Brendan Dassey's Habeas Corpus Petition Granted

[proudfootz]

Thank goodness we have recordings and transcripts of (some) of the interrogations of Brendan to document how he was lead to make incriminating statements.

We also have sworn testimony from Kayla that the story about Brendan being upset about having witnessed or committed any crimes was false.

 

[missy1974]

New filing from the State today:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Citation-of-Additional-Authority.pdf

They want to add a recent decision to their argument. Here is the case, the decision is from the 3rd.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca7/15-1660/15-1660-2017-01-03.html

I have read it already. There is no evidence that the kid had any intellectual deficiencies like BD. Also, no evidence that the kid was told everything would be okay if he just told them what happened. No evidence that the officers fed him details. All JMO of course

 

[missy1974]

Thank goodness we have recordings and transcripts of (some) of the interrogations of Brendan to document how he was lead to make incriminating statements.

We also have sworn testimony from Kayla that the story about Brendan being upset about having witnessed or committed any crimes was false.

Right, and good thing we have records that show that Kayla's comments about concrete and blood didn't even come from Brendan. If we should even believe that comment, considering it came up in an interview that was conducted days after the Kratz press conference and the whole world knew the Kratz theory at that point, especially the family members. Oh wait... I bet she wasn't in the room when he gave that press conference, he did warn that children under 15 leave the room. Ridiculous.

 

[proudfootz]

Do recordings of Kayla's interrogation exist?

I wouldn't be surprised to find if they were every bit as reprehensible as those for Brendan.

 

[Limaes]

.
Having had experience with Autistic children, I do. I see him as a high functioning Autistic child. There are some tall tale signs in those videos. For instance, he doesn't like to make eye contact. My son does that. I asked the language therapist why she doesn't force him to make eye contact and she said because she wants him to concentrate on the formation of his words. From then on~~I never made him make eye contact.

I think you should dig in a little bit more~~you'll see it too. PBS had a great documentary with one of their reporters who's grandson is Autistic, its a 7 or 8 part series. I can't remember what it was called, but it was very enlightening.

By the way~~ 1 in 67 children in the US will be diagnosed with Autism. No one in my family has a disability or anything like that~~when my son was diagnosed~~I was in shock and had a tremendous learning curve to learn about this disability.

I'm sure your boy is awesome and brings you much joy. However, I don't think BD is Autistic. Through a former job, I have had experience dealing with both children and adults that have mental and physical disabilities including autism and none of them ever switched back and forth like BD does. I don't like to use the word "normal" as I realise some may find it offensive and I don't mean it to be.

I do feel he is slow and has not had positive role models to follow. It is sad that SA was the main person that gave him attention. I also feel BD is lazy which affects his grades. Like Madeleine, I think he did have some remorse and when he went home at 5pm, he did not want to go back and participate in the mutilation and burning of the body but SA was calling him and imo, pressuring him to help finish up.

Regardless, what I posted above earlier is more to do with his mother and grandfather's behaviour than his. They were telling him what to say and not accept a plea deal that would have seen him nearly at the end of his sentence by now.

 

[proudfootz]

While we have no evidence of Steven 'pressuring' Brendan, we do have abundant evidence of police pressuring him.

For example, in the first recorded interview from Nov 6th police are trying to get Brendan to say he saw Teresa when he got off the school bus on Monday, October 31st. So they tell him (falsely) everyone else saw her - all the other kids and the bus driver - so Brendan must 'remember' having seen her too.

They are also telling him the 'no one has to know' what he says, and that it 'doesn't mean anything' if he repeats their suggested 'memories'.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...dan-Dassey-Interview-Transcript-2005Nov06.pdf

About page 17 in this document you can read how the police are already working on Brendan to get him to make false statements.

What kind of witness interview requires the police to suborn perjury?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I'm sure your boy is awesome and brings you much joy. However, I don't think BD is Autistic. Through a former job, I have had experience dealing with both children and adults that have mental and physical disabilities including autism and none of them ever switched back and forth like BD does. I don't like to use the word "normal" as I realise some may find it offensive and I don't mean it to be.

I do feel he is slow and has not had positive role models to follow. It is sad that SA was the main person that gave him attention. I also feel BD is lazy which affects his grades. Like Madeleine, I think he did have some remorse and when he went home at 5pm, he did not want to go back and participate in the mutilation and burning of the body but SA was calling him and imo, pressuring him to help finish up.

Regardless, what I posted above earlier is more to do with his mother and grandfather's behaviour than his. They were telling him what to say and not accept a plea deal that would have seen him nearly at the end of his sentence by now.

.
We can agree to disagree then.

 

[missy1974]

While we have no evidence of Steven 'pressuring' Brendan, we do have abundant evidence of police pressuring him.

