British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects

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Absolutely Steely Dan,

Stick to her words and her words only, leave out everything else and there is lie upon lie upon lie.

1. Her statements to police, where her story has changed many times
2. Her email to her friends
3. Her statements in court

Why does she continually lie?

Gee, (thinking while rubbing chin) I really don't know.

If you tell the truth about something..you dont need to remember the lies.

JMO

Another Judge Judy cliche'. "If you tell the truth you don't need to remember the lie." or something like that. Too true.

I just saw the picture of the bathroom with all the blood - I thought part of the evidence was that AK and the boyfriend bought two jugs of bleach and had spent a good deal of time cleaning up the crime scene. Would that have been their idea of cleaning up? Or did they just speculate that they cleaned stuff up outside of the crime scene?

The pink stuff is Luminol reacting with the blood that's been cleaned up and hidden to the naked eye. There are pictures back in this thread that show what AK would have seen just before taking her shower. It looks clean.

After the Polizi spray the room with Luminol the pink stuff appears showing where blood had been before a cleaning.

IMO, they cleaned up the bathroom before calling the cops.
 
I don't think Italian procedures are "wrong" or unfair just because they are different from procedures in the U.S. or U.K.

But surely people have a right to point out and protest what they believe to be judicial inequity--anywhere they find it.

I personally dont think people have a right to criticise how interviews are done in another country. I personally think the way interviews are done in America..or at least in some states totally sucks and especially the way statements to the police end up on Nancy Grace. No wonder people think its wrong that other countries actually believe more in privacy.

But regardless..if your in another country you abide by there laws and infact there is a famous saying

"When in Rome do as the Romans do".
 
Nope the Mail is nothing like the Enquirer. Our papers are not like yours and will get fined if they print anything that isnt the truth. Likewise..they have to print apologies if someone complains about a article being untrue which hasnt happened in this case.

For the record i saw the youtube last night. Because they say thats how the bathroom looked after the chemicals were put in..im curious in fact what makes them more believeable than the Mail is?

Huh?
Are you in England?
 
I personally dont think people have a right to criticise how interviews are done in another country. I personally think the way interviews are done in America..or at least in some states totally sucks and especially the way statements to the police end up on Nancy Grace. No wonder people think its wrong that other countries actually believe more in privacy.

I disagree. We all have that right but, IMO, it needs to be done carefully. Americans are getting the strained version of facts in most reporting and that's why they think the Italians suck. We only know what the media tells us.

This trials reporting has really opened my eyes to American bias in our press. I knew there was some but I didn't think it was this egregious!! :furious:

Thank God for the internet. I often wonder how I lived without it. If it wasn't for you, Isabella, and the means for us to communicate and easily obtain reporting on the internet I'd be stuck with the American reporting.

I'm old enough to remember life pre and post internet and man the internets great.

I remember calling it magical to a friend when I got my first internet hookup and he was explaining how it all worked. I was using dialup that took all day to load pages back then.

You know you're getting old when you use the following phrase; Kids today don't know how lucky they are.

HEY! HEY! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
 
I personally dont think people have a right to criticise how interviews are done in another country. I personally think the way interviews are done in America..or at least in some states totally sucks and especially the way statements to the police end up on Nancy Grace. No wonder people think its wrong that other countries actually believe more in privacy.

Huh? You say people don't have a right to criticize, then you proceed to do so.

FWIW, I know the UK severely limits pre-verdict publicity. I have mixed feelings about that--as I'm sure you know, we allow more coverage on the premise that a free press is the best check on governmental excess, but I agree with you that trying the case "in the media" gets way out of hand here.

And I have no problem with your criticizing our judicial system when you find it unfair.

Perhaps more importantly to this discussion, one has to evaluate the fairness of the process in order to form an opinion on the correctness of the verdict.

(ETA to respond to your ETA, LOL. "When in Rome" is almost always a good practice. But I don't see how it's a relevant defense to claims of misconduct.)
 
Huh? You say people don't have a right to criticize, then you proceed to do so.

FWIW, I know the UK severely limits pre-verdict publicity. I have mixed feelings about that--as I'm sure you know, we allow more coverage on the premise that a free press is the best check on governmental excess, but I agree with you that trying the case "in the media" gets way out of hand here.

