Burke Ramsey Files 750 Million Dollar Lawsuit Against CBS

[Sherlockknows]

Edit: haha, nevermind Cranberry beat me to it!

Here you go, this is from Foreign Faction:

Thank God you weren't at Lindy Chamberlain's commission.

253 F. Supp. 2d 1323 (2003)
Robert Christian WOLF, Plaintiff,
v.
John Bennet RAMSEY and Patricia Paugh Ramsey, Defendants.
No. CIV.A.1:00-CV-1187-J.
United States District Court, N.D. Georgia, Atlanta Division.
March 31, 2003.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/253/1323/2567726/

"A neighbor who lived across the street from defendants' home, however, reported that she heard a scream during the early morning of December 26, 1996".

Does anyone know who the neighbour was, or what time they think they heard the scream? Maybe it doesn't prove anything either way, except the child who was attacked could have screamed before being hit, or maybe they became semi conscious while being strangled or sexually assaulted.

"Plaintiff notes that the fact JonBenet was "choked from behind" is consistent with the murder being committed by someone who knew JonBenet and did not want to look at her face as he or she killed her."

Interesting, if she was anyway conscious. I think a mother would not be able to look her daughter in the eye no matter how mad she was, whereas if B was or is as mad as people are suggesting why wouldn't he just strangle her from the front, why even make a device if you hated her as much as he supposedly did.




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[flourish]

Thank God you weren't at Lindy Chamberlain's commission.

Sbm

Why?
Are there dingos in Colorado now?

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Thank God you weren't at Lindy Chamberlain's commission.

253 F. Supp. 2d 1323 (2003)
Robert Christian WOLF, Plaintiff,
v.
John Bennet RAMSEY and Patricia Paugh Ramsey, Defendants.
No. CIV.A.1:00-CV-1187-J.
United States District Court, N.D. Georgia, Atlanta Division.
March 31, 2003.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/253/1323/2567726/

"A neighbor who lived across the street from defendants' home, however, reported that she heard a scream during the early morning of December 26, 1996".

Does anyone know who the neighbour was, or what time they think they heard the scream? Maybe it doesn't prove anything either way, except the child who was attacked could have screamed before being hit, or maybe they became semi conscious while being strangled or sexually assaulted.

"Plaintiff notes that the fact JonBenet was "choked from behind" is consistent with the murder being committed by someone who knew JonBenet and did not want to look at her face as he or she killed her."

Interesting, if she was anyway conscious. I think a mother would not be able to look her daughter in the eye no matter how mad she was, whereas if B was or is as mad as people are suggesting why wouldn't he just strangle her from the front, why even make a device if you hated her as much as he supposedly did.




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Haha, well hopefully this reply will be more timely. Foreign Faction again:

Investigators were initially told by Melody Stanton, who lived across the street and southeast of the Ramsey home, that she didn’t want to become involved in the investigation and reported that she had heard nothing unusual that night. During a follow-up canvass, Stanton appeared to be more willing to cooperate. She told detectives that she had gone to bed around 2200 hours on Christmas night. Her open bedroom window faced in the direction of the Ramsey home, and she thought she had heard a child scream sometime between the hours of midnight and 2: 00 a.m.
[snip]
For unknown reasons, however, she would later recant her statement, and it was a clue that only seemed to add to the confusion of the investigation.

This is from Steve Thomas's book:

When a detective interviewed her a second time, Stanton admitted that she had not told the truth earlier because she did not want to be involved in the case. She now claimed to have heard the piercing scream of a child between midnight and two o’clock on the morning of December 26.
[snip]
More than a year later we would discover that Stanton also told the detective, “It may not have been an audible scream but rather the negative energy radiating from JonBenét.”
The detective returned to that odd point several times during the interview, but Stanton never again mentioned the “negative energy.” She insisted that she heard an audible scream, so the detective did not include the “negative energy” comment in his report.

 

[kanzz]

Thank God you weren't at Lindy Chamberlain's commission.

253 F. Supp. 2d 1323 (2003)
Robert Christian WOLF, Plaintiff,
v.
John Bennet RAMSEY and Patricia Paugh Ramsey, Defendants.
No. CIV.A.1:00-CV-1187-J.
United States District Court, N.D. Georgia, Atlanta Division.
March 31, 2003.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/253/1323/2567726/

"A neighbor who lived across the street from defendants' home, however, reported that she heard a scream during the early morning of December 26, 1996".

