Boy Falls into African Painted Dog Exhibit at Piitsburgh Zoo Dies

  • #181
BBM

I don't know how you, or anyone, can distinguish which accounts are 'lies' and which aren't. Until LE conducts a thorough investigation, we won't know exactly what happened.

If what you're saying is true, the mother must have been standing right next to the window. And I can't visualize how the child could 'jump' out of her arms like a monkey and fling himself out the window. In order to make any kind of leap, the boy would have to have his feet firmly pressed onto some relatively firm surface. What would that be? And if he was squirming, it seems to me that he'd pretty much drop straight down.

Either way, why would it matter if she was holding him on the railing or just holding him in her arms? She let him go and he fell out the window. And as the adult here, the mother is certainly to blame. She was negligent- it was an accident. And accidents happen all the time.

But I bet anything she's not going to hold herself responsible. Already the dead child is being blamed for his own death- " ...he jumped from her" is how you put it. Who said that? The parents have probably already hired an ambulance chaser and they'll be blaming the zoo, the staff, the animals- anyone but the mother. Just wait and see.

Well I'm hoping there was someone there with a video camera. There should be all kinds of surveillance on the animals and maybe that will shed some light as to what happened. We should also have some eye witness accounts. This is not the first time a child has fallen into a pit, but I'm hoping that in the future something will be done to stop this from happening again. I don't think this mother went to the zoo to make sure she didn't come home with her son. Unless she suffers from Casey Anthony syndrome. JMO.
 
  • #182
This case is so upsetting. Let me rant. I'm sick and tired of seeing parents do horribly dangerous things with their kids. I see it every, single day. They walk across a busy street, in the crosswalk, without holding their two year old child's hands. They walk on a sidewalk next to a busy road with their toddler walking alone, BEHIND them. I see them allowing their babies to play, unattended, on the balconies in the complex next to my house - with slats big enough for the babies to squeeze through ( a puppy fell to his death from the balcony).

I see parents allowing their precious kids to run around alone, in a store, or run ahead in a crowded parking lot.

Invariably, when I bring the dangerous omission to the parent's attention, they usually act sheepish or even angrily defensive. It drives me nuts.

So, frankly, this hideous tragedy does not surprise me at all.

That being said, I am also a bit surprised by the rage at this mother. She made a stupid, horrible mistake. And she paid the ultimate price. She will not be charged and neither should she be, IMO, because her mistake and the result of it will be lesson enough to her and hopefully, others.

One other point, in looking at those photos, I was a bit shocked at how close the people viewing these animals were to the animals. I was shocked that there was no plexiglass or even mesh at that point. I think that should be changed. Any drunk yahoo or stupid teen could decide to mess around or jump in and neither the zoo nor the animals should have to deal with that.

I do believe it is possible for a person to be holding a child near a ledge and have that child jerk back and out of their arms if the person, for whatever reason, stumbled at the same time or otherwise lost their balance. I have held kids who have jerked their entire bodies that hard. Maybe not out of my arms, but I think it's definitely possible.

I also do not believe the zoo should be sued or, if they are, found guilty of any wrongdoing. People do need to take responsibility for their own actions at a certain point and not every accident can be foreseen. Apparently, there were signs. The mom, for whatever reason, either failed to heed them or something odd happened to cause that child to leave her arms and go over the rail.

So, in sum, the mother was responsible and likely made a horrendous and stupid mistake, but clearly, she did not mean to and did not foresee what would result. She is devastated and always will be. It's probably unlikely that she's some crack mother who repeatedly puts their child in harm's way due to their desire to get high or something. It was likely a one time, stupid mistake that she and her baby and the father and everyone who loved her son, will pay for, forever. Nothing, IMO would be served by prosecuting her.

The zoo does not appear at all to have been negligent, although the Dailymail article does show a viewing deck that is incredibly close to the animals and totally open, with no moat or other barrier between the people and the animals, should one choose to try jump the barrier. But, people need to follow rules and pay attention. Any law suit against the zoo should be thrown out.

