British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects

[Nova]

And..also people who murder people lie!!

And no its not remarkable there isnt much evidence when its known that Amanda bought cleaning fluids that morning. And even if there was a lot..it would be said the cops planted it anyhow...

Absolutely, Isabella, guilty people lie to avoid consequences. So AK's lies are hardly evidence of innocence. But we also know now that innocent people lie to avoid the pressure of interrogation. I want any statement made under those circumstances corroborated by other evidence.

So AK cleaned up all or nearly all of her and RS' DNA, but left RG's? That's quite a feat unless RG's DNA found only inside the victim and her purse. Is that the case?

 

[Nova]

Oh believe me..if i was in the shower i would notice if there was a basin with a load of blood in it. I think most everyone would. I also think most would go looking to see where the blood come from...unless you know where it comes from i guess.

So most of the blood was in the basin rather than the shower itself?

I certainly don't check my sink before I get into the shower. Nor do I scan the bathroom for blood. Just careless, I guess.

 

[Isabella]

Absolutely, Isabella, guilty people lie to avoid consequences. So AK's lies are hardly evidence of innocence. But we also know now that innocent people lie to avoid the pressure of interrogation. I want any statement made under those circumstances corroborated by other evidence.

So AK cleaned up all or nearly all of her and RS' DNA, but left RG's? That's quite a feat unless RG's DNA found only inside the victim and her purse. Is that the case?

Actually ive only seen about the dna on her purse being said on this forum so i wouldnt know. But no there dna was found in other places in the house.

As for her lies not meaning shes guilty and wanting other evidence then fine..i want other evidence from her that the police hit her on he head. I want evidence the police suggested she saw Patrick kill Meredith. I want evidence of where she was that night seeing as neither her or boyfriend seem to know. It works both ways...if everyone but Amanda is lieing so you want proof..then i want proof shes telling the truth and everyone else is lieing. Maybe if its shown she can be honest about anything..people might start to believe her.

 

[Nova]

Of course they arrested Patrick. Amanda said she had seen him murder her room mate. What i said was there was no proof of what you said. You simply have no idea what the Italians thought.

And because she was questioned does not mean the pc said to her..oh Amanda you saw Patrick Lumbaba kill Meredith didnt you? Or Hey Amanda you dreamed you was there and now your dreaming your not. I just think its crazy all the cops are lieing..all the witnesses are lieing..and yet one person isnt.

You keep insisting that everything AK has said is a lie or else every prosecutor, cop and witness is lying. Alas, the world doesn't work that way. People make mistakes. People fudge a fact in what they believe is the interest of a greater truth. Etc. and so forth.

What I said was that the producers of 48 Hours made a certain claim. I never said I personally know the claim is true, but apparently neither do you know it is false. For now, it remains a claim.

With all due respect, now you say, "Of course, they arrested Patrick" on AK's say so, but a few posts back you said you don't think the police ever believed a word she said. Unfortunately, something led them to PL.

We do know the Italians thought AK and RS acted alone. They announced as much with great fanfare before they were confronted with incontrovertible evidence that RG was involved. So whether or not any Italian cop is lying, they are certainly not infallible.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Some folks just aren't "morning people."

Seriously, I don't know about AK, but I do a lot of things in the morning pretty much out of habit without looking around.

Even later, I'm not all that observant. My husband put up a Christmas tree and lit it yesterday. I didn't notice until he mentioned it.

Have you actually read any of the "facts" about this case?

Meredith was at Rafalles...came back to her place at 10:30 (she says)
however, was seen much earlier at the little store (in cleaning supply aisle)

she did not call the police

the police found 2 cell phones...both belonging to Meredith, in a vacant lot...and apparently figured out who they belonged to and were coming to the apartment to return them..it was then 12:30 pm..

Amanda and Rafaelle were in front of the house...looking confused...
and told the cops that the door was open , window broken, and it was strange that there was "blood in the bathroom"...Amanda even wondered how that happened, saying "we are pretty neat girls" or something like that

she also had taken a shower in the bloody bathroom...there are pictures of it on the net...unreal

they then went upstairs and the cops knocked on Merediths locked door and kicked it in

they saw the "lake of blood" and quickly closed it

they say that Amanda was not in the bedroom and they don't feel she had time to see it but in the few days of freedom before she was arrested she told other students that she had "seen Meredith all bloody and wrapped up in a sheet"
(actually it was a duvet, those European style comforter/Ikea type bedding thingys)

Non morning person or not, don't you think a bloody bathroom and s//t in the toilet might make you call the cops...along with open door and a broken window??

btw...the window is a joke...the roof is very steep and there is no way that someone could climb up it and hang over and get in that window

Before I post on a subject I try to do some research, read various articles, and check around on the net. That way at least I can post some facts hopefully, not just my own "thoughts"

 

[LogicalMinds]

So most of the blood was in the basin rather than the shower itself?

I certainly don't check my sink before I get into the shower. Nor do I scan the bathroom for blood. Just careless, I guess.