For example, in the first recorded interview from Nov 6th police are trying to get Brendan to say he saw Teresa when he got off the school bus on Monday, October 31st. So they tell him (falsely) everyone else saw her - all the other kids and the bus driver - so Brendan must 'remember' having seen her too.

They are also telling him the 'no one has to know' what he says, and that it 'doesn't mean anything' if he repeats their suggested 'memories'.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...dan-Dassey-Interview-Transcript-2005Nov06.pdf

About page 17 in this document you can read how the police are already working on Brendan to get him to make false statements.

What kind of witness interview requires the police to suborn perjury?

IMO those early interviews gave them insight to who they could "turn", or who was the most vulnerable, unfortunately, it was Brendan. And of course, the timing was just all too coincidental to when Strang and then later Buting started representing Avery.

JMO of course ;-)

 

[dexter75]

.
We can agree to disagree then.

BCA
My brother in law is just as you describe.
Autism is a VERY complex disorder and those who are diagnosed often fall on a spectrum of sorts. There's also Autism Spectrum Disorder.
Unless a person has met with, spent time with, and evaluated one who has been diagnosed...well, IMO, it isn't fair to judge or even make assumptions.
I'll just leave it at that😉

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[dexter75]

.
What I see is a conversation between a mother and a disabled child. If you heard some of the conversations around here with my Autistic boy~~it would sound exactly like that~~doesn't make my boy a murderer any more than it does BD.

Omg I know.
I can remember my mother in law and brother in law going back and forth when he was about 15.
Omg. Went over to visit years ago one day and it was freezing in the house!
My husband " Why is it so cold in here?"
MIL " J turned the heat down again. J..why do you keep turning the heat down??? "
I walk over to the thermostat and turn it from 58 to 70. ( It's the middle of January in Michigan! )
J looks down at the floor and as we are all talking amongst ourselves he proceeds to say " I don't want it hot in here like the Devil "
Seriously.
No rhyme or reason.
We aren't church going people and he wasn't in any kind of special education classes & he went back & forth with off the wall comments all the time.
And he was serious.
He was diagnosed with autism years ago.
No 2 people are ever the same.
Have no idea what his IQ is.

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[BigCityAccountant]

Omg I know.
I can remember my mother in law and brother in law going back and forth when he was about 15.
Omg. Went over to visit years ago one day and it was freezing in the house!
My husband " Why is it so cold in here?"
MIL " J turned the heat down again. J..why do you keep turning the heat down??? "
I walk over to the thermostat and turn it from 58 to 70. ( It's the middle of January in Michigan! )
J looks down at the floor and as we are all talking amongst ourselves he proceeds to say " I don't want it hot in here like the Devil "
Seriously.
No rhyme or reason.
We aren't church going people and he wasn't in any kind of special education classes & he went back & forth with off the wall comments all the time.
And he was serious.
He was diagnosed with autism years ago.
No 2 people are ever the same.
Have no idea what his IQ is.

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.
Hi Dexter :seeya:

I think you hit the nail on the head. You are absolutely right~~no 2 children on the spectrum are exactly the same. I once did a presentation on Autism. For instance, if most people put a feather in their hand, it would feel soft, fluffy, and maybe even tickle. Take that same feather and put it in the hand of an Autistic Child and it MAY feel like tar paper to them. I say MAY because to some it would feel like a feather and yet others tar paper.

My boy has extreme sensitivity to noises, others it could be sounds, lights or a whole host of other triggers. We have no idea if BrD is on the spectrum, but I see signs that make me think that he surely could be.

There are also facial characteristics as well that can indicate a child is on the spectrum. I remember when he was first diagnosed, we had therapists come to the house for therapy. One of the therapies was to strengthen the muscles in his cheeks by him using a straw because that would help him with formulating words. I see those same facial characteristics in BrD, and that is why I suspect he may be on the spectrum.

When people ask me about it I often tell them the spectrum is like a ruler with 12 being the most severe and 1 being persuasive development disorder and 6 being Asperger's. (Disclaimer: My no means am I claiming I'm an expert on the disorder) I see kids all across the spectrum and actually have a friend who has a 20 year who is closer to a 10 on the spectrum. I actually had to go and apologize to her after my boy was diagnosed~~because I had no idea what she was going thru, until I lived it. Thankfully my boy is closer to the middle of the spectrum.

 

[dexter75]

.
Hi Dexter :seeya:

I think you hit the nail on the head. You are absolutely right~~no 2 children on the spectrum are exactly the same. I once did a presentation on Autism. For instance, if most people put a feather in their hand, it would feel soft, fluffy, and maybe even tickle. Take that same feather and put it in the hand of an Autistic Child and it MAY feel like tar paper to them. I say MAY because to some it would feel like a feather and yet others tar paper.

My boy has extreme sensitivity to noises, others it could be sounds, lights or a whole host of other triggers. We have no idea if BrD is on the spectrum, but I see signs that make me think that he surely could be.