Does anyone know who the neighbour was, or what time they think they heard the scream? Maybe it doesn't prove anything either way, except the child who was attacked could have screamed before being hit, or maybe they became semi conscious while being strangled or sexually assaulted.

"Plaintiff notes that the fact JonBenet was "choked from behind" is consistent with the murder being committed by someone who knew JonBenet and did not want to look at her face as he or she killed her."

Interesting, if she was anyway conscious. I think a mother would not be able to look her daughter in the eye no matter how mad she was, whereas if B was or is as mad as people are suggesting why wouldn't he just strangle her from the front, why even make a device if you hated her as much as he supposedly did.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh my. This attorney needed a legal nurse consultant to assist with this document.
"Plaintiff notes that the fact JonBenet was 'choked from behind' is consistent with the murder being committed by someone who knew JonBenet and did not want to look at her face as he or she killed her."

No, JonBenet was strangled from behind. Probably because: a) it's easier, and b) the murderer didn't want to look at JonBenet's face as she died (not vice versa).

 

[Sherlockknows]

Sbm

Why?
Are there dingos in Colorado now?

You finished your homework early then on to wiki. Very good. Gold star.


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[flourish]

You finished your homework early then on to wiki. Very good. Gold star.


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Not going to answer the question? K

 

[Sherlockknows]

A very good read. Video taped deposition of Christian Wolf. A transcript.

Either he is an incredible liar, or someone spent a lot of money trying to ruin his life with the help of a very bitter women's testimony. And now we have a lawsuit filed by B many years later.

http://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t349-chris-wolf


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[BBB167893]

I admit that, imo, NOTHING is more ludicrous than the 'intruder theory'. However, a lot of people believe that to be the truth as well.

True.

As for your second paragraph - if Patsy had walloped JBR and knocked her into unconsciousness - and Patsy had called 911 (as most parents would) then she wouldn't need to 'admit' anything.

At this time PR would not have known exactly what damage had been caused to her child's skull. Many people get knocked unconscious (due to sports injuries etc.) but recover after a while and are able to get on with their normal lives.

That's what I'm saying: when JB didn't come around, that's when it all went to hell. And it wasn't just knocked unconscious; Patsy HAD to have heard the skull break.

All she would have seen is her daughter lying unconscious on the floor. At that time PR would have had no idea that her daughter's head trauma could or would result in death.

Not immediately, maybe.

At the hospital she would simply had said that JBR must have fallen down the spiral staircase in the dark. (She would have placed her at the bottom of the stairs).

That's what they ALL say!

Surely the foremost thing in a parent's mind would be to get help for her child if it was at all possible?

You'd think so. But the Steinbergs left little Lisa to die on the floor, didn't they?

Would PR really have been standing there, hand on chin, weighing up what the chances would be if it should be discovered that SHE had caused JBR's injury?

That's quite an image, I admit. I don't think it happened that way.

I suspect PR would not have thought an autopsy would reveal anything other than a simple blow to the head which could have been explained away quite easily.

Ah, therein lies the rub. I suspect she KNEW it would reveal something else, the very reason why help couldn't be called.

Would she really (in those panic stricken moments) have been trying to decide whether it would be better to strangle her child - or simply risk people talking?

It might be more than that.

 

[BBB167893]

Sbm

Why?
Are there dingos in Colorado now?

LOL! Don't that bust your calluses!

 

[Miz Adventure]

Patsy HAD to have heard the skull break.

In my theory (of BDI) Patsy was upstairs packing, possibly on the top floor) when JBR's skull was crushed (in the basement) so she would have heard nothing.

Apart from the pineapple incident I believe it all happened in the basement. BR knocked JBR unconscious and then dragged her (by the collar of her shirt) from the train room to the outside of the wine cellar door. A while later, for warped reasons of his own, he decided to strangle her.

When PR went down to find out where the kids were she discovered the tragic scene. And hers could have been the scream the neighbour heard (if indeed there was a scream).

I will never accept that Patsy or John had anything to do with the strangulation of their daughter. The garrotte stick - possibly, but just as part of the staging.

 

[BBB167893]

In my theory (of BDI) Patsy was upstairs packing, possibly on the top floor) when JBR's skull was crushed (in the basement) so she would have heard nothing.

I'm saying if MY theory is correct, because she'd have been right there.

Apart from the pineapple incident I believe it all happened in the basement. BR knocked JBR unconscious and then dragged her (by the collar of her shirt) from the train room to the outside of the wine cellar door. A while later, for warped reasons of his own, he decided to strangle her.