And I have no problem with your criticizing our judicial system when you find it unfair.

Perhaps more importantly to this discussion, one has to evaluate the fairness of the process in order to form an opinion on the correctness of the verdict.

The idea is so that the person gets a fair trial and arent judged on previous things they may have done or be charged with. And to be honest when i see what has happened in the Casey Anthony case...i think thats way way out of line and people say how did Amanda have a fair trial..well i dont see how Casey can because for the best part of a year nightly the case was splashed on Nancy Grace etc so how is any juror not going to know about whats been on the net or the tv or the papers etc?
 
The idea is so that the person gets a fair trial and arent judged on previous things they may have done or be charged with. And to be honest when i see what has happened in the Casey Anthony case...i think thats way way out of line and people say how did Amanda have a fair trial..well i dont see how Casey can because for the best part of a year nightly the case was splashed on Nancy Grace etc so how is any juror not going to know about whats been on the net or the tv or the papers etc?

I was on a jury a couple of years ago and I can attest to the adherence of judicial guidance. If anyone brought up something we couldn't consider we'd point it out and throw it aside.

The jurors in the OJ case sure did that.
 
I was on a jury a couple of years ago and I can attest to the adherence of judicial guidance. If anyone brought up something we couldn't consider we'd point it out and throw it aside.

The jurors in the OJ case sure did that.

Pft no comment to the Jury in the OJ case
 
Okay

Found another link to the email that Amanda sent to 23 of her friends and family 2 days after the murder.