No it was streaked on the walls also

a bit more than careless

 

[Nova]

Actually ive only seen about the dna on her purse being said on this forum so i wouldnt know. But no there dna was found in other places in the house.

The DNA in the purse claim was also aired by CBS last night.

So we have everyone's DNA all over the house, but nothing that ties them directly to the crime. Is that your understanding?

 

[Isabella]

So most of the blood was in the basin rather than the shower itself?

I certainly don't check my sink before I get into the shower. Nor do I scan the bathroom for blood. Just careless, I guess.

I have no idea how big your bathroom is. But i do know in most of Europe it would be hard to miss it. So you go in a bathroom...get undressed...put your towel somewhere...turn your water on...and not once go anywhere near the sink? I am sorry but i stand by that most would have seen it .

 

[LogicalMinds]

You keep insisting that everything AK has said is a lie or else every prosecutor, cop and witness is lying. Alas, the world doesn't work that way. People make mistakes. People fudge a fact in what they believe is the interest of a greater truth. Etc. and so forth.

What I said was that the producers of 48 Hours made a certain claim. I never said I personally know the claim is true, but apparently neither do you know it is false. For now, it remains a claim.

With all due respect, now you say, "Of course, they arrested Patrick" on AK's say so, but a few posts back you said you don't think the police ever believed a word she said. Unfortunately, something led them to PL.

We do know the Italians thought AK and RS acted alone. They announced as much with great fanfare before they were confronted with incontrovertible evidence that RG was involved. So whether or not any Italian cop is lying, they are certainly not infallible.

I didn't say that...they arrested Patrick on Amanda's testimony..they kept him in jail for 14 days..

when they released him....Amanda had a new story, blaming her (by then ex) lover Rafaelle..

she made that story up on the spot in court...not under "interrogation"

the Italians knew they were looking for a 4th suspect, a black man, when they got the dna tests back....and they had prints...which they were able to match to Guede...

they extradicted him from Germany

Please don't twist the facts....the early ideas in an investigation are not "infallible"..at one point cops were looking for "the black man" that Susan Smith blamed when her 2 little boys were missing...at one point LE was searching for "the Runaway Bride"....

Guede's dna was in meredith...his prints are in the apartment...and in her purse

money was missing from her purse (presumably Guede took it)

she had 2 cellphones...and both were thrown in a neighboring empty lot...which is how the police happened to come up Amanda and Rafalle

if you showered at 10:30 am...ignoring a bloody sink...would you then hang around and not call cops even tho 1) blood in apt..2) door open...3) roommates room locked...4) a window was broken (even tho it was high up, under a highly sloped roof and impossible to enter

well Amanda did all all of that

 

[Isabella]

You keep insisting that everything AK has said is a lie or else every prosecutor, cop and witness is lying. Alas, the world doesn't work that way. People make mistakes. People fudge a fact in what they believe is the interest of a greater truth. Etc. and so forth.

What I said was that the producers of 48 Hours made a certain claim. I never said I personally know the claim is true, but apparently neither do you know it is false. For now, it remains a claim.

With all due respect, now you say, "Of course, they arrested Patrick" on AK's say so, but a few posts back you said you don't think the police ever believed a word she said. Unfortunately, something led them to PL.

We do know the Italians thought AK and RS acted alone. They announced as much with great fanfare before they were confronted with incontrovertible evidence that RG was involved. So whether or not any Italian cop is lying, they are certainly not infallible.

Actually i dont know where it was said AK and RS were working alone but in the case pretty early here they said they was trying to get Geude back which suggested they knew they hadnt worked alone. In addition..Amanda was questioned at the beginning and told them about Patrick so again i dont see how they thought they worked on there own when we know they arrested Patrick for it.

 

[Isabella]

Have you actually read any of the "facts" about this case?

Meredith was at Rafalles...came back to her place at 10:30 (she says)
however, was seen much earlier at the little store (in cleaning supply aisle)

she did not call the police

the police found 2 cell phones...both belonging to Meredith, in a vacant lot...and apparently figured out who they belonged to and were coming to the apartment to return them..it was then 12:30 pm..

Amanda and Rafaelle were in front of the house...looking confused...
and told the cops that the door was open , window broken, and it was strange that there was "blood in the bathroom"...Amanda even wondered how that happened, saying "we are pretty neat girls" or something like that

she also had taken a shower in the bloody bathroom...there are pictures of it on the net...unreal

they then went upstairs and the cops knocked on Merediths locked door and kicked it in

they saw the "lake of blood" and quickly closed it

they say that Amanda was not in the bedroom and they don't feel she had time to see it but in the few days of freedom before she was arrested she told other students that she had "seen Meredith all bloody and wrapped up in a sheet"
(actually it was a duvet, those European style comforter/Ikea type bedding thingys)

Non morning person or not, don't you think a bloody bathroom and s//t in the toilet might make you call the cops...along with open door and a broken window??

btw...the window is a joke...the roof is very steep and there is no way that someone could climb up it and hang over and get in that window

Before I post on a subject I try to do some research, read various articles, and check around on the net. That way at least I can post some facts hopefully, not just my own "thoughts"

A dumb question ..or not as the case may be, So Amanda comes home and theres a broken window but still has a shower (??) and when in bathroom notices the blood but as i said still has a shower anyhow. You would assume there would be drops of blood on the floor..so...why not check Merediths room to make sure she was ok?

