems to have become noticeably quieter since the crown closed.

 

[Typhoo1961]

SB wasn't sure if it was long sleeve or short IIRC and the video you sure can't tell. (or I can't). Regardless can a holster not be worn under one's clothing?

It looked like a long sleeved shirt to me.

 

[Errrr]

How was he hiding the holster? He wore a golf shirt and jeans.

I don't really care since I am of the opinion that TB wasn't in a state to care if the gun was visible and lying on the seat next to him.

 

[canadiangirl]

It looked like a long sleeved shirt to me.

It looked like a button up to me

 

[hellkat2]

1) If murder was the plan, DM would have to think that he could do it all alone - take control of TB, shoot him and drive all at the same time - with no assistance, then MS could have been that lost friend and stayed away from the house in the Yukon. There would have been no reason for both of them to go on the actual test drive. It makes no sense for them to walk up together if DM was just going to drop MS off as soon as they left the driveway. Even if murder wasn't the plan, it still makes no sense to drop MS off immediately. Just another reason why MS's story is not believable.

2) If they had been allowed to take the test drive alone, which would be unlikely without leaving some assurance behind but if that did happen, I think they would have just driven away. But then, I'm not convinced that murder was the plan.

I concur with all that you say however I keep going back to the fact that they took a loaded gun or guns with them on the test drive. The probability of a thief bringing a loaded weapon frivolously to a "scoping mission" is something that is unlikely. I have read that thieves avoid carrying a gun or weapon of any kind as they do not want to do the time in prison that a loaded weapon involves if they are caught. I do not believe that DM and MS are green to this concept. It is pretty standard stuff.

 

[Alethea Dice]

The fact that Millard doesn't say "why the hell did you call Isho?" indicates that at some point prior they had discussed it. Smich is telling Millard that he'd made contact, a status report if you will.

And you can't make a dirty gun clean. Truly, is there any such thing as a "clean" gun in Canada? Clean means that you can get stopped and your gun will check out in the US, in Canada that aint going to happen. Carrying any Isho purchased gun is a felony.

I don't think that indicates they had discussed it at some point, especially prior to the text. DM also didn't say "why don't you get a hold of Isho". We have no way of knowing what they discussed or when. I just think it's a pretty broad assumption to say that they both wanted MS to contact him about the gun, which is what the OP stated. There is only the one text from MS that refers to contacting Isho and he is not telling DM that he made contact, only that he was going to contact him that day and that DM should check with him soon too. DM was busy in an accounting meeting most of the morning, so it is possible that this was an MS idea.

I honestly don't think that is quite what these people mean by a gun being "clean". So yes, once a gun is dirty, there is no way to miraculously make it clean ever again.

All JMO

 

[Variant]

Not really. Not sure how he'd carry a gun other than in a satchel. If he was going to conceal it given what he was wearing, he'd need a jacket.

Not necessarily. DM bought one of these inside-the-waistband holsters from ebay.

(picture from the listing, described as fitting small and pocket size 380 semi-autos).

From a web site on how to conceal a gun is this description and picture of a guy wearing a gun under a shirt:

"Just a plain white dress shirt is plenty of concealment if you’ve got an inside-the-waistband holster. Wear any sort of collared or uncollared shirt loose and untucked and you’ve got enough concealment to hide the grip of a handgun from casual observation."



The untucked clothing DM wore in the hangar walk video looks like it had lots of room to conceal a gun by this method.

 

[hellkat2]

Here is the article/photos from ABro's website regarding the purchase of two holsters by Millard, however, I am unable to see the date(s) of purchase. I am pretty sure Ann must know, though, because she has details of his purchase history mentioned in the story and I am sure she would have taken note of the purchase dates.

ABro posted it to her site in September, 2013.


http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...ade-ebay-purchases-from-u-s-holster-firm.html



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Thanks for this.. Never saw it before.

 

[canadiangirl]

I'm going to read the AB website about the holster purchase because it was a hot topic this weekend. I read all the posts but wasn't able to really think about it. Is it an shoulder/armpit holster or a belt/waist holster we're talking about?

I don't see this as being a good possibility (that DM was carrying the gun in the holster that night), though, that's my ignorant opinion until I read up on it.

JMO.

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Although I'm sure it's a possibility that DM could've worn a holster but it was pure speculation as it was never confirmed it was DM's eBay account and never brought up at trial.

 

[hellkat2]

DM was definitely wearing that satchel in the hangar video in the early morning hours of May 7, which was entered into evidence, so without a doubt he brought it with him that night, and could very well have worn it to the Bosmas, although there is no evidence of that at that particular time.

Just because SB and WDB couldn't recall seeing DM with it, it doesn't mean he wasn't wearing it then. The majority of people don't see/remember every detail about a person or what they're wearing, and hence eye witness accounts are not always factual, even though the eye witness is telling the truth of what they truly believed they saw.

Combine that with the fact that he washed it in the washing machine, when he and MS were rushing all over getting rid of evidence. I doubt he would have stopped to wash his satchel if it DIDN'T have incrimating potential. Why bother with such a trivial thing iunless it was a necessary thing? Also, IIRC, blood was found on the satchel, but not enough for testing purposes.

MOO


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A man who wears a man purse aka murse is making a statement. Most men would take note of another man who would be wearing one.

