Brad Cooper Indicted

[CyberPro]

So either some of us just aren't as smart as you...or maybe we just think differently. I have an electrical engineering degree. I problem solve for a living. I love math and did just okay in English etc. It's because with math, there is a definitive answer. If the answer is 27.9834, then that's the answer. 29 isn't the answer. 27.124 isn't the answer. I worked the problem until I got that exact answer. I couldn't stand English because grading was subjective. I knew I was going to get a B no matter how much I tried. I didn't understand why I got the B, but I was going to get one. Does that make sense? I look at what has been made public in this case, and I can't work the puzzle out that makes him guilty. He might very well be guilty, but I can't get to that conclusion yet. You can look at little inconsistencies or relationships and come to the conclusion without any problems. I can't do that. I need to see evidence that that conclusively brings me to that point, and that hasn't been shared yet.

NCSU,

I would argue that you have not considered all of the variables of your equations. I problem solve for a living too, I have an IT degree and have worked on electronic/computer/networking equipment for 29 years. I think I know a thing or two about following a logical thought process.

So, let's do a little math....

How many people live in Wake County?

How many people were physically present in Wake County on the evening of the murder?

How many people were physically present in Cary on the evening/day of the murder?

How many people were within 2 miles of NC's home or possible running locations?

How many people claim to have seen her alive that morning?

How many people waited several hours after NC should have returned to begin "looking" for her?

How many people performed unusual cleaning activities during the period immediately after NC left the home?

--- The list goes on, but if you have an engineering background, you surely understand that these are data points, and after you have them plotted you try to find a line or curve that offers the best fit. Anything else is an outlier, after you can align most of the data points, you have your solution. In the end, it is still POSSIBLE that SODDI, but the preponderance of evidence, albeit circumstantial as far as we know now, points to BC being the most likely perp, or participant. As an aside, even if he did not actually kill her, but had someone else do it, he is just as guilty.

Sure, we do not know the meaning of all of the physical evidence that was discovered, I would love to know it, but we don't now. Take the case of JY for example. Physically, it looks like he is less likely to be guilty, simply because he was out of town when she was found. Now, after reviewing the SWs in the case, we have a lot of evidence that he made a rapid return trip home, there is physical evidence that strongly suggests this, but he has not been arrested yet. OTOH, you have BC physically present in the immediate vicinity of NC, and spinning improbable stories, changing the timelines, doing things that he would not usually do, etc. I suggest that the best fit of these data points is that BC did it.

Nevertheless, when human nature is involved, you have to conclude that you are not dealing with linear equations, more like calculus.

CyberPro

 

[momto3kids]

What an amazing development!! I am lost for words. I think that JA said it best:

"Jessica Adam, a friend of Nancy Cooper's, said she was relieved at news of Monday's indictment.

"This matter obviously desperately needs some closure," she said. "I'm grateful for where we are today.""
http://www.newsobserver.com/2864/story/1270910.html

I am very happy for NC's friends and family.

Where the heck have you been hiding?:couch:

There's plenty to read and see (media) to catch up on. BC is right where he needs to be, not a day to soon IMO.

 

[CyberPro]

I have heard of folks making an Alford Plea in some cases, but I have never heard of this in a potential capital case.

Does anyone know if this is possible in a murder case?

In case you are not familiar with the term, the accused pleads an Alford Plea, which does not confirm guilt, but acknowledges that the prosecution has sufficient evidence that if the case were tried in court the likely result would be conviction.

I do not see the point in most cases unless you can get a reduced sentence, seems like it might be best to roll the dice.

As far as I know, BC has only a few options:

Nolo Contendre (unlikely, especially if DP is an option)
Guilty
Innocent
Alford (not sure if this is applicable in murder cases)
Plea Bargin

Other avenues are more defenses, such as temporary insanity. That only plays if you have not chosen innocent, for example it does not parse to say that someone is innocent but suffered from temporary insanity.

CyberPro

 

[ncsu95]

This isn't math. The case will have 12 jurors, that is the only math needed to count to 12 to get a guilty verdict. These jurors will have to use some subjective reasoning as well as facts applied to reach a verdict. They need to use their common sense and see through the smoke screen that will be billowing up in front of them, like it so often does in cases like this. This is why there are many times a hung jury, the innocent might get sent to jail and the GUILTY are freed!

So I disagree, subjective will certainly be used in this case. Who else is going to connect the dots for them?

Sure it will...but there isn't enough yet for me to conclude he is guilty. That's what I've said all along.

 

[Anderson]

NCSU,

<snipped>

Sure, we do not know the meaning of all of the physical evidence that was discovered, I would love to know it, but we don't now. Take the case of JY for example. Physically, it looks like he is less likely to be guilty, simply because he was out of town when she was found. Now, after reviewing the SWs in the case, we have a lot of evidence that he made a rapid return trip home, there is physical evidence that strongly suggests this, but he has not been arrested yet. OTOH, you have BC physically present in the immediate vicinity of NC, and spinning improbable stories, changing the timelines, doing things that he would not usually do, etc. I suggest that the best fit of these data points is that BC did it.