 

[Isabella]

The DNA in the purse claim was also aired by CBS last night.

So we have everyone's DNA all over the house, but nothing that ties them directly to the crime. Is that your understanding?

No its not.

 

[LogicalMinds]

A dumb question ..or not as the case may be, So Amanda comes home and theres a broken window but still has a shower (??) and when in bathroom notices the blood but as i said still has a shower anyhow. You would assume there would be drops of blood on the floor..so...why not check Merediths room to make sure she was ok?

Yes, but that is what she says she did...she also claimed that she then walked back over to Rafalles and he came back and they were standing outside there and the police came up...to bring back the cellphones

there is also more crazy stuff from Rafalle...who claims that he did call police....their 911...(or whatever number they use)..

his phone shows that he did..and hung up...but hours later,

the hours from the time that Amanda found the open door, broken window, locked bedroom and bloody bathroom....??? all would be used in a trial in the usa I am sure

 

[LogicalMinds]

I am removing the bathroom picture as it seems to be "pink" due to foreensic spray..

the link and pictures are from an English paper...."dailymail"..which may be one of their horrible
tabloids or something...
while it in no way makes me think Amanda is innocent, I don't want to be posting bad info

another poster posted the link to actual video which shows bloodly footprint and blood in the bidet but a lot less blood...thanks for understanding

and the link to this and other pics is here >>



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-scene-reveal-apartment-bloodbath-horror.html

 

[LinasK]

The DNA in the purse claim was also aired by CBS last night.

So we have everyone's DNA all over the house, but nothing that ties them directly to the crime. Is that your understanding?

We have Amanda's DNA on the knife handle, with Meredith's on the tip! A knife that came from RS's place.

 

[Winnts]

Here is a picture of the bathroom....on the left..
this is where Amanda showered...the other pic on the right is Meredith's bedroom

and the link to this and other pics is here >>


Is this the pic of the bathroom where she took a shower?????? If so I am shocked I thought she might have been innocent until I saw this picture.

 

[Isabella]

Here is a picture of the bathroom....on the left..
this is where Amanda showered...the other pic on the right is Meredith's bedroom

and the link to this and other pics is here >>


Is this the pic of the bathroom where she took a shower?????? If so I am shocked I thought she might have been innocent until I saw this picture.

Yes it is

 

[jjenny]

That's a lot of blood on that photo. Not just on the sink-I see blood on the floor, toilet, wall and I guess a waste basket (or some sort of storage container) behind the toilet.

 

[Isabella]

That's a lot of blood on that photo. Not just on the sink-I see blood on the floor, toilet, wall and I guess a waste basket (or some sort of storage container) behind the toilet.

Yea but apparently when people go in bathrooms they dont look around and miss all that : (

 

[LogicalMinds]

Oh...some other interesting points

>>> the day after the murder night....Amanda is seen at the little grocery store in the cleaning products section early monring

>>> a reciept from that store, dated and timed early am is found at Rafalle's apt

>>> amanda is back and forth between the apt and Rafaelle's..she claims she came back at 10:30 t find the door open...but she thought "maybe one of the roommates just left it open for a moment" so she goes in and "takes a shower"..yes in that bathroom...and then instead of calling cops she goes back to Rafaelle to tell him that "someone broke in and there is blood in the bathroom"

>> the broken window was in one of the Italian girls bedrooms....and the glass was broken OUT...

>>> before calling cops, Amanda called her Italian roommate and reported that "someone broke in"...mentioning the window

>>> Rafaelle and Amanda are standing around out front about 12:30 PM...when 2 "postal police" (? non criminal type police??) come with 2 cellphones...an elderly neighbor had found them in her yard and was scared...she called them and they came and were able to trace one back to the rented house the girls shared (it was one of the Italian roommates, who had lent it to Meredith)

>>> There is a call to their 911 (112) from Rafalle's phone..but it is after the time the postal cops say they got there

>>> Rafaelle also called his sister who is in the regular police force...but can't get hold of her

>>> Rafaelle is adament to the postal cops that "someone came in the window"...
despite the fact that Amanda says the door was wide open

>>> later Rafaelle will keep talking about the window

only problem...the house is old with a steeply pitched roof..and overhang, impossible to climb up that and around and under the eave to get in that window

and....duhhhh...the glass from the broken window is on the outside...

IF someone came thru that window they would need a ladder...and would have to break it INWARD...the glass would be on the floor...not on the window sill

this is one of the stupidest things>>> it was quickly seen to be a staged break in