 

[hellkat2]

For LE and the Crown to suggest that the gun could hold the clue to the killer's identity only shows that the person whose prints were on the gun would be the one they say was the shooter. An absence of prints cannot exonerate anyone, one set of prints cannot prove who the shooter was, and two sets of prints cannot prove who the shooter was. moo

Maybe MS stenciled say10 onto his.

 

[Variant]

Although I'm sure it's a possibility that DM could've worn a holster but it was pure speculation as it was never confirmed it was DM's eBay account and never brought up at trial.

But no more speculative than proposing that MS was carrying a gun in his hoodie.

 

[canadiangirl]

But no more speculative than proposing that MS was carrying a gun in his hoodie.

Oh I agree completely. That's another "theory" that seems to be floating.

 

[hellkat2]

I think you and I have totally opposite opinions of what type of people Millard and Smich really were. You think they were bad, I thing they were both depraved psychopaths living in a real life game of Grand Theft Auto. I certainly do believe these guys were bouncing in their seats. IMO the texts show how giddy these guys were about performing this mission. We look at it now thinking how badly it went and ask why they should be celebrating, but at the time I think they actually believed that things went perfectly according to plan. These guys knew they were going to shoot TB, and they knew they were going to incinerate him by the next morning. This wasn't a shock to them. They were looking forward to it, they carried it out, and now they were celebrating their bounty.

Michalski via text told Dellen M to watch gone in 60 seconds. So I don't think it is a leap what you are saying with regard to playing a real life game of it. I have not watched either movie so don't know if they murdered and burned people.Cripes they have Grand Theft Auto on play station so I hope not. Would be kind of....sick....if so.

 

[hellkat2]

Not really. Not sure how he'd carry a gun other than in a satchel. If he was going to conceal it given what he was wearing, he'd need a jacket.

Not necessarily. DM bought one of these inside-the-waistband holsters from ebay.

View attachment 96178 (picture from the listing, described as fitting small and pocket size 380 semi-autos).

From a web site on how to conceal a gun is this description and picture of a guy wearing a gun under a shirt:

"Just a plain white dress shirt is plenty of concealment if you’ve got an inside-the-waistband holster. Wear any sort of collared or uncollared shirt loose and untucked and you’ve got enough concealment to hide the grip of a handgun from casual observation."

View attachment 96179

The untucked clothing DM wore in the hangar walk video looks like it had lots of room to conceal a gun by this method.

Thanks for this. Very good point.

 

[hellkat2]

Your comment, combined with a comment in ABro's blog, and a remark made by a friend of mine who is a retired police chief detective, is fanning the spark of a thought in my mind. Professional, criminal gang members do care if a gun is clean. It's the amateur gastas who don't care, and who behave dangerously.

According to the police detective, guns can be rented or leased from illegal sources, for a fee, plus a deposit which is refunded when the gun is returned. The guns are clean. If the gun is used in a crime, it can't be returned but must be destroyed. I don't know all the details of such a transaction, but you can bet that care is taken so that the gun can't be traced to the supplier.

The comment from ABro's blog is related to this: "[Joseph Michael Horth aka Spiken Mike] ... testified at the prelim that a guy called John Low had given him the AK-47 as collateral for a small loan and that he had tried to destroy it with a hammer. When that failed he hid it in the crawl space under the house where he was living in Mississauga. Police raided the house and found the gun in January 2014." From the article: Crown asks for review of Justice Antonio Di Zio ruling in Matthew Ward-Jackson case http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/matthew-ward-jackson

"Collateral for a small loan?" Does that sound like a deposit?

There are a few questions that linger in my mind. What did MS mean when he said that he'd f'd up? To whom was he referring when he said that he was afraid "they were out to get him", or "they don't don't mess around". I forget his exact wording. Surely he was not afraid of the Bosma family. Why was MS in such a state about getting rid of the gun? Why did he so stubbornly refuse to say where it is? Is it possible that the gun was rented and now, having been used in a crime, had to be paid for and destroyed? When MS needed money so desperately, was it really in order to hire a lawyer?

Lots of information that I find very interesting considering how MS was bent on getting rid of that gun and thinking he was being set up and people were after him. He may well be and still is worried about the gun issue. He in my opinion was unbelievable when he said he could not remember where he buried it. I am not sure if the incinerator would melt a gun....it was mentioned that it melted metal by CN in testimony. I wonder if he threw it in the incinerator?

 

[canadiangirl]

Maybe MS stenciled say10 onto his.

And what would Millard’s stencil be?

 

[Errrr]

Lots of information that I find very interesting considering how MS was bent on getting rid of that gun and thinking he was being set up and people were after him. He may well be and still is worried about the gun issue. He in my opinion was unbelievable when he said he could not remember where he buried it. I am not sure if the incinerator would melt a gun....it was mentioned that it melted metal by CN in testimony. I wonder if he threw it in the incinerator?

LOL.....a portable steel smelter!

 

[Maple1]

It is unfortunate if it was a mistweet on SC's part, that she didn't later correct it and note her error. I agree that it is definitely possible, and even probable that DM also had his satchel at the B residence. The only evidence provided in court was that DM did have it with him.

Is is possible for someone with a twitter account to ask SC if that was an error in her tweet?

This from SC Tweet from previous WB That someone had pasted in: I cannot tweet but I just sent SC a email to see if she will confirm her tweet.
I Said it was from Pilay closing.
"Millard was not trying to conceal his identity. He used a satchel at Bosma residence, pulled out satchel in front of police later."

I will update this if I hear from SC.