Boy From the Woods

[~n/t~]

Just thought - with all these missing kids, is there a central database of DNA that the parents of the missing give DNA to so that when a child is found or suspected to be found, the process is a matter of matching to a database rather than getting DNA from the family to make the match. If there is not a central database it would make sense for that to be done. That way they can just feed the DNA into the details to see if a match comes up?????

I don't think there is a central database. Not sure many would agree to give their DNA unless there is evidence it's their loved one who has been found.

 

[belimom]

My point about walking 2 weeks "north"... there is no road that goes straight north. There would have been crossroads, bridges, etc. If he didn't use roads, then there would be rivers, fences, etc. It would have been a very zig-zagged path, to say the least, even with a map. With just a compass? Someone had to have seen him or he had to have had help.

Why didn't he stop before Berlin? I'm not sure if the 'father' said to just go north, or to to north *to Berlin*. I'm sure he passed many smaller places that he would have settled for, if he was not trying to get to Berlin specifically.

I'm starting to have my doubts now. I was on the fence, but not so sure anymore.

 

[Trino]

If not a hoax, maybe this boy could also match him? He was taken by his father at the age of 2 in 1996. Maybe they left the country and lived somewhere else, like in the UK before leaving to Germany.


http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...ARBA&seqNum=1&caseLang=es_AR&searchLang=en_US

If so, one would assume the boy would know Portuguese since the father probably spoke it.

Does he know simple things, like using a toilet or how to take a shower? What about soap? In what condition were his shoes?

 

[badhorsie]

In the Mail article posted above
"Ray is now having difficulty sleeping in a conventional bed, and had not got used to soap, or hot running water, or any other creature comforts."

The teenager, who is known only as Ray, has indicated that he had been living in undergrowth on the Czech side of the Ore Mountains for the past five years.
Known locally as Krusne Hory, the area is an isolated, rocky area covered in dense woods, and would have been an ideal hideout for a family trying to avoid meeting other people.
Ceska Tiskova Kancelar, the Czech press agency, has confirmed that the German authorities have linked up with their Czech counterparts through Interpol to assist in discovering the identity of the boy, who is around 17.
‘If this lead proves true then he would have walked all the way to Berlin from the Czech Republic,’ said a source close to the case.

 

[~n/t~]

Do they speak English in Czech Republic?

 

[dsntslp]

In the Mail article posted above
"Ray is now having difficulty sleeping in a conventional bed, and had not got used to soap, or hot running water, or any other creature comforts."

The teenager, who is known only as Ray, has indicated that he had been living in undergrowth on the Czech side of the Ore Mountains for the past five years.
Known locally as Krusne Hory, the area is an isolated, rocky area covered in dense woods, and would have been an ideal hideout for a family trying to avoid meeting other people.
Ceska Tiskova Kancelar, the Czech press agency, has confirmed that the German authorities have linked up with their Czech counterparts through Interpol to assist in discovering the identity of the boy, who is around 17.
‘If this lead proves true then he would have walked all the way to Berlin from the Czech Republic,’ said a source close to the case.

Can anybody map this to get an approximate distance he would have had to travel? I wonder how many miles per day he would have had to cover to accomplish this feat?

 

[CarrieBean]

Can anybody map this to get an approximate distance he would have had to travel? I wonder how many miles per day he would have had to cover to accomplish this feat?

Google maps has the distance/time/walking thing. If someone wants to figure in breaks, sleep, etc...

Not me. I suck at that stuff.

 

[mysteriew]

Just thought - with all these missing kids, is there a central database of DNA that the parents of the missing give DNA to so that when a child is found or suspected to be found, the process is a matter of matching to a database rather than getting DNA from the family to make the match. If there is not a central database it would make sense for that to be done. That way they can just feed the DNA into the details to see if a match comes up?????

In the US there is a DNA database, though awareness of it still growing slowly. Parents of missing persons have been steadily flocking to it. I am not sure about overseas though.