Finally, I don;t like zoos very much. I don;t like animals in captivity and especially not in small enclosures. I believe they become even more aggressive in such situations. I feel sorry for those animals and the pack that lost one of its own.
 
  • #183
This case is so upsetting. Let me rant. I'm sick and tired of seeing parents do horribly dangerous things with their kids. I see it every, single day. They walk across a busy street, in the crosswalk, without holding their two year old child's hands. They walk on a sidewalk next to a busy road with their toddler walking alone, BEHIND them. I see them allowing their babies to play, unattended, on the balconies in the complex next to my house - with slats big enough for the babies to squeeze through ( a puppy fell to his death from the balcony).

I see parents allowing their precious kids to run around alone, in a store, or run ahead in a crowded parking lot.

Invariably, when I bring the dangerous omission to the parent's attention, they usually act sheepish or even angrily defensive. It drives me nuts.

So, frankly, this hideous tragedy does not surprise me at all.

That being said, I am also a bit surprised by the rage at this mother. She made a stupid, horrible mistake. And she paid the ultimate price. She will not be charged and neither should she be, IMO, because her mistake and the result of it will be lesson enough to her and hopefully, others.

One other point, in looking at those photos, I was a bit shocked at how close the people viewing these animals were to the animals. I was shocked that there was no plexiglass or even mesh at that point. I think that should be changed. Any drunk yahoo or stupid teen could decide to mess around or jump in and neither the zoo nor the animals should have to deal with that.

I do believe it is possible for a person to be holding a child near a ledge and have that child jerk back and out of their arms if the person, for whatever reason, stumbled at the same time or otherwise lost their balance. I have held kids who have jerked their entire bodies that hard. Maybe not out of my arms, but I think it's definitely possible.

I also do not believe the zoo should be sued or, if they are, found guilty of any wrongdoing. People do need to take responsibility for their own actions at a certain point and not every accident can be foreseen. Apparently, there were signs. The mom, for whatever reason, either failed to heed them or something odd happened to cause that child to leave her arms and go over the rail.

So, in sum, the mother was responsible and likely made a horrendous and stupid mistake, but clearly, she did not mean to and did not foresee what would result. She is devastated and always will be. It's probably unlikely that she's some crack mother who repeatedly puts their child in harm's way due to their desire to get high or something. It was likely a one time, stupid mistake that she and her baby and the father and everyone who loved her son, will pay for, forever. Nothing, IMO would be served by prosecuting her.

The zoo does not appear at all to have been negligent, although the Dailymail article does show a viewing deck that is incredibly close to the animals and totally open, with no moat or other barrier between the people and the animals, should one choose to try jump the barrier. But, people need to follow rules and pay attention. Any law suit against the zoo should be thrown out.

Finally, I don;t like zoos very much. I don;t like animals in captivity and especially not in small enclosures. I believe they become even more aggressive in such situations. I feel sorry for those animals and the pack that lost one of its own.

That is a pet peeve of mine. Really gets on my nerves. I see more of that nowadays.
 
  • #184
  • #185
That is a pet peeve of mine. Really gets on my nerves. I see more of that nowadays.

when I owned a salon and spa I had signs up "HOT, SHARP INSTRUMENTS!:
WATCH YOUR CHILDREN" every where. It did no good.
Mom's came in and forgot they had kids with them.
I especially had a rough time with a doctors wife.
Her 1 boy grabbed shears off a station and before we could grab him, he wacked off his bangs.
I said thank God it wasn't his eye poked out.
She insisted that WE cut his hair so he looked presentable before she went shopping.
I hated to see certain people walk through the door.
BTW dad (DR,) came in and was mad about the awful haircut.
I told him what happened.
He said 'boys will be boys'
I said do you allow kids to run around in your offices???
I later went to a backroom child babysitting for piece of mind.
 
  • #186
  • #187
  • #188
heartbreaking!
 