There are also facial characteristics as well that can indicate a child is on the spectrum. I remember when he was first diagnosed, we had therapists come to the house for therapy. One of the therapies was to strengthen the muscles in his cheeks by him using a straw because that would help him with formulating words. I see those same facial characteristics in BrD, and that is why I suspect he may be on the spectrum.

When people ask me about it I often tell them the spectrum is like a ruler with 12 being the most severe and 1 being persuasive development disorder and 6 being Asperger's. (Disclaimer: My no means am I claiming I'm an expert on the disorder) I see kids all across the spectrum and actually have a friend who has a 20 year who is closer to a 10 on the spectrum. I actually had to go and apologize to her after my boy was diagnosed~~because I had no idea what she was going thru, until I lived it. Thankfully my boy is closer to the middle of the spectrum.

You make many great points here, BCA

The different sensitivities & ( sounds, lights..even something like the FEEL of paper towels ) facial characteristics ( I see them too. In fact, they're obvious to me. ) are sure signs of being on the Autism spectrum.( Brother in law & Nephew are dx'd )

One of my besties is a Speech-Language Pathologist. In her professional opinion, after watching Brendan in those interviews, she could definitely speculate he's on the Autism spectrum. Of course she could say many other things as well TBI, a disrespectful murdering teen, lol..( I DO get you though )

The ruler analogy is a great one IMO

FWIW
I asked one of my daughter's best friends mom ( who happens to be a prominent DR in our town ) what she thought of Brendan's behavior. ( we have become great friends and yep, she watched quite a bit of video footage with me )
Her response was along the lines of while she can't exactly pinpoint/diagnose him, she can absolutely see trouble with Cognitive-communication organization, not making eye contact, monotone expression to name a few.

You put it perfectly when you stated " until you lived it " IMO Until you do, you just shouldn't judge

 

[missy1974]

New filing from the State today:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Citation-of-Additional-Authority.pdf

They want to add a recent decision to their argument. Here is the case, the decision is from the 3rd.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca7/15-1660/15-1660-2017-01-03.html

I have read it already. There is no evidence that the kid had any intellectual deficiencies like BD. Also, no evidence that the kid was told everything would be okay if he just told them what happened. No evidence that the officers fed him details. All JMO of course

Here is Nirider's response to the above.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-APlJawt-6RMjlMYnFkZkpCVXM/view

She points out the totality of the circumstances again, how the Wisconsin Court of Appeals applied it unreasonably because the State court was wrong in the first place. (in a nutshell)

She also put in a good dig at the end, reminding the 7th Circuit that Brendan's interrogation video's are used in training to show 'what not to do'.

 

[dexter75]

Here is Nirider's response to the above.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-APlJawt-6RMjlMYnFkZkpCVXM/view

She points out the totality of the circumstances again, how the Wisconsin Court of Appeals applied it unreasonably because the State court was wrong in the first place. (in a nutshell)

She also put in a good dig at the end, reminding the 7th Circuit that Brendan's interrogation video's are used in training to show 'what not to do'.

Which is absolutely INFURIATING to me!
( what not to do )
And yet there he sits, in PRISON.

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[missy1974]

Oral arguments are set for February 14th, originally they were only going to get 15 minutes each (which includes questions/answers). They are giving 5 more minutes, they must have read the briefs and know they might have lots of questions lol

 

[missy1974]

Just a reminder that the 7th circuit oral arguments are set for Tuesday morning. From what I understand, it should be available to listen to by the end of the day.

 

[IDK]

Informative article which explains more about the judicial process involved:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...sey-conviction-making-murderer-case/97880018/

 

[missy1974]

Link to the audio of the hearing this morning:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Dassey-Oral-Arguments.mp3

The 3 judges that heard it:

David Hamilton, Ilana Rovner, Ann Williams

just got home from work, and I just turned it on. I've read positive comments about the questions asked, at least from 2 of the judges.

 

[proudfootz]

Link to the audio of the hearing this morning:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Dassey-Oral-Arguments.mp3

The 3 judges that heard it:

David Hamilton, Ilana Rovner, Ann Williams

just got home from work, and I just turned it on. I've read positive comments about the questions asked, at least from 2 of the judges.

Haven't had a chance to listen to it myself, but i've read that the judges have asked some very penetrating questions of the lawyers.

 

[Karinna]

Link to the audio of the hearing this morning:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Dassey-Oral-Arguments.mp3

The 3 judges that heard it:

David Hamilton, Ilana Rovner, Ann Williams

just got home from work, and I just turned it on. I've read positive comments about the questions asked, at least from 2 of the judges.

Hi missy, I couldn't listen to it after clicking on the link. What's mp3? If someone can paraphrase some key points in the hearing would be much appreciated, TIA.