Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #17 [06.03.16 to 06.09.16]

[MrsThreadgoode]

Just an interesting tidbit ... I was reading tweets from Susan Clairmont today. One of her followers is flying in from Vancouver to be in the courtroom to hear Justice Goodman's charge to the jury. She was asking for Susan's opinion on what time she should get to the courthouse to line up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Sillybilly]

MS says he had a satchel that night. That's evidence because he testified to it so believe it or not. I tend to believe he did but that is just me.

Then there's the floated holster theory. Which someone reported an eBay account that was unverified. That theory is just that. A theory.

IIRC, there was one ebay account that was found to not belong to DM, but the ebay account where a holster was purchased was shown to belong to this Dellen Millard. It is not a floated theory.

 

[andreww]

This case saddens my heart for Tim's family. How they held up during the trial is a testament to their love for Tim Bosma.

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out regarding M.S.'s role in this.

We don't have felony murder here as they have in the U.S. which would mean that both would be held responsible for a murder during
a robbery.

M.S. knew that they were going to steal a truck. He knew there was a gun. D.M. would likely not have gone without M.S. so in my opinion Tim may
still be alive if M.S. hadn't gone. Consequences have to apply.

My question is does it matter who pulled the trigger?

The evidence shows Smich knew exactly what was going to happen that night, so who pulled the trigger really makes no difference.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I wouldn't call it "believing in" either of the accused. It's called not drawing conclusions based on "theories" of holsters, "scenarios" on where TB was killed, "theories" on how many trucks or if they are the same or different trucks, "theories" on how many guns, interpretation of text messages including a "picture" of sausages in a frying pan.
Add to that rap lyrics of course and is that a solid case?
.

I don't think anyone is using any of these items to come to a guilty verdict. The sausage photo was a hot topic but discounted when it was actually seen.

 

[canadiangirl]

IIRC, there was one ebay account that was found to not belong to DM, but the ebay account where a holster was purchased was shown to belong to this Dellen Millard. It is not a floated theory.

How was it shown to belong to DM? I don't recall anyone in LE or anything brought up at trial referencing this. Nor was it in MSM from what I can tell. I'm not saying it wasn't his account, but I'm saying it wasn't confirmed evidence. If it was verified to be his somewhere, I must've missed this.

In ABro comment section where this was posted a poster asked how we knew this was the correct DM. But no response was given.
This seems to be the only place where I can find any information on the holster/eBay account or any reference to it

 

[canadiangirl]

You are going by a poll that was started when the trial was about half over and voted on by people that really haven't been following closely.

Rsbm
If that were the case then these people who weren't following closely shouldve automatically concluded MS as guilty. If they weren't following closely all they would know is 2 guys stole a truck and a man ended up dead and incinerated. Guilty as charged.
I think the results of this prove people may have actually been following closer then you think. JMO

 

[andreww]

IIRC, there was one ebay account that was found to not belong to DM, but the ebay account where a holster was purchased was shown to belong to this Dellen Millard. It is not a floated theory.

How many guns do you think Millard purchased over the year or two before TBs murder? We've heard about two, but does or docent that include the one that killed WM. Were there any others? We know that any info about this would likely be banned and we know that the holster purchase never made it to trial, so I think its safe to say that LE never thought the holster was used and the judge couldn't link it to the gun used in the crime.

 

[andreww]

Rsbm
If that were the case then these people who weren't following closely shouldve automatically concluded MS as guilty. If they weren't following closely all they would know is 2 guys stole a truck and a man ended up dead and incinerated. Guilty as charged.
I think the results of this prove people may have actually been following closer then you think. JMO

Lets just see what the jury says.

 

[Sillybilly]

How was it shown to belong to DM? I don't recall anyone in LE or anything brought up at trial referencing this. Nor was it in MSM from what I can tell. I'm not saying it wasn't his account, but I'm saying it wasn't confirmed evidence. If it was verified to be his somewhere, I must've missed this.

