Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #17 [06.03.16 to 06.09.16]

[deugirtni]

Thank you Claroon! I just always wondered if Scotty Moose was also involved in some kind of nefarious activity, being as Millard texted Whidden to tell Scotty to stay away from him because he was hot. What reason would Scotty have to stay away from Millard because he was in trouble? It seems to me like it was a warning to Scotty, meaning that Scotty could also face some kind of trouble if caught with Millard.

If that is true, and Scotty was a mutual acquaintance of Millard and Whidden, she sure knows how to pick them, doesn't she? Wonder what is going through her mind now, knowing she slept with such a vile killer who, without a care in the world, took the life of a loving husband, father, son and brother? And possibly two other human beings as well. The world lost such a fine, decent man, and the world has been left with two vile monsters, their gifts of life intact, who couldn't give a damn about any other person's life. What can be more senseless, more unjust or sadder than that?

I wonder the same about Noudga. And both CN and LW2 were so haughty and arrogant on the stand, and seemed to have no respect/regard for the justice system or empathy for the Bosmas. It is almost as if they aren't able to comprehend the seriousness or horror or senselessness of what happened ... Much more interested in how this has effected THEM. IMO, both Whidden and Noudga display a huge disconnect from understanding the enormous tragedy that has unfolded. They must be very self-centred people, IMO.

Anyhow, I see I have gone off on a tangent here, lol. In my original post to WSer Juballee I said it was only a matter of curiosity on my part about Scotty, because she had said in her post that the media held back tweets and information about Scotty in order to create a mystery to sell more papers. Nothing important at all [emoji4]

Hope you're all enjoying a fine weekend!

As always MOO.

If the 'Scotty' that LW2 mentions is the same 'Scott Moose' as referred to by others, I got the impression that the Scotty person was DM's drug dealer.. because wasn't the envelope full of cash at DM's house, earmarked for this Scott Moose person? That would explain DM wanting 'Scotty' to stay away, because the last thing a heavy duty drug dealer would want is to be around a guy who had police crawling all over him. Maybe I have things all mixed up, who knows.

Anyway, if there was testimony in the trial in regard to this Scott Moose/Scotty person which laid it all out as to who he was and what his purpose was in this case... then why hasn't someone who was present in court for that, enlightened us? I am just curious because things in the trial are not secret. Only the legal wranglings when the jury was not present are not to be discussed. If the tweeters thought the testimony in regard to this Scotty person was so irrelevant as not to be mentioned in *any* of their respective tweets, but yet it would give up some answers to us curious sleuthers, then why not enlighten us?

 

[robynhood]

I was not hiding ...been reading the threads actively ...I just do not post as much ....It is hard I find to read what occurred recently...thanks tho and Canadiangirl....been super busy too as I am moving soon back closer to home....Robynhood..tHanks again...

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

If the 'Scotty' that LW2 mentions is the same 'Scott Moose' as referred to by others, I got the impression that the Scotty person was DM's drug dealer.. because wasn't the envelope full of cash at DM's house, earmarked for this Scott Moose person? That would explain DM wanting 'Scotty' to stay away, because the last thing a heavy duty drug dealer would want is to be around a guy who had police crawling all over him. Maybe I have things all mixed up, who knows.

Anyway, if there was testimony in the trial in regard to this Scott Moose/Scotty person which laid it all out as to who he was and what his purpose was in this case... then why hasn't someone who was present in court for that, enlightened us? I am just curious because things in the trial are not secret. Only the legal wranglings when the jury was not present are not to be discussed. If the tweeters thought the testimony in regard to this Scotty person was so irrelevant as not to be mentioned in *any* of their respective tweets, but yet it would give up some answers to us curious sleuthers, then why not enlighten us?

Thank you. That sure makes a lot of sense, Scotty being yet another drug dealer in DM's circle ... Yup, very good reason to distance himself from DM ...

And yes I remember there was an envelope at Maplegate marked Moose from which MB and CN took thousands of dollars.