Amanda Knox wrote:
This is an email for everyone, because id like to get it all out and
not have to repeat myself a hundred times like ive been having to do
at the police station. some of you already know some things, some of
you know nothing. what im about to say i cant say to journalists or
newspapers, and i require that of anone receiving this information as
well. this is m account of how i found my roommate murdered the
morning of friday, november 2nd.
The last time i saw meredith, 22, english, beautiful, funny, was when
i came home from spending the night at a friends house. It was the day
after halloween, thursday. I got home and she was still asleep, bu
after i had taken a shower and was fumbling around the kitchen she
emerged from her room with the blood of her costume (vampire) still
dripping down her chin. We talked for a while in the kitchen, how the
night went, what our plans were for the day. Nothing out of the
ordinary. then she went to take a shower and i began to start eating a
little while i waited for my friend (Raffaele-at whose house i stayed
over) to arrive at my house. He came right after i started eating and
he made himself some pasta. as we were eating together meredith came
out of the shower and grabbed some laundry or put some laundry in, one
or the other and returned into her room after saying hi to raffael.
after lunch i began to play guitar with raffael and meredith came out
of her room and went to the door. she said bye and left for the day.
it was the last time i saw her alive.
after a little while of playing guitar me and raffael went to his
house to watch movies and after to eat dinner and generally spend the
evening and night indoors. we didnt go out. the next morning i woke up
around 1030 and after grabbing my few things i left raffael's
appartment and walked the five minute walk back to my house to once
again take a shower and grab a chane of clothes. i also needed to grab
a mop because after dinner raffael had spilled a lot of water on the
floor of his kitchen by accident and didnt have a mop to clean it up.
so i arrived home and the first abnormal thing i noticed was the door
was wide open. here's the thingabout the door to our house: its
broken, in such a way that you have to use the keys to keep it closed.
if we dont have the door locked, it is really easy for the wond to
blow the door open, and so, my roommates and i always have the door
locked unless we are running really quickley to bring the garbage out
or to get something from the neighbors who live below us. (another
important piece of imformation: for those who dont know, i inhabit a
house of two stories, of which my three roommates and i share the
second story appartment. there are four italian guys of our age
between 22 and 26 who live below us. we are all wuite good friends and
we talk often. giacomo is especially welcome because he plays guitar
with me and laura, one of my roommates, and is, or was dating
meredith. the other three are marco, stefano, and ricardo.) anyway, so
the door was wide open. strange, yes, but not so strange that i really
thought anything about it. i assumed someone in the house was doing
exactly what i just said, taking out the trash or talking really
uickley to the neighbors downstairs. so i closed the door behind me
but i didnt lock it, assuming that the person who left the door open
would like to come back in. when i entered i called out if anyone was
there, but no one responded and i assumed that if anyone was there,
they were still asleep. lauras door was open which meant she wasnt
home, and filomenas door was also closed. my door was open like always
and meredith door was closed, which to me weant she was sleeping. i
undressed in my room and took a quick shower in one of the two
bathrooms in my house, the one that is right next to meredith and my
bedrooms (situated right next to one another). it was after i stepped
out of the shower and onto the mat that i noticed the blood in the
bathroom. it was on the mat i was using to dry my feet and there were
drops of blood in the sink. at first i thought the blood might have
come from my ears which i had pierced extrensively not too long ago,
but then immediately i know it wasnt mine becaus the stains on the mat
were too big for just droplets form my ear, and when i touched the
blood in the sink it was caked on already. there was also blood
smeered on the faucet. again, however, i thought it was strange,
because my roommates and i are very clean and we wouldnt leave blood
int he bathroom, but i assumed that perhaps meredith was having
menstral issues and hadnt cleaned up yet. ew, but nothing to worry
about. i left the bathroom and got dressed in my room. after i got
dressed i went to the other bathroom in my house, the one that
filomena dn laura use, and used their hairdryer to obviously dry my
hair and it was after i was putting back the dryer that i noticed the
**** that was left in the toilet, something that definately no one in
out house would do. i started feeling a little uncomfortable and so i
grabbed the mop from out closet and lef the house, closing and locking
the door that no one had come back through while i was in the shower,
and i returned to raffael's place. after we had used the mop to clean
up the kitchen i told raffael about what i had seen in the house over
breakfast. the strange blood in the bathroom, the door wide open, the
**** left in the toilet. he suggested i call one of my roommates, so i
called filomena. filomena had been at a party the night before with
her boyfriend marco (not the same marco who lives downstairs but we'll
call him marco-f as in filomena and the other can be marco-n as in
neighbor). she also told me that laura wasnt at home and hadnt been
because she was on business in rome. which meant the only one who had
spent the night at our house last night was meredith, and she was as
of yet unaccounted for. filomena seemed really worried, so i told her
id call meredith and then call her back. i called both of merediths
phones the english one first and last and the italian one between. the
first time i called the english phone is rang and then sounded as of
there was disturbance, but no one answered. i then calle the italian
phone and it just kept ringing, no answer. i called her english phone
again and this time an english voice told me her phone was out of
service. raffael and i gathered our things and went back to my house.
i unlocked the door and im going to tell this really slowly to get
everything right so just have patience with me. the living
room/kitchen was fine. looked perfectly normal. i was checking for
signs of our things missing, should there have been a burglar in our
house the night before. filomenas room was closed, but when i opned
the door her room and a mess and her window was open and completely
broken, but her computer was still sitting on her desk like it always
was and this confused me. convinced that we had been robbed i went to
lauras room and looked quickley in, but it was spottless, like it
hadnt even been touced. this too, i thought was odd. i then went into
the part of the house that meredith and i share and checked my room
for things missing, which there werent. then i knocked on merediths
room.
at first i thought she was alseep so i knocked gently, but when she
didnt respond i knocked louder and louder until i was really banging
on her door and shouting her name. no response. panicing, i ran out
onto our terrace to see if maybe i could see over the ledge into her
room from the window, but i couldnt see in. bad angle. i then went