  • #189
I don't know what happened in this case, but at the same age, my niece (who happened to also live in Pittsburgh) went through a phase where she seemed to lose all fear of falling. She would often try to dive head-first out of your arms while you were carrying her.

I used to have nightmares about it. And, yes, we went to that zoo a lot and, no, I never let my niece get that close to an animal enclosure.

But once I distracted her mother for just a moment and my niece dove out of her mother's arms head-first onto a cobble-stone pavement at the zoo. The toddler's head hitting the pavement made such an awful sound that people came running from all directions, and she ended up with a huge, blue lump on her forehead.

We were lucky. The lump went down and she was fine. She is an honor student in college now. But should my sister and I have been imprisoned for that one split-second of careless distraction? That seems to be what some people here are saying.

Personally I don't see the point of allotting prison space every time an accident occurs.
 
  • #190
Also, it's possible the zoo personnel panicked and couldn't get to the child in time, but there's a big difference between 7 minutes and 13!

Maybe the child was already dead and it took 13 minutes to decide to euthanize the one dog that wouldn't leave the body alone.
 
  • #191
  • #192
when I owned a salon and spa I had signs up "HOT, SHARP INSTRUMENTS!:
WATCH YOUR CHILDREN" every where. It did no good.
Mom's came in and forgot they had kids with them.
I especially had a rough time with a doctors wife.
Her 1 boy grabbed shears off a station and before we could grab him, he wacked off his bangs.
I said thank God it wasn't his eye poked out.
She insisted that WE cut his hair so he looked presentable before she went shopping.
I hated to see certain people walk through the door.
BTW dad (DR,) came in and was mad about the awful haircut.
I told him what happened.
He said 'boys will be boys'
I said do you allow kids to run around in your offices???
I later went to a backroom child babysitting for piece of mind.

No one wants to take responsibility anymore. Lawyers have taught society that there's always somebody else to blame.

Fifteen years ago I started to take Paralegal classes. In my first class, Civil Litigation, we were taught to go after 'the deep pocket' and to target anyone at all who could be held liable in any given situation. Though I did very well in the class, I wasn't unethical enough to be able to make a living doing this. So, I never continued. Today I'm on disability and foster kittens for the animal shelter. And it feels so very right!

Wait and see ... this child's parents will be filing a lawsuit.
 
  • #193
Just sit for 7 minutes.....and wait. That's an awful long time. Just so tragic, and the poor child and parents. Lordy.
 
  • #194
No one wants to take responsibility anymore. Lawyers have taught society that there's always somebody else to blame.

Fifteen years ago I started to take Paralegal classes. In my first class, Civil Litigation, we were taught to go after 'the deep pocket' and to target anyone at all who could be held liable in any given situation. Though I did very well in the class, I wasn't unethical enough to be able to make a living doing this. So, I never continued. Today I'm on disability and foster kittens for the animal shelter. And it feels so very right!

Wait and see ... this child's parents will be filing a lawsuit.

I wish we were not a sue happy nation, but yes I can see a law suit probably brewing as we sit here.
It will be the zoos fault, I'm sure.
Some eager lawyer probably contacted them asa they were up to counsel.
It will be settled out of court, I am sure.
I feelbad for the zoo, in this case I really do.
Bless Maddox, he is truely the little victim in all of this.
 
  • #195
NOVA yes, some children have no fear.
I wonder if he was wearing a slippery parka that made
his mother not be able to grip onto him.
Did he just slip out of her arms?
1st account was said she stood him up on platform and stood in back of him?
We may never know.
 
  • #196
But once I distracted her mother for just a moment and my niece dove out of her mother's arms head-first onto a cobble-stone pavement at the zoo. The toddler's head hitting the pavement made such an awful sound that people came running from all directions, and she ended up with a huge, blue lump on her forehead.

We were lucky. The lump went down and she was fine.

Personally I don't see the point of allotting prison space every time an accident occurs.

I'm so glad your niece was ok, Nova. And I'm guessing that her parents didn't try to sue the zoo or the pavement company.