Nevertheless, when human nature is involved, you have to conclude that you are not dealing with linear equations, more like calculus.

CyberPro

Great Post, CyberPro!!

 

[ncsu95]

Same rules, laws apply to every county in the state. And Wake County does serve as the home part of each year for another corrupt branch of government. Politics (which is another word for personal agendas) bleed all the way down the line - even youth sports!!

I'm just saying, LE from every jurisdiction in Wake parade in front of us for that 6 months, and if I had closed my eyes, I wouldn't have been able to tell one from another. They all sounded alike - used the same phrases, same arrest scenarios (most were drug cases) - it was just tooooo obvious they had been coached, as probably most witnesses are - and it leaves one suspect.

So, I take this endictment w/ a grain of salt. All it means is that one Cary detective went in a room full of average citizens (I think 24??) and spelled out his case. I'm sure he was asked questions, because it's probably the most interesting case they've heard on their watch. But it could be that the case was turned down several times before (remember the scalding), and they have finally found a sympathetic GJ, or the 'holdouts' were absent, and that is why it has taken so long. Or, it may be just that we have an election coming up, and certain individuals want to ensure that certain members of their party are viewed favorably by the public, and a high profile case could help.

Thanks for the insight. Based on what everyone else has said, this pretty much assured conviction. I guess we'll see what evidence is presented at trial. I'm as curious as everyone else to see it.

 

[ncsu95]

They have bigger fires to put out now :crazy: I bet Kurtz is scratching his head :waitasec: wondering which piece of evidence to take on first.

If the LE was smart enough they took the tape and no one will get it until trial. Way back we discussed the types of tapes used, camera's and security. IIRC most thought the tape would be used over after a short period of time.

FWIW...they only sent a subpoena to HT. Not HT's, Wal-Mart, Walgreens or any other 24 store in the area. Their statement about BC NOT going to any other stores that morning....how do they know?

Discovery rules won't allow that.

 

[ncsu95]

NCSU,

I would argue that you have not considered all of the variables of your equations. I problem solve for a living too, I have an IT degree and have worked on electronic/computer/networking equipment for 29 years. I think I know a thing or two about following a logical thought process.

So, let's do a little math....

How many people live in Wake County?

How many people were physically present in Wake County on the evening of the murder?

How many people were physically present in Cary on the evening/day of the murder?

How many people were within 2 miles of NC's home or possible running locations?

How many people claim to have seen her alive that morning?

How many people waited several hours after NC should have returned to begin "looking" for her?

How many people performed unusual cleaning activities during the period immediately after NC left the home?

--- The list goes on, but if you have an engineering background, you surely understand that these are data points, and after you have them plotted you try to find a line or curve that offers the best fit. Anything else is an outlier, after you can align most of the data points, you have your solution. In the end, it is still POSSIBLE that SODDI, but the preponderance of evidence, albeit circumstantial as far as we know now, points to BC being the most likely perp, or participant. As an aside, even if he did not actually kill her, but had someone else do it, he is just as guilty.

Sure, we do not know the meaning of all of the physical evidence that was discovered, I would love to know it, but we don't now. Take the case of JY for example. Physically, it looks like he is less likely to be guilty, simply because he was out of town when she was found. Now, after reviewing the SWs in the case, we have a lot of evidence that he made a rapid return trip home, there is physical evidence that strongly suggests this, but he has not been arrested yet. OTOH, you have BC physically present in the immediate vicinity of NC, and spinning improbable stories, changing the timelines, doing things that he would not usually do, etc. I suggest that the best fit of these data points is that BC did it.

Nevertheless, when human nature is involved, you have to conclude that you are not dealing with linear equations, more like calculus.

CyberPro

Right...and as I've said, I think Jason Young is guilty. I have outlined in the "not yet convinced thread #2" why I have my doubts. None of those items listed has changed as of now. The indictment didn't change any of them. You might disagree with my list...but that is where I have been for a while now.

 

[sunflowers]

They have bigger fires to put out now :crazy: I bet Kurtz is scratching his head :waitasec: wondering which piece of evidence to take on first.

If the LE was smart enough they took the tape and no one will get it until trial. Way back we discussed the types of tapes used, camera's and security. IIRC most thought the tape would be used over after a short period of time.

FWIW...they only sent a subpoena to HT. Not HT's, Wal-Mart, Walgreens or any other 24 store in the area. Their statement about BC NOT going to any other stores that morning....how do they know?

only sent a subpoena to the CC HT?

i would suggest that's all they did because they already knew the answer they wanted so it was best to keep only 1 store in the loop. this info was for their PR campaign---not to see if their client might be guilty. they wanted the public to view brad in a more positive light & to raise reasonable doubt, etc

 

[momto3kids]

Sure it will...but there isn't enough yet for me to conclude he is guilty. That's what I've said all along.