into the bathroom where i had dried my hair and looked really quickley
into the toilet. in my panic i thought i hadnt seen anything there,
which to me meant whoever was in my house had been there when i had
been there. as it turns out the police told me later that the toilet
was full and that the **** had just fallen to the bottom of the
toilet, so i didnt see it. i ran outside and down to our neighbors
door. the lights were out but i banged ont he door anyway. i wanted to
ask them if they had heard anything the night before, but no one was
home. i ran back into the house. in the living room raffael told me he
wanted to see if he could break down merediths door. he tried, and
cracked the door, but we couldnt open it. it was then that we decided
to call the cops. there are two types of cops in italy, carbanieri
(local, dealing with traffic and domestic calls) and the police
investigaters. he first called his sister for advice and then called
the carbanieri. i then called filomna who said she would be on her way
home immediately. while we were waiting, two ununiformed police
investigaters came to our house. i showed them what i could and told
them what i knew. gave them ohone numbers and explained a bit in
broken italian, and then filomena arrived with her boyfriend marco-f
and two other friends of hers. all together we checked the houe out,
talked to the polie,a nd in a big they all opened merediths door.
i was in the kitchen stadning aside, having really done my part for
the situation. but when they opened merediths door and i heard
filomena scream "a foot! a foot!" in italian i immedaitely tried to
get to merediths room but raffael grabbed me and took me out of the
house. the police told everyone to get out and not long afterward the
carabinieri arrived and then soon afterward, more police
investigators. they took all of our informaton and asked us the same
questions over and over. at the time i had only what i was wearing and
my badg, which thankfully had my passport in it and my wallet. no
jacket though, and i was freezing. after sticking around at the housr
for a bit, the police told us to go to the station to give testimony,
which i did. i was in a room for six hours straight after that without
seeing anyone else, answering questions in italian for the first hour
and then they brought in an interpreter and he helped my out with the
details that i didnt know the words for. they asked me of course about
the the morning, the last time i saw her, and because i was the
closest to her, questions about her habits and her relationships.
afterward, when they were taking my fingerprints, i met two of
merediths english friends, two girls she goes out with, including the
lat one who saw her alive that night she was murdered. they also had
their prints taken. after that, this was around 9 at night by this
time, i was taken into the waiting room where there was various other
people who i all knew from varous places who all knew meredith. her
friends from england, my roommates, even the owner of the pub she most
frequented. after a while my neighbors were taken in too, having just
arived home from a weeklong vacation in their home town, which
eplained why they werent home when i banged on their door. later than
that another guy showed up and was taken in for questioning, a guy i
dont like but who both meredith and i knew from different occasions, a
morracan guy that i only know by his nickname amongst the girls
"shaky". then i sat around in this waiting room wthout having the
chance to leave or eat anything besides vending maschine food (whcih
gave me a hell of a stomache ache) until 530 in the morning. during
this time i received calls from a lot of different people, family
mostly of course, and i also talked with the rest. especially to find
out what exactly was in merediths room whent hey opened it. apparently
her body was laying under a sheet, and with her foot sticking out and
there was a lot of blood. whoever had did this had slit her throat.
they told me to be back in at 11am. i went home to raffael's place and
ate something substantial, and passed out.
in the morning raffael drove me bck to the police station but had to
leave me when they said they wantrd to take me back to the house for
quesioning. before i go on, id like to ssay that i was strictly told
not to speak about this, but im speaking with you people who are not
involved and who cant do anything bad except talk to journalists,
which i hope you wont do. i have to get this off my chest because its
pressing down on me and it helps to know that someone besides me knows
something, and that im not the one who knows the most out of everyone.
at the house they asked me very personal questions about meredith's
life and also about the personalities of our neighbors. how well did i
know them? pretty well, we are friends. was meredith sexually active?
yeah, she borrowed a few of my condoms. does she like anal? wtf? i
dont know. does she use vaseline? for her lips? what kind of person is
stefano? nice guy, has a really pretty girlfriend. hmmm...very
interesting....weìd like to how you something, and tell us if this is
out of normal.
tehy took me into the nieghbors house. the had breaken the door open
to get in, but they told me to ingonore that. the rooms were all open.
giacomo and marco-n's room was spotless which made since becaus the
guys had thoroughly cleaned the whole house before they left on
vacation. stefano's room however, well, his bed was strpped of linens,
which was odd, and the comfoter he used was shoved up at the top of
his bed, with blood on it. i obviously told then that the blood was
definatley out of normal and also that he usually has his bed made.
they took note of it and ussred me out. when i left the house to go
back to the police station they told me to put my jacket over my head
and duck down below the window so the reporters wouldnt try to talk to
me. at the station i just had to repeat the answers that i had givne
at the house do they could type them up and after a good 5 and a half
hour day with the police again raffael picked me up and took me out
for some well-deserved pizza. i was starving. i then bought some
underwear because as it turns out i wont be able to leave italy for a
while as well as enter my house. i only had the clothes i was wearing
the day it bagan, so i bought some underwear and borrwed a pair of
pants from raffael.
Spoke with my remaining roommates that night (last night) and it was a
hurricane of emotions and stress but we needed it anyway. What we have
been discussing is bascially what to do next. We are trying to keep
our heads on straight. First things first though, my roommates both
work for lawyers, and they are going to try to send a request through
on monday to retrieve important documents of ours that are still in
the house. Secondly, we are going to talk to the agency that we used
to find our house and obviously request to move out. It kind of sucks
that we have to pay the next months rent, but the owner has protection
within the contract. After that, I guess I'll go back to class on
monday, although im not sure what im going to do about people asking
me questions, because i really dont want to talk again about what
happened. Ive been talking an awful lot lately and im pretty tired of
it. After that, Its like im trying to remember what i was doing before
all this happened. I still need to figure out who i need to talk to
and what i need to do to continue studying in perugia, because its
what i want to do.
Anyway, thats the update, feeling okay, hope you all are well,
amanda