When PR went down to find out where the kids were she discovered the tragic scene. And hers could have been the scream the neighbour heard (if indeed there was a scream).

I will never accept that Patsy or John had anything to do with the strangulation of their daughter. The garrotte stick - possibly, but just as part of the staging.

I guess we're at an impasse then.

 

[Miz Adventure]

I'm saying if MY theory is correct, because she'd have been right there.

I guess we're at an impasse then.

If you need any help with your revised theory (for when your book gets re-printed) just let me know. I won't even ask for any money.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I will never accept that Patsy or John had anything to do with the strangulation of their daughter. The garrotte stick - possibly, but just as part of the staging.

If someone came up with a plausible scenario explaining why Patsy - or John - whacked his or her 6 year old in the head with a flashlight (I can't see a weapon not being involved and the weapon that fits pretty much perfectly is the nice n' clean flashlight) and explain why one parent covered for the other in such a situation - up to and including living together with their minor son for the remainder of Patsy's life - I'd consider it. But so far, I've heard nothing convincing.

PDI/JDIs often gravitate to JBR being pushed or slammed into a fixed object. I understand why this is. The act of picking up a weapon to strike a small child in the head is a deliberate one. Despite the bizarre (Lin Wood planted, IMO) comment made by Dr. Phil about John using the flashlight to take BR to bed that night, there isn't any plausible reason for a parent to just happen to have a flashlight in his or her hand when JBR put him or her into a murderous rage. The parent would have had to stop, look around, get the flashlight, and intentionally hit her in the head. John and Patsy may have had their issues but they were not insane.

I know others believe John (or Patsy) hit her in the head intentionally to silence her whilst she was being sexually assaulted. But neither had a history before or after of physical or sexual child abuse and again, they had their issues but they weren't raving nuts. Intentionally whacking your child in the head with a heavy weapon for whatever reason is insane and (normally) not something anyone would ever get away with.

So just sticking with the head strike for now and knowing that the only other person nearby was a somewhat odd boy who almost certainly deeply resented his center-of-attention little sister, I'm left with only one logical conclusion. Kids that age are obviously not as rational as adults and lack an adult's impulse control. He is the only one with the means, the motive (a big one that's lacking with the parents) and the opportunity.

As for the strangulation, there is no reason why he couldn't have done that on his own as well. He may have even previously made the toggle device for an innocent reason using Boy Scout survival instruction and had it handy in his train room. My guess is he didn't do any whittling that night.

 

[Miz Adventure]

The parents didn't whack JBR with anything, not in my theory anyway.

All the parents were guilty of was covering up the murder scene because they wanted to save their son from being institutionalized.

The person who gave JBR that whack on the head also strangled her to death. How could it be otherwise? The parents are hardly likely to put a ligature around their beloved child's neck and pull it tight, are they? Just because they found her unconscious (with no visible signs of head trauma). And, as we know, she would still have been alive at that time.

Are we really to believe they were some kind of unfeeling monsters?

A head blow could probably have been explained away, especially by such a high profile and well respected couple. They had the best lawyers after all. It would be a simple 'accident'.

However, out of the three people left alive there IS one person that I can imagine putting that ligature around the neck of JBR and pulling it tight. We may never know the reasons why he did it; that's one for the psychologists amongst us.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The parents didn't whack JBR with anything, not in my theory anyway.

All the parents were guilty of was covering up the murder scene because they wanted to save their son from being institutionalized.

The person who gave JBR that whack on the head also strangled her to death. How could it be otherwise? The parents are hardly likely to put a ligature around their beloved child's neck and pull it tight, are they? Just because they found her unconscious (with no visible signs of head trauma). And, as we know, she would still have been alive at that time.

Are we really to believe they were some kind of unfeeling monsters?

A head blow could probably have been explained away, especially by such a high profile and well respected couple. They had the best lawyers after all. It would be a simple 'accident'.

However, out of the three people left alive there IS one person that I can imagine putting that ligature around the neck of JBR and pulling it tight. We may never know the reasons why he did it; that's one for the psychologists amongst us.

I don't have a personal theory behind peeling back the layers of the onion, and for all I know the Ramseys were unfeeling monsters. Probably not, all indications are that they were not, but we didn't know them.

I'm just boiling down the old "means, motive, and opportunity".

All three surviving family members had the means and the opportunity.

For those who think Patsy hit JonBenet in the head, what was her motive?

For those who think John hit JonBenet in the head, what was his motive?

And rich or not, neither John nor Patsy could have reasonably thought they could just bash their 6 year old in the head and get away with it. A not quite 10 year old would be far, far less likely to consider consequences.

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

I don't think Patsy or John caused the blow either. I can definitely see Burke causing it though, not meaning to hurt her as bad as he did. I also think he did the strangling, but I really struggle with this. He was only 9 (almost 10) after all. That's a lot of anger to harbour. I totally buy the theory of Burke eating the bowl of pineapple and JB coming downstairs (POSSIBLY waking up from wetting her bed and looking for her mum to help her get changed), stealing a piece of pineapple and Burke hits her over the head. It would make sense that the flashlight would be near by IF Burke DID take the flashlight down the basement to play with toys like he said he did on the Dr Phil show (and bringing it back up with him to make himself the pineapple snack). Hmmm....

My kids fight with eachother daily, but it's more hitting and shoving. They have never actually hit eachother with an object. And I don't know if it's worth mentioning or not, but for as long as I can remember, time to time they will tie a string or something around their toys necks to swing them around so they can 'fly'. It freaks me out when I find barbie dolls or their teddy bears with a 'noose' so tightly tied around their necks.

 

[sedndun]

The only blow to the head that I can think of that may not involve a weapon/object would be from a fall. But knocking her down in the bathroom and hitting the toilet or tub doesn't seem like it would create the needed impact. Even if she was grabbed and pushed into something, it doesn't seem like the angle could ever be right for the wound to hit where it did. Stairs have been mentioned, but tumbling would leave bruises. The only thing I can picture possibly resulting in the fracture seen would be if JonBenet was running upstairs on the spiral staircase, gets grabbed by the collar when up at the fourth rung. At that spot she would be turned nearly sideways from her attacker. The triangular neck bruise has often been thought to be from her collar being pulled and this would explain the angle and side (left) that mark appears on. If forcefully pulled back (and down) from that spot, she may go clear off her feet, past all the steps, and impact the hard floor with her head at the side (right) and angle seen in the skull fracture. With her head having taken the blow, her body may have not bruised as it then fell the rest of the way.
I know both the collar pull and falling from the spiral (or basement) staircase have been mentioned before, but I'm not sure I had seen them both tied together as I've just explained. If anyone has gone into this in better detail, please direct me there. Again, I'm not saying this is the best theory for the blow to the head, but I've been trying to think what else could possibly create that fracture.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I don't think Patsy or John caused the blow either. I can definitely see Burke causing it though, not meaning to hurt her as bad as he did. I also think he did the strangling, but I really struggle with this. He was only 9 (almost 10) after all. That's a lot of anger to harbour. I totally buy the theory of Burke eating the bowl of pineapple and JB coming downstairs (POSSIBLY waking up from wetting her bed and looking for her mum to help her get changed), stealing a piece of pineapple and Burke hits her over the head. It would make sense that the flashlight would be near by IF Burke DID take the flashlight down the basement to play with toys like he said he did on the Dr Phil show (and bringing it back up with him to make himself the pineapple snack). Hmmm....

A couple of points of clarification. Burke has never said he brought a flashlight anywhere. Dr. Phil said (slightly paraphrasing) "It's been said your father brought up a flashlight to bring you to bed that night" and Burke never confirmed or denied this. I believe Phil was asked to bring this up by the Ramseys' attorney because he feared the upcoming CBS show would focus on the flashlight and perhaps a DNA finding. Didn't happen, but Attorney Wood may have wanted that base well covered.

JonBenet did not wet her bed that night. A urine stain was however found on the carpet in the basement, outside of the room in which her body was found.

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Miz Adventure]

The book by ST was the one one I read about the case.

It's always tempting to believe what we initially read about a case, especially when it's written by one of the lead detectives on the case.

So, for quite a while I was going along with his theory. I discounted BR as having any part in things because I knew he had been eliminated from the enquiry, and cleared. That just left the parents. I could tell there had been no intruder.

I assumed ST was correct - that PR had 'snapped' and pushed JBR so hard that it fractured her skull. However, it never sat right with me that PR then strangled her daughter. That was the part that stuck in my craw (whatever that is). And the strangulation came so long after the head blow - that was another puzzling aspect.

Also I found it hard to accept that the R's would not be able to explain away the head blow by saying it had been an accident.

However, that is what ST said, and that is what I believed. Until fairly recently when I started reading other books and internet information.

BR started looking like a very viable suspect - imo far more viable than the parents. It all fit together nicely - the head blow, the strangulation etc.

Then there was that inverview with Dr. Phil, which I think clinched it for me.