I am hoping WSer Juballee will enlighten us because her posts say that she was in court the day LW2 testified. Maybe she hasn't seen our posts yet. Really curious as to why she said the tweets and media reports weren't sharing all that LW2 had testified to in court about Scotty, and that the media was somehow holding it back in order to create a mystery to encourage paper sales. In stating that, though, she also didn't enlighten us with the info she heard. I hope she will.


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[Juballee]

That is very true, but something caused MS to take ownership of the gun the moment DM was arrested. Was it something both planned during the 52 minute visit from DM? Was it DM trying to get the gun into MS's hands to frame MS? Was it MS trying to get his gun back to get rid of it?

IMO, it was the visit and what MS interpreted he could do with the gun if DM was arrested. There is something about that toolbox that both wanted its contents gone, and not just the shooter(s).

MOO

I had always been under the impression that if DM wanted MS to have the gun back, he would have given it to him during the 40 minute visit on the 9th. The fact that he later gave it to someone else, not MS, made me believe he had a reason to keep it from MS.

Just like if MS wasn't the killer, and the crown speculated that producing the weapon could allow police to tie it to the actual shooter, if DM wasn't the killer, he may have wanted to gun to go to someone who would produce it later to help prove he wasn't the shooter. If it had MS's fingerprints on it, it would explain why he was in such a hurry to get it, only to try to distance himself from it again. It shows he wanted to be in control of disposing of it, and didn't trust anyone else to have it. DM had the perfect opportunity to give it back to him, and didn't.

 

[Juballee]

DM's satchel just seemed to be a frequent part of his apparel, and I don't know that we need to figure out a special reason for him having it. IF the holster had anything to do with this crime and IF he was really seen putting a gun in his satchel, that's not inconsistent with the fact that holsters are designed for quick, easy, one-handed access to a weapon, and satchels are not. Maybe it was just easier to take out of the holster, but once used easier to put back in to the satchel, at least temporarily.

I think only MS tried to come up with a special reason for DM wearing his satchel to the Bosmas.

Unless he was wearing a button up shirt that was open enough to access the holster, there was no logical reason to wear a holster. And if that was the case, his shirt would have been open enough to be noticeable, and to make it easy to see that he was wearing a gun and holster. If the shirt was a long sleeved teeshirt, it would be impossible to smoothly pull a gun out of a holster worn underneath it, especially while driving. And it would still be noticeable under the soft material the way it naturally falls.

In short, the holster is mere speculation while the hoodie MS was wearing is factual evidence. <modsnip>

 

[canadiangirl]

I've always thought the video in the hanger looks like DM is wearing a button down. Could be my imagination though.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I had always been under the impression that if DM wanted MS to have the gun back, he would have given it to him during the 40 minute visit on the 9th. The fact that he later gave it to someone else, not MS, made me believe he had a reason to keep it from MS.

Just like if MS wasn't the killer, and the crown speculated that producing the weapon could allow police to tie it to the actual shooter, if DM wasn't the killer, he may have wanted to gun to go to someone who would produce it later to help prove he wasn't the shooter. If it had MS's fingerprints on it, it would explain why he was in such a hurry to get it, only to try to distance himself from it again. It shows he wanted to be in control of disposing of it, and didn't trust anyone else to have it. DM had the perfect opportunity to give it back to him, and didn't.

How do you explain the text conversations between DM and MS, which said MS was going to contact Isho? Sounds like a team decision being hatched in those texts.

Also, common sense dictates that in the 50 minute conversation between DM and MS prior to DM's arrest their mutual priorities would assuredly be discussing and settling upon further plans to cover their tracks, and grandiose ideas for an exit strategy for both of them.

MOO

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[JuneBug67]

I think only MS tried to come up with a special reason for DM wearing his satchel to the Bosmas.

Unless he was wearing a button up shirt that was open enough to access the holster, there was no logical reason to wear a holster. And if that was the case, his shirt would have been open enough to be noticeable, and to make it easy to see that he was wearing a gun and holster. If the shirt was a long sleeved teeshirt, it would be impossible to smoothly pull a gun out of a holster worn underneath it, especially while driving. And it would still be noticeable under the soft material the way it naturally falls.

