Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #17 [06.03.16 to 06.09.16]

[Sillybilly]

This forum is dedicated to Tim's case. Let's not veer off into other cases, capital punishment, gun registry, etc.

:tyou:

 

[DMB]

You are not looking at the whole picture. Yes Millard wanted the truck and yes it was his mission, but think back to this one text, and I'm paraphrasing here...

"First things first, I need a truck and you need a base"

To me that text suggest that Millard is offering to take the material possessions like the truck in exchange for necessities like housing (riverside condo), transportation (Caddy) as well as providing cigarettes, booze and food to Smich. If Millard isn't a partner, why is he offering these things to Smich?


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Who said he was offering these things in exchange for murder???? Once again, AM already has been given the "base" and multiple trips, SS the cushy job and he made the incinerator, how many unsolved murders are out there?????

 

[teamsundin]

MS couldn't say, didn't remember. I can't remember but it wasn't very long. TB pulled truck out of garage, quick walk about and they left.

It was late so unlikely TB would have wanted to waste any more time.


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[DMB]

I hate to be too literal with the facts, but I have a question if anyone knows. Did we ever hear any testimony about whose idea any of the missions (other than the truck) were? I mean other than that DM called people for lookouts and planned how to carry out the missions, has anyone ever made any suggestions as to whose idea it originally was that a particular item might be a good thing to steal? Who may have seen these things somewhere and said 'hey let's see if we can steal that'? It seems like most of the missions were for kicks, to see if they could get away with it, more so than that any of the items were actually needed.

DM's the only one with a fully operational chop shop and personal mechanic. There had to have been a heck of a lot more "missions" to warrant paying SS his full time salary. We have heard testimony on only a few as this is a murder case and not a theft or drug related charge. For some of the players it may have appeared to be for kicks but for others it was a full time job. Who profited???? DM

 

[Sillybilly]

Who said he was offering these things in exchange for murder???? Once again, AM already has been given the "base" and multiple trips, SS the cushy job and he made the incinerator, how many unsolved murders are out there?????

The actual text from May 2012, line 3270 of AC's tweets, is "Lets get to work, got some empires to build. Part a) getting you a base and me a Dodge 3500." Nothing about any exchange for goods/services.

There doesn't appear to have been a Part b)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...U/htmlview?usp=sharing&pref=2&pli=1&sle=true#

 

[Oreck]

It is circumstantial of course, you could say none of the cars are it, perhaps one, or all three. But when you combine this with the testimony of the neighbour walking his dog giving a timeframe of 915-930 those timestamps work and that's just too many coincidences for me to believe especially when this all occurred in a very rural area at night on a weekday. And I also think the driver being the shooter is way too difficult to pull off and just doesn't make sense to me. So I'm not relying entirely on that video but it certainly ties it all in.

I have owned a number of handguns. tmtm. All sizes. The 380 a small to medlin little pop-gun. I think the driver, in this case, could easily have been the shooter, but not very good at it. How else do you explain him shooting out the side window.
If you want to hit what your aiming at, just point your index finger at it and use your middle finger on the trigger.

No doubt in my mind about guilt.
The premeditated part, for me, is in the ordering, (MS's input) and buying of their Bar-B-Que. moo.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

DM's the only one with a fully operational chop shop and personal mechanic. There had to have been a heck of a lot more "missions" to warrant paying SS his full time salary. We have heard testimony on only a few as this is a murder case and not a theft or drug related charge. For some of the players it may have appeared to be for kicks but for others it was a full time job. Who profited???? DM

It was also MS's source of income.

 

[teamsundin]

I have owned a number of handguns. All sizes. The 380 a small to medlin little pop-gun. I think the driver, in this case, could easily have been the shooter, but not very good at it. How else do you explain him shooting out the side window.
If you want to hit what your aiming at, just point your index finger at it and use your middle finger on the trigger.

No doubt in my mind about guilt.
The premeditated part, for me, is in the ordering, (MS's input) and buying of their Bar-B-Que. moo.

Smich could have moved to the middle easily and shot towards the passenger side. Millard would have to shoot while driving or while at an intersection where there might be witnesses. From Trinity road the first stop or intersection is Wilson street so if he suddenly stops for no reason before then bosma will take notice. Any one of those scenarios is pretty risky... Much less risky than having the guy in the back do it. Just doesn't appear a logical choice for the driver to be the shooter when better options are available. Not like smich doesn't know his way around a gun

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[MsSherlock]

Between the love texting and the man purses and wanting to build houses together on the farm....it is twisted.

And don't forget MM testified that MS "loved" DM. A regular little "bromance". They may have looked differently on the outside, but they were certainly in sync on the inside. I wonder if the love birds will get much sleep tonight? MOO

 

[canadiangirl]

I have owned a number of handguns. tmtm. All sizes. The 380 a small to medlin little pop-gun. I think the driver, in this case, could easily have been the shooter, but not very good at it. How else do you explain him shooting out the side window.
If you want to hit what your aiming at, just point your index finger at it and use your middle finger on the trigger.

No doubt in my mind about guilt.
The premeditated part, for me, is in the ordering, (MS's input) and buying of their Bar-B-Que. moo.

Except MS didn't order or buy the BBQ. Nor did he do the test burn. The dear mechanic was more then happy to oblige

 

[canadiangirl]

It was also MS's source of income.

I was under the impression MS source of income was selling drugs.