In ABro comment section where this was posted a posted asked how we knew this was the correct DM. But no response was given.
This seems to be the only place where I can find any information on the holster/eBay account

You're right that it was not brought up at trial. I can only guess that it may relate more to the WM matter and we'll hear about it in that trial.

Have you read the whole WS discussion from 3 years ago (do a TB forum search for "holster")? WSers saw the account information at that time (account is no longer accessible at ebay). ABro is a journalist and private investigator, and had the account not belonged to this DM, I'm sure she would have issued a retraction or removed the info in its entirety.

The purchases by dellmillard included a Barsony Brown Leather Concealment Shoulder Holster Walther PP PPK PPKS 380 22 32 and the Barsony IWB Concealment Holster for S&W Bodyguard .380.

Other than that, you'll have to ask ABro.

HTH

 

[Sillybilly]

That holster is for someone right handed, it seems. Did he purchase one like this or a left handed version?

Not sure which version it was but yes, it does come in left or right handed versions. FWIW, the right handed version can simply be worn in the back of the waistband for left hand draw.

 

[ellie b]

BBM - we clearly have different opinions of the intent of the justice system.

In criminal law, Blackstone's formulation (also known as Blackstone's ratio or the Blackstone ratio) is the principle that "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer", as expressed by the English jurist William Blackstone in his seminal work, Commentaries on the Laws of England, published in the 1760s.

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_formulation

Should Smich be locked up? Yes. At a minimum he has admitted to AATF which carries a lengthy prison sentence. Should he be found guilty of 1st degree if the evidence doesn't support it? No. It's a JUSTICE system....not a VENGANCE system.....

I agree with your post in principle absolutely, that being said I believe that there is enough evidence against MS to convict of 1st degree murder.......MOO

 

[canadiangirl]

You're right that it was not brought up at trial. I can only guess that it may relate more to the WM matter and we'll hear about it in that trial.

Have you read the whole WS discussion from 3 years ago (do a TB forum search for "holster")? WSers saw the account information at that time (account is no longer accessible at ebay). ABro is a journalist and private investigator, and had the account not belonged to this DM, I'm sure she would have issued a retraction or removed the info in its entirety.

The purchases by dellmillard included a Barsony Brown Leather Concealment Shoulder Holster Walther PP PPK PPKS 380 22 32 and the Barsony IWB Concealment Holster for S&W Bodyguard .380.

Other than that, you'll have to ask ABro.

HTH

Thanks Silly. I read so much over the past 3 yrs, I'll take a look at the thread when I get the time. It could come up at another trial, you're correct.

I realize ABro is a journalist but since some of the pieces on her site aren't published in MSM and only known if you visit that page, I take them as being more a "blogging" of sorts since she also lists herself as a blogger. You or I could've written the same thing on a private blog as it's the only place I've seen them referenced.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Except that MS had his hands in his hoodie pocket the whole time, as if he was holding or hiding something.

If DM had had his hand in his purse, (if it was there), or on the butt of a gun in a holster, (if it was there), then it could be comparable. But the hoodie was definetly there.

Which could be why the hoodie hiding the gun was presented as a possibility in MS's cross, but we heard nothing about a holster. JMO

 

[canadiangirl]

I don't think anyone is using any of these items to come to a guilty verdict. The sausage photo was a hot topic but discounted when it was actually seen.

It was discounted by who? Many people's opinions have said, this is a hand holding a gun, or various other things they have seen in these sausages. I didnt see a bunch of people dismissing it, but rather hanging onto it as a meaning of something.

 

[Georgeo]

I wouldn't call it "believing in" either of the accused. It's called not drawing conclusions based on "theories" of holsters, "scenarios" on where TB was killed, "theories" on how many trucks or if they are the same or different trucks, "theories" on how many guns, interpretation of text messages including a "picture" of sausages in a frying pan.
Add to that rap lyrics of course and is that a solid case?