In short, the holster is mere speculation while the hoodie MS was wearing is factual evidence. <modsnip>

Concealed carry holsters are designed to be worn under whatever you're wearing and be discreet. They hold a weapon snugly against the body at the waistline and there are countless images on the Internet of people demonstrating concealed carry holsters with t-shirts. When we have a holster custom-matched to the alleged murder weapon, that is of course relevant for discussion. The Walther is a small gun easy to tuck anywhere and there is not a single thing about it that makes MS's pocket the most likely place for it and certainly not the only reasonable one, which seems to be your thought. I get that you prefer that scenario in your theory, but the things you use to argue it are very arbitrary. There is no need for special shirts, or buttons, or hoodie pockets. Either of them could have had the gun. One of them did.

 

[JuneBug67]

A holster thought. Where are they now? Should we assume they weren't recovered? If so, missed or disposed of? If the latter it might suggest MS had the holster given that he just had more time to do so. Or, sold with the gun.

 

[Arnie M]

That is very true, but something caused MS to take ownership of the gun the moment DM was arrested. Was it something both planned during the 52 minute visit from DM? Was it DM trying to get the gun into MS's hands to frame MS? Was it MS trying to get his gun back to get rid of it?

IMO, it was the visit and what MS interpreted he could do with the gun if DM was arrested. There is something about that toolbox that both wanted its contents gone, and not just the shooter(s).

MOO

I think the gun-to-smich was just a continuation of what those guys had been doing all along .... hiding and getting rid of evidence

I dont think any framing conspiracy was involved .... that fiction was invented afterwards for court when they were trying to blame each other

I think you are right about the 52 min meeting ... DM knew police were on to him and likely had instructions for MS if he was arrested.

During the trial we were swayed into thinking DM was the main bad guy , then DM tried to put it all on MS , but after the dust settles it looks like they were equal partners all along

 

[Alethea Dice]

My thoughts on the holster. Since it wasn't presented at trial, it's redundant. JMO

 

[canadiangirl]

So question for anyone who doesn't think there was a framing aspect because I'm genuinely curious.

What do you think DM's letters to CN were?

 

[JuneBug67]

My thoughts on the holster. Since it wasn't presented at trial, it's redundant. JMO

Agreed, but I do wonder why it wasn't. Even that it exists seems highly relevant. Argued out maybe?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I had always been under the impression that if DM wanted MS to have the gun back, he would have given it to him during the 40 minute visit on the 9th. The fact that he later gave it to someone else, not MS, made me believe he had a reason to keep it from MS.

Just like if MS wasn't the killer, and the crown speculated that producing the weapon could allow police to tie it to the actual shooter, if DM wasn't the killer, he may have wanted to gun to go to someone who would produce it later to help prove he wasn't the shooter. If it had MS's fingerprints on it, it would explain why he was in such a hurry to get it, only to try to distance himself from it again. It shows he wanted to be in control of disposing of it, and didn't trust anyone else to have it. DM had the perfect opportunity to give it back to him, and didn't.

Maybe DM didn't have the gun on him when he stopped by MS'S place on the 50mins visit. Maybe it was as simple as DM thinking MH had NO linkable connection and LE wouldn't think of looking in MH's direction. Just a safe place (in DM'S demented mind) to hide the gun.

 

[Juballee]

Thank you. That sure makes a lot of sense, Scotty being yet another drug dealer in DM's circle ... Yup, very good reason to distance himself from DM ...

And yes I remember there was an envelope at Maplegate marked Moose from which MB and CN took thousands of dollars.

I am hoping WSer Juballee will enlighten us because her posts say that she was in court the day LW2 testified. Maybe she hasn't seen our posts yet. Really curious as to why she said the tweets and media reports weren't sharing all that LW2 had testified to in court about Scotty, and that the media was somehow holding it back in order to create a mystery to encourage paper sales. In stating that, though, she also didn't enlighten us with the info she heard. I hope she will.


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I cannot enlighten you as to what happened when the jury wasn't present.

I don't know why the media tweets didn't share all that she testified to in court, but since most of it was completely innocuous I can only assume that it was either to protect the identity of Scotty (whose last name was said, and easily forgotten, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Moose) or to create a mystery and drama where there was none to sell papers. I am personally leaning to the latter, because the narrative they gave of her testimony and the actual presentation of it were nothing similar to each other. There was no mystery to Scotty in court, I believe she said he was a friend she introduced to DM, she wasn't asked what his occupation was and there weren't a lot of questions about him. The tweeters didn't find him interesting enough to fill it in for you, so they left it open to create some intrigue.