The little boy's fall into the dog pen is beyond tragic. I can't imagine how horrified his mother was, watching her son being mauled. But I don't blame her, or anyone else, for not jumping in to save the boy, like a super hero. It's not a realistic expectation. Without a weapon, or knowledge about how best to disperse the animals, more people would have been seriously injured from the jump or mauled alongside the boy. I'm sure zoo personnel did the best they could, especially considering that something like that hadn't happened before.

The key word here is 'accident'. Although the mother is ultimately responsible for having her son too close to the window opening, no one can predict every possible occurrence in a given situation. In a million years she never would have imagined that her son would be killed by falling into a pen of wild dogs. But just a few moments of distraction and/or poor judgment changed her entire life. Certainly, she doesn't deserve any further punishment. Both parents will re-live this nightmare forever. I'm sure she'll be much more careful in the future. It's nobody's fault, just a very tragic accident.
 
  • #197
Just sit for 7 minutes.....and wait. That's an awful long time. Just so tragic, and the poor child and parents. Lordy.

Apparently it was VERY obvious to zoo personnel and the police that the child was dead even from a distance. They weren't thinking "well maybe..." it was obvious.

Therefore it likely wasn't a 7 or 13 minute wait to see what happened. It was probably over in 2-4 minutes.

It amazes me that people kept screaming "someone do something". Then there supposedly were men banging on the sides of the enclosure trying to distract the dogs and yelling to the boy "RUN!!!!".

People are becoming very detached from nature and the nature of reality. I can understand the parent being unable to grasp the situation, but bystanders too? If I had been there, once I saw the attack starting I likely would have looked away and felt sick.

It angers me that the zoo personnel allowed the police to shoot an endangered species in order to speed up the investigation and recover a corpse. There was no reason to shoot the animal, no reason whatsoever. I guess the police got all authoritarian and the zoo personnel aren't used to dealing with that sort of pressure, so they said "yeah, okay". That was just plain wrong.
 
  • #198
  • #199
I'm so glad your niece was ok, Nova. And I'm guessing that her parents didn't try to sue the zoo or the pavement company....

No, no law suits. But if my niece had ended up with brain damage that required 20 or 30 years of special care, her parents might have had no choice but to sue. And after all, why was a picnic area intended for children paved with cobblestones?

Those of you (I'm no longer talking to Cracka now) who don't like our sue-happy nation should have supported single-payer healthcare. The citizens of developed nations with mandated healthcare don't NEED to sue every time a child gets a costly injury.

(Now back to Cracka:) While it may have struck you as "immoral" to go after the party with the deepest pockets, from another point of view that's called defending your client to the fullest, which is also a moral obligation once you accept money to do so. I worked for large law firms for over 20 years and I can assure you that the "deep pockets" have plenty of lawyers on retainer to defend them. They almost always get a better defense than the little guy whose suit strikes us as frivolous.
 
  • #200
Apparently it was VERY obvious to zoo personnel and the police that the child was dead even from a distance. They weren't thinking "well maybe..." it was obvious.

Therefore it likely wasn't a 7 or 13 minute wait to see what happened. It was probably over in 2-4 minutes.

It amazes me that people kept screaming "someone do something". Then there supposedly were men banging on the sides of the enclosure trying to distract the dogs and yelling to the boy "RUN!!!!".

People are becoming very detached from nature and the nature of reality. I can understand the parent being unable to grasp the situation, but bystanders too? If I had been there, once I saw the attack starting I likely would have looked away and felt sick.

It angers me that the zoo personnel allowed the police to shoot that dog. There was no reason to shoot the animal, no reason whatsoever. I guess the police got all authoritarian and the zoo personnel aren't used to dealing with that sort of pressure, so they said yeah, shoot the endangered species so you can feel better and speed up your investigation.

You're right, of course, but I assume the passers-by were reacting out of shock, not a logical consideration of dog behavior.

As for the dog that was put down, we haven't seen a clear explanation of that, have we? Maybe there was a reason we just don't know. I agree it is a tragedy, as is the death of the human child.
 

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