<modsnip> I see comments from various WS'ers who are all on the same wavelength that he is guilty of M1, and the evidence and numerous witnesses shows he is not being 100% truthful. Please enlighten us as to why you have these reservations about the charming and upstanding citizen, aka MS....

Just MOO

 

[RandomName479]

I agree with your post in principle absolutely, that being said I believe that there is enough evidence against MS to convict of 1st degree murder.......MOO

I wasn't weighing in on his guilt. My issue is when posters say "he's a bad guy....whether he is guilty or not, let's find him guilty of 1st degree murder and throw away the key - he belongs in jail" Obviously I'm paraphrasing. I trust that the jury will do their job and weigh the evidence and apply the law as per the judge's instructions. <modsnip>

MS may very well be guilty of 1st degree murder. I have no horse in this race.....I just find it very hard to stomach when people make a mockery of our justice system. If you believe the evidence supports the charge, that's one thing.....if you think he's a bad guy and may commit a crime at a later date.....that's not what our justice system is for. MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

You can't incinerate people, but you can do whatever the hell you like with relation to violence. Shoot a stranger in the head, punch a woman in the head, you name it, without consequence. Not coincidentally, the individual parts of these games are often called "missions".

Off topic, on an episode of Breaking Bad I was watching the other day, Jessie is playing a extremely violent video game called Fear, and his line between reality and fantasy is blurring. He stops the game and the words "Mission paused" come across the screen. From the prison letters we know Millard was a big fan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you're talking about the season four episode, Jesse is playing RAGE, not F.E.A.R., and the screen says "Mission Failed". I guess the difference is that you are shooting mutants and bandits instead of fighting the paranormal, unlike Grand Theft Auto where you can just hurt anyone you want as you drive around. I don't think GTA will be going away anytime soon since it is one of the most popular games out there and has been for a few years. Also, anyone I've known who has made it half-way through the first season of Breaking Bad is a fan, so I don't see that having any indication as to someone's tendencies towards violence. JMO

 

[canadiangirl]

<modsnip> I see comments from various WS'ers who are all on the same wavelength that he is guilty of M1, and the evidence and numerous witnesses shows he is not being 100% truthful. Please enlighten us as to why you have these reservations about the charming and upstanding citizen, aka MS....

Just MOO

<modsnip>
First degree murder in Canada is premeditation and/or forcible confinement. And IMO I see enough reasonable doubt that he may be found not guilty of M1.
I don't have any reservations about anyone, and the fact that people make it personal is absurd here. As I've said many times, before hearing all the evidence and
sleuthing 3 yrs ago, I would've said M1 for both. Now that it's gone to trial, and the evidence is in, I can see why people would think there's a reasonable doubt for MS.

Those same witnesses you're referring to btw have been shown not to be 100% truthful themselves, so that is a moot point. IMO
As the judge stated, and I'll say it again, you can believe all, part or none of a witness testimony.

Do I believe 100% of MS testimony? No. I never once implied I did.

To have posters characterize he's not a "charming an upstanding citizen", so he must be guilty is not what the justice system is in Canada.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Just an interesting tidbit ... I was reading tweets from Susan Clairmont today. One of her followers is flying in from Vancouver to be in the courtroom to hear Justice Goodman's charge to the jury. She was asking for Susan's opinion on what time she should get to the courthouse to line up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mrs. T., did you finish your thought here? I thought you were going to share what time SC recommends one should show up to court.

 

[canadiangirl]

<modsnip>
I'm interested to know what the jury didn't get to hear as well. I'm not sure how much can or will be disclosed right now due to the other trials pending though. If it tells us the full story then it should be admissible IMO. Of course I know that's not the case, but it seems unfair the jury does not get the whole picture. I was always under the assumption it went straight to trial due to the overwhelming volume and how complex the case was. But I could be wrong.

Agreeing to disagree but I'll never agree with finding someone guilty because they aren't an upstanding citizen.