 

[belimom]

From the Czech side of the Ore Mtns to Berlin: Google maps says that it ranges from 161 to 166 miles, depending on the route. I would image it may be a little further if you had to backtrack some. It also estimates about 2 1/2 days, walking... LOL!

So two weeks = 14 days = about 12 miles a day, give or take.

 

[Kat]

The datebase that mysteriew referenced above is: http://namus.gov/

 

[dsntslp]

Thanks Belimom!

Sooo...it IS do-able...hmmm...

 

[Wondergirl]

The thing is, if the boy had a "normal" existence prior to him going into the woods, why would he not remember who he was? As others have mentioned, major trauma and memory loss due to some event, or maybe he just knows there is something not right with his existance thus far? I mean, even if something major had happened to him, why wouldn't his father have told him "who he was?" :waitasec:

Troubling indeed.

On Monday it emerged that Ray’s first words on arriving in Berlin on September 5 were: ‘I’m alone in the world. I don't know who I am. Please help me.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...kes-showers-enjoys-bowling.html#ixzz1Ybd050sc

 

[andrea]

I have seen references to Ray remembering his birth date in this thread, but not the date itself. It is June 20th, 1994 according to this article - maybe that means something to someone?

I think the key to finding out who he is is his language, and I also think that authorities are very aware of that. Probably they are already pursuing this lead, but will not release anything before results are clear. There are language scientists who can find out the background of a person precisely, just by listening to their way of speaking, words used, melody of sentences, flection, things like that.

I think the whole thing with his father saying "english is a very important language" already tells us that english is not his first language. The linguists would be able to tell his first language, even if he does not remember it (or does not want to remember it).

For me, the names in this case have a very literary sound. "Ray", "Ryan", "Doreen" - those are names I as a writer would use for people to make clear where they come from, without explicitly writing it (as opposed to names that are used in different languages with the same or very similar spelling).

Theories I have:

1. - There is no dead father in the Czech woods. The boy ran from either a family or a foster home in some eastern country. Many people there speak english fluently and with less accent than german people, because movies and tv series are sent in original language (with subtitles). With a tv in your home, you have a steady stream of native english speakers, which gives a great advantage when learning a language.

2. - The story he tells is mostly correct, but the reason for his father to take him away and to the woods is different. What if he (the father) was a fighter in one of the local wars (Yugoslavia, Chechnia, etc) or a rebel from one of the many countries with internal problems in the region? He might have been traumatized in fight and fled his inner deamons, or even have a very good real reason to leave their home and hide with his son for years.

3, - It's all a big hoax, and the boy is really from somewhere just around the corner. That was my first thought, but I think if it was that way, someone would be looking for him and asking questions - even if the sketch is not very accurate.

I don't think his behaviour points entirely towards the 3rd theory, though. Even if he was taken to the woods not 5, but ten years ago, he still would remember how to shower, watch tv, and probably even bowl. And, as others have pointed out, "living in the woods" does not mean no contact with civilization at all.

 

[mysteriew]

I am puzzled by the phrase "first language". Don't they mean something more like "primary language?"

Here is what I am thinking. Let's say a child spoke English up until the age of 5 or 7. Then they ended up with people who spoke another language. He/she was taught another language and strictly not permitted to speak English. Later (about age 12) he/she was retaught English. Wouldn't that change his/her English accents? Would English be considered their first language, primary language or what?

 

[andrea]

I am puzzled by the phrase "first language". Don't they mean something more like "primary language?"

I may have used the wrong words, sorry, english is not my first... ah, primary language, and most articles I read about the case are in german.

What I meant to say is, linguists can tell from your way of speaking which language was used when you learned to speak as a baby, even if you speak another language without accent.

I have a friend who works in that field, and it is really fascinating. Even for children grown up in multilingual setting, she says they can tell almost every time which is their "dominant" language - "dominant" meaning the language the child has been spoken to most often in his/her first years.