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39
Thanks for posting. I really don't see what the issue is with the email? Other then were the other roommates questioned?
 
I disagree. We all have that right but, IMO, it needs to be done carefully. Americans are getting the strained version of facts in most reporting and that's why they think the Italians suck. We only know what the media tells us.

This trials reporting has really opened my eyes to American bias in our press. I knew there was some but I didn't think it was this egregious!! :furious:

Thank God for the internet. I often wonder how I lived without it. If it wasn't for you, Isabella, and the means for us to communicate and easily obtain reporting on the internet I'd be stuck with the American reporting.

I'm old enough to remember life pre and post internet and man the internets great.

I remember calling it magical to a friend when I got my first internet hookup and he was explaining how it all worked. I was using dialup that took all day to load pages back then.

You know you're getting old when you use the following phrase; Kids today don't know how lucky they are.

HEY! HEY! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
rofl.gif

Steely Dan, you are a riot!
 
Of course i am why?

Because I am under the impression that the English paparazzi is as equal to or even worse than it is in the U.S. I could be wrong about my impression of course but it stems from the time of Princess Diana's death (I lived in Germany at the time) and all the press that followed for years. After that, English men would be on an American talk show, explaining how the reporters misrepresent stuff and hound the Royal Family similar to how our press hounds famous people. imo It's gotten worse in both countries since the death of Lady Di. She died while trying to escape the cameras in France.

We have mainstream papers in the U.S. and what we call "rags". Rags do print all kinds of garbage. I've probably purchased only two in my life years ago when I was much younger. A lot of people must buy them though because they are in business. The NE has gained some credibility over the past few years for uncovering stories that turn out to be true but half the stuff is still b.s. imo and why do they want/need to do this? Anyway, I was under the impression that tabloids were popular in England.
 
Right - which is why arguing that someone could not have committed a murder because the implied motive makes no sense is a path that goes nowhere.

It made no sense for Scott Peterson to kill Laci, but he did it anyway. I know that there are people that argue Scott could not have done it because it made no sense to do so, but that does not change the fact that he did it.

I don’t believe you have to have motive to have done a crime. Although, SP had motive. SP killed Lacy and Connor and I have no doubt about that. Amanda I have doubt about her involvement. I will leave it at that.
 
Thanks for posting. I really don't see what the issue is with the email? Other then were the other roommates questioned?

I guess the issue would be that it showed she lied and several times. And without any cops being around to "threaten her"/
 
My :twocents:

When I read the email I thought okay she wants to state her story to her peeps back home and organize in a chronological fashion how she remembers that day. She had just been grilled for hours and hours. Okay.

If I had been reading that before the verdict and before hearing a lot about the evidence I would have thought "sounds good to me" except the part about the mop (hinky). BUT WHEN I GOT TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH it so blatently lacked any emotion regarding losing her "friend" in such a violent fashion in the home they were sharing that I literally had a "huh?" moment. I thought, that is not right. Even if I had just been grilled and had felt I was heading down frame city, I would have expressed to my friends back home how horrified and sad and sorry I was that a roommate of mine had met her fate this way. I would not have flatly stated that I am trying to figure out how to resume my studies and find a new place to live as if it was all behind me. That was chilling I must say.
 
She ran out of time? who knows.