 

[Errrr]

Smich could have moved to the middle easily and shot towards the passenger side. Millard would have to shoot while driving or while at an intersection where there might be witnesses. From Trinity road the first stop or intersection is Wilson street so if he suddenly stops for no reason before then bosma will take notice. Any one of those scenarios is pretty risky... Much less risky than having the guy in the back do it. Just doesn't appear a logical choice for the driver to be the shooter when better options are available. Not like smich doesn't know his way around a gun

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Sooo complicated. What was the tape for?

 

[Miranda16]

Does anyone know:
a) whether the accused will be present during judge's instructions (I guess so because they have the right to hear how they will be judged by the jury)?
b) where the accused will be during deliberations? Do they stay in the court house somewhere until the jury has reached a decision? So if it takes days the accused will be sitting somewhere in seperate rooms with their lawyers and police guard just waiting?

Thanks!

 

[teamsundin]

Sooo complicated. What was the tape for?

The guy in the back shooting from the middle seat is more complicated than the driver shooting while driving?

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[Sillybilly]

Is it fair to give MS's testimony the benefit of the doubt in assessing DM's guilt, as opposed to only giving benefit of the doubt regarding his own guilt? What if the story about the fake text and MS getting out of the truck so quickly were outright lies? There are many issues which cast significant doubt on MS's story (IMO):

[...]


[*]MS said TB's truck pulled a U-turn on Book Rd and never pulled into the farmer's field. Bullman said he saw both vehicles well into the field ...

<rsbm>

With the exception of considering the fake text, my assessments of DM were NOT based on MS's version but are independent of MS's testimony.

FWIW, I can't find it anywhere in the trial tweets that Bullman testified that the vehicles were deep in the field, only that he saw the 2 vehicles leaving his father's driveway. It was in the Crown's closing argument where TL said Bullman said they were "deeper in the field"

From AC's trial tweets
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...U/htmlview?usp=sharing&pref=2&pli=1&sle=true#

Line 249
Bullman says on May 6 he saw two vehicles pull out of his father's driveway going down towards Brantford.

Line 7340 of AC's tweets
Dungey also talking about Bullman testifying that he didn't see any vehicle marks deep in the field

Line 7767 of AC's tweets
Rick Bullman also said the truck and the SUV were deeper in the field than Smich said. Leitch says they should believe Bullman

 

[XiolaBlueX]

I think I understand why you feel the way you do, but I respectfully disagree with you regarding the death penalty.

There have been hundreds and hundreds of exonerations in the last couple of decades -- so many innocent lives devastated and ruined, spending decades in prison for crimes they did not commit. A great many of those exonerated were on death row in the U.S., erroneously convicted of capital punishment.

Human beings will always make mistakes, no matter how accurate certain scientific forensic methods become, as long as human beings are creating those methods, and as long as the results are interpreted by human beings, there is good chance that mistakes will be made. There is also the possibility of corruption that deserves consideration, as well as misconduct.

Assurance of fallibility exists within the human race. Of that we can be certain. Nothing involving human beings is foolproof. Because of this, I personally would never support the death penalty's return in Canada. I believe it should be abolished everywhere on earth.

As always, MHO


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I just finished a book last night written by Michael Morton, the man in US whose wife was violently murdered. He was wrongly convicted (horrible injustices took place) served 25 YEARS, and he was eventually released early and it was proven that he had nothing to do with it. What a nightmare.
Anyhow, he mentions that even when they found the person who committed the heinous monstrosity, Michael Morton does not wish for death penalty, rather the rest of his life in prison. MM says that if they had the death penalty when he was wrongly convicted, his story would likely have a different ending. He is very much against the death penalty after what he has experienced and has involvement with the innocence project.
Not to get sidetrack with my post too much, but it's still fresh in my mind and much like what you wrote Mrs. Threadgoode

 

[marymcd]

I have owned a number of handguns. tmtm. All sizes. The 380 a small to medlin little pop-gun. I think the driver, in this case, could easily have been the shooter, but not very good at it. How else do you explain him shooting out the side window.
If you want to hit what your aiming at, just point your index finger at it and use your middle finger on the trigger.

No doubt in my mind about guilt.
The premeditated part, for me, is in the ordering, (MS's input) and buying of their Bar-B-Que. moo.

I
So is it your opinion that it would be possible that the sound of the gun shot could have gone unnoticed? Forgive me if you have answered this before, I did read a post about this and perhaps it was you.

 

[Georgeo]

Couple of pieces, seem bothersome, MS testified that DM needed a truck for Mexico, "among other things" I believe we're his words. The white van had been modified? Think in my opinion there were far more sinister missions to come. Nobody buys an incinerator to use one time.( Oh another, timbit that came out. "They used it on a deer". ) where did that fact come from. I believe it was in the crown's closing. Hoses... Let's not start that one. Lol. So many unanswered questions. Was hoping that once all the evidence was in, we would know all.

the white van being modified scares me. What were their plans? Incinerator used on a deer-why? To test it out and see results? See just how end result would be literally ashes? Everything they did was planned out. Premeditated. To ensure outcome on this mission would be what they expected. M1 for both.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

the white van being modified scares me. What were their plans? Incinerator used on a deer-why? To test it out and see results? See just how end result would be literally ashes? Everything they did was planned out. Premeditated. To ensure outcome on this mission would be what they expected. M1 for both.

Would almost guarantee it was never used on a deer. Where are these guys going to get a deer?

 

[Georgeo]

I was under the impression MS source of income was selling drugs.

Yes, that too. Nothing he did was legal. Drugs, guns, thefts, no respect for LE or any laws.