Here is what I am thinking. Let's say a child spoke English up until the age of 5 or 7. Then they ended up with people who spoke another language. He/she was taught another language and strictly not permitted to speak English. Later (about age 12) he/she was retaught English. Wouldn't that change his/her English accents? Would English be considered their first language, primary language or what?

Interesting scenario. I am not a specialist myself, but what I remember being told is that what we perceive as accent is the absence of language specific sounds, like not being able to pronounce the perfect "th" in english, or the specific "r" in french. The brain is losing the abilty to reproduce "new" sounds at an age between 8 and 12 years, which is why children should learn languages as early as possible. So, if he learned english as a baby/toddler, he would be perfectly able to pronounce all that stuff, but there could well be a difference in the melody or words used?

I'll have to ask my friend about that.

 

[wfgodot]

So, let's see....let's say he is indeed a Czech and, like many, has learned English as a lingua franca - a second language, taught in many schools. He has no reason to learn German as he's not German, and German is not English - a language one learns in order to communicate widely with others for whom it is also a second language. How to escape his bleak existence, have adventure, see the world? What about walking to Germany - not that far - and, somehow (he thinks), use what he does know - his English - in order eventually to obtain a still prestigious British passport, his ticket to travel and adventure? He gives the whole thing a fascinating backstory as he is a clever young man and knows this will draw attention, and that something - something good - just might happen for him.

 

[Trino]

If this boy is Czech, shouldn't he speak Czech? Or German? Certainly, not English. I think he learned English in a school some place.

 

[wfgodot]

If this boy is Czech, shouldn't he speak Czech? Or German? Certainly, not English. I think he learned English in a school some place.

But speaking Czech - in my little half-baked possible scenario above - would do him no good, and could in fact lead to his story breaking apart.

 

[andrea]

So, let's see....let's say he is indeed a Czech and, like many, has learned English as a lingua franca - a second language, taught in many schools. He has no reason to learn German as he's not German, and German is not English - a language one learns in order to communicate widely with others for whom it is also a second language. How to escape his bleak existence, have adventure, see the world? What about walking to Germany - not that far - and, somehow (he thinks), use what he does know - his English - in order eventually to obtain a still prestigious British passport, his ticket to travel and adventure? He gives the whole thing a fascinating backstory as he is a clever young man and knows this will draw attention, and that something - something good - just might happen for him.

A very plausible course of action - only not necessarily for a Czech. Czechia is a full member of the European Union, which means a Czech can travel anywhere in the EU, work anywhere in the EU, have social benefits anywhere in the EU. No need for a British (or German etc) Passport, from a logical point of view. Of course there could be other reasons (I remember I was not always thinking logical at 17 ), but I think the idea would make more sense for someone coming from a little farther east or south, like Russia, Belarus, Ucraine (sp?), Bulgaria or somewhere like that.

(eta): In spite of border controls, it wouldn't be very hard to cross a border along into EU territory, especially not for a young boy in summer vacation time. He could have come to Czechia legally, then throw away his ID, wait a while (why not in the woods, it's adventure!) and then come to Germany.

 

[wfgodot]

A very plausible course of action - only not necessarily for a Czech. Czechia is a full member of the European Union, which means a Czech can travel anywhere in the EU, work anywhere in the EU, have social benefits anywhere in the EU. No need for a British (or German etc) Passport, from a logical point of view. Of course there could be other reasons (I remember I was not always thinking logical at 17 ), but I think the idea would make more sense for someone coming from a little farther east or south, like Russia, Belarus, Ucraine (sp?), Bulgaria or somewhere like that.

(eta): In spite of border controls, it wouldn't be very hard to cross a border along into EU territory, especially not for a young boy in summer vacation time. He could have come to Czechia legally, then throw away his ID, wait a while (why not in the woods, it's adventure!) and then come to Germany.

I'm perfectly willing to change my Czechia Ray scenario to, say, Bulgaria! Or Russia, Ukraine, Belarus. I tend to forget about the EU. Czechia's been a member since 2004 - ah!

Whatever the case may be, I'm still not buying the Forest Boy story as it stands.