Btw someone said the guy who testified about the knife incident was arrested for drugs so maybe he shouldnt be believed..well..although i never have im well aware a LOT of people do take drugs especially cannabis and marijuana so does that mean they all shouldnt be believed? And on the same basis Knox and her BF had drugs that night so maybe anything they said shouldnt be believed?
I'm certainly not saying Knox et al should be believed. But that doesn't necessarily mean this witness can be believed, either. I can't find any info beyond the fact that he was arrested on drug charges, no idea whether it was a minor charge or something more serious/heavy duty or what. Just saying he doesn't give me the most credible impression from what little I can find. Some posters are saying Amanda brandished a knife at this witness as if it's proven fact. I certainly don't believe her about anything and think she's probably in this up to her eyeballs BUT that doesn't mean this guy is telling the truth or even that he might not be mistaken because he was drugged up himself. Who knows. All I could find was a mention that the judge (I think in Guede's trial) threw out the witness's statement as unreliable. Trying to find more info but no luck so far.

Right - which is why arguing that someone could not have committed a murder because the implied motive makes no sense is a path that goes nowhere.

It made no sense for Scott Peterson to kill Laci, but he did it anyway. I know that there are people that argue Scott could not have done it because it made no sense to do so, but that does not change the fact that he did it.

To me SP would have had more of a motive to kill Laci than AK/RS/RG did to kill Meredith. I think SP decided he didn't want to be married anymore and a divorce and baby were going to cost him money. He'd have to pay child support and perhaps alimony. No ex-wife + no child + no conscience = freedom for SP. Pretty good motive IMO unless I've missed something. With AK/RS/RG I just don't get it. I think they did it but not sure if it was some drug-addled frenzy or they are all just mean and sociopathic/evil and found someone who would be alone and defenseless for them to pick on.
 
Because I am under the impression that the English paparazzi is as equal to or even worse than it is in the U.S. I could be wrong about my impression of course but it stems from the time of Princess Diana's death (I lived in Germany at the time) and all the press that followed for years. After that, English men would be on an American talk show, explaining how the reporters misrepresent stuff and hound the Royal Family similar to how our press hounds famous people. imo It's gotten worse in both countries since the death of Lady Di. She died while trying to escape the cameras in France.

We have mainstream papers in the U.S. and what we call "rags". Rags do print all kinds of garbage. I've probably purchased only two in my life years ago when I was much younger. A lot of people must buy them though because they are in business. The NE has gained some credibility over the past few years for uncovering stories that turn out to be true but half the stuff is still b.s. imo and why do they want/need to do this? Anyway, I was under the impression that tabloids were popular in England.


The problem we have in this country is that people call the paps or have there agents to do it..and arrange for them to be at a certain place then when they arrive complain there being stalked etc. Likewise with Diana there were reports the papers would just happen to know where she was before she would go out. Whether true or not i dont know. As for her death..i dont know thats still a big talking point over here but she should have been wearing a seatbelt in any case.

Yes tabloids are popular here but ...there not like the Enquirer or Globe are there and for the most part i dont think our paparazzi are as bad as yours. I know several times ive been following stories on big events on TMZ and been shocked at some scenes they have shown because to me they was way to intrusive.
 
My :twocents:

When I read the email I thought okay she wants to state her story to her peeps back home and organize in a chronological fashion how she remembers that day. She had just been grilled for hours and hours. Okay.

If I had been reading that before the verdict and before hearing a lot about the evidence I would have thought "sounds good to me" except the part about the mop (hinky). BUT WHEN I GOT TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH it so blatently lacked any emotion regarding losing her "friend" in such a violent fashion in the home they were sharing that I literally had a "huh?" moment. I thought, that is not right. Even if I had just been grilled and had felt I was heading down frame city, I would have expressed to my friends back home how horrified and sad and sorry I was that a roommate of mine had met her fate this way. I would not have flatly stated that I am trying to figure out how to resume my studies and find a new place to live as if it was all behind me. That was chilling I must say.


Yeah! and her "well deserved pizza" WTH???????????
 
Yeah! and her "well deserved pizza" WTH???????????


In fairness maybe its hard work trying to remember the different versions of her lies that made her hungry.

Personally i dont think i would want a pizza for ages if my room house mate...my supposed friend got murdered.
 
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