Unlike other witnesses being questioned, they weren't necessarily asking questions to try to get her to reiterate a story or poke holes in one, they were asking probative questions that they didn't already have answers for.

 

[canadiangirl]

I cannot enlighten you as to what happened when the jury wasn't present.

I don't know why the media tweets didn't share all that she testified to in court, but since most of it was completely innocuous I can only assume that it was either to protect the identity of Scotty (whose last name was said, and easily forgotten, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Moose) or to create a mystery and drama where there was none to sell papers. I am personally leaning to the latter, because the narrative they gave of her testimony and the actual presentation of it were nothing similar to each other. There was no mystery to Scotty in court, I believe she said he was a friend she introduced to DM, she wasn't asked what his occupation was and there weren't a lot of questions about him. The tweeters didn't find him interesting enough to fill it in for you, so they left it open to create some intrigue.

Unlike other witnesses being questioned, they weren't necessarily asking questions to try to get her to reiterate a story or poke holes in one, they were asking probative questions that they didn't already have answers for.

Well that makes sense considering she was never a cooperative witness or gave a police statement to begin with.

 

[Arnie M]

So question for anyone who doesn't think there was a framing aspect because I'm genuinely curious.

What do you think DM's letters to CN were?

Several things in the letters .... DM wants to get witnesses to say he was buying a truck , not stealing one , then DM is playing CN with fake love and trying to make MS the dirty guy.

In other words DM continues to manipulate everybody , not frame them.

I am sure he even had two or three days of success doing that with his first lawyer , convince him he is wealthy , has no need to steal , and somebody planted the dead mans truck in his hangar to frame him. I think Paradkar even believed it at first. DM even told Whidden one of his employees (AJ) was trying to set him up.

DM tried to make it look like everybody was framing him , not the other way around.

 

[JuneBug67]

Several things in the letters .... DM wants to get witnesses to say he was buying a truck , not stealing one , then DM is playing CN with fake love and trying to make MS the dirty guy.

In other words DM continues to manipulate everybody , not frame them.

I am sure he even had two or three days of success doing that with his first lawyer , convince him he is wealthy , has no need to steal , and somebody planted the dead mans truck in his hangar to frame him. I think Paradkar even believed it at first. DM even told Whidden one of his employees (AJ) was trying to set him up.

DM tried to make it look like everybody was framing him , not the other way around.

You don't think those letters indicate he was, among other things, some of which you mention, trying to frame MS for Tim's murder in a completely made up scenario? I don't think any jury on the planet would concur with that.

 

[Variant]

I think only MS tried to come up with a special reason for DM wearing his satchel to the Bosmas.

Unless he was wearing a button up shirt that was open enough to access the holster, there was no logical reason to wear a holster. And if that was the case, his shirt would have been open enough to be noticeable, and to make it easy to see that he was wearing a gun and holster. If the shirt was a long sleeved teeshirt, it would be impossible to smoothly pull a gun out of a holster worn underneath it, especially while driving. And it would still be noticeable under the soft material the way it naturally falls.

In short, the holster is mere speculation while the hoodie MS was wearing is factual evidence. To me, the time for baseless speculation is over when we have so many actual facts presented in trial to work with.

MS hiding a gun in his hoodie is also mere speculation. Both wore clothing that could conceal a gun. Either or both could have been carrying guns.

 

[Errrr]

There is a SM mentioned in billandrew's timeline 4 times. "May 9 8:21 pm Scott Moose texts Millard: "are you available?" Day 37: Harrison testimony
May 9 8:28 pm Millard texts Scott Moose: "something just turned very sour, gonna be busy until at least midnight."

Since LW also mentioned him I assume it is a mutual connection. IMO

Since that big stash of $6000 or so cash lying around Maplegate was called Moose money, I am having the audacity of assuming Scott is a large part of the drug side of DMs business.
....maybe different Scotts?