And you're not on the jury either to hear the evidence, nor am I. Again, this is not a numbers problem to figure out in the court of law, but facts and common sense to connect the dots and see thru the smoke.

 

[ncsu95]

And you're not on the jury either to hear the evidence, nor am I. Again, this is not a numbers problem to figure out in the court of law, but facts and common sense to connect the dots and see thru the smoke.

I completely agree. My position has been based on what we do know...not what will be presented in court (which we obviously don't know).

 

[Anderson]

Where the heck have you been hiding?:couch:

There's plenty to read and see (media) to catch up on. BC is right where he needs to be, not a day to soon IMO.

Hi Mom!!

I have been reading some of the posts and trying to catch up. I didn't find out until today! I was truly surprised. But, knowing what we do know on this board, perhaps I shouldn't have been. I do feel very relieved. I don't think that an arrest would have been made without a very strong case.

Back to catching up with all of your posts. It looks like yesterday was a very dramatic day. I gather you were there as the reporters broke the story!!

 

[momto3kids]

only sent a subpoena to the CC HT?

i would suggest that's all they did because they already knew the answer they wanted so it was best to keep only 1 store in the loop. this info was for their PR campaign---not to see if their client might be guilty. they wanted the public to view brad in a more positive light & to raise reasonable doubt, etc

I am going on what the media posted about the subpoena's. HT and TWC I think it was, were the only 2.

K&B posted, "These were Brad's only trips to any store that morning." BC himself went into HT to get his transacation history so he knew which ones to have them ask for. I personally don't think they sent a subpoena to all the local stores, just blowing smoke IMO.

 

[momto3kids]

Hi Mom!!

I have been reading some of the posts and trying to catch up. I didn't find out until today! I was truly surprised. But, knowing what we do know on this board, perhaps I shouldn't have been. I do feel very relieved. I don't think that an arrest would have been made without a very strong case.

Back to catching up with all of your posts. It looks like yesterday was a very dramatic day. I gather you were there as the reporters broke the story!!

Can you believe I wasn't home when the news broke? SG caught up with me right when I got parked to have an evening of shopping. Needless to say...my feet didn't hit the pavement, but the gas to go straight to BC's.
Dang, I would have joined DD in clapping when he was lead out in handcuffs! :crazy:

 

[jumpstreet]

And you're not on the jury either to hear the evidence, nor am I

As mentioned, in the interest of fairness, I sure hope at least one person like ncsu95 (or with a similar way of thinking) ends up on the BC jury...

 

[momto3kids]

Not having the living parent or paternal gp's take the stand for the a custody hearing IMO speaks volumes.
In my eyes it showed cool behavior more than a warm loving one.

To add to my observation of 'cool behavior' as I stated yesterday. The N&O nails what I had said in my post about the Coopers during the custody hearing.


Brad's parents, who still live in Brad's hometown of Medicine Hat, Alberta, looked on from two rows behind. They never said a word.

On Tuesday, Brad Cooper's mother, Carol Cooper, watched her son in another courtroom. She stared straight ahead as her son stood before the judge in his jail-issued jumper. He never looked her way.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/story/1272879.html

BC mom has been in Cary for the past 3 months helping who out? and he wouldn't even look at her? Still trying to control the situation, he's a disgrace, IMO.


BTW....looks like he LIED on his deposition. Is this a surprise? Read about BC taking his wedding band off and telling the French student he was leaving his wife. He is so sick!

Now that his wedding band is off he can tell all the prisoners he is single because he made it that way. Happy days BC! :behindbar

 

[SleuthyGal]

What??? Brad lied in his depostion??? Oh no Brad doesn't lie...nope...must be that fellow MBA student has some grudge against Brad and made up the story. Maybe he wished he could have gotten close to Celine himself! Yeah, that must be it.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Hey Mom, I forgot to ask you at the hearing, which one was Brad's mom? Dark hair or that older blonde haired woman?

 

[momto3kids]

What??? Brad lied in his depostion??? Oh no Brad doesn't lie...nope...must be that fellow MBA student has some grudge against Brad and made up the story. Maybe he wished he could have gotten close to Celine himself! Yeah, that must be it.

Yes siree, everyone is out to get him. Poor Brad boy. I'm sure his defenders feel he would NEVER lie on a deposition, not BC.

I bet he also has himself convinced this orange jumpsuit if his HALLOWEEN costume too! :floorlaugh:

 

[momto3kids]

Hey Mom, I forgot to ask you at the hearing, which one was Brad's mom? Dark hair or that older blonde haired woman?

Older blonde with glasses.