Burke Ramsey Files 750 Million Dollar Lawsuit Against CBS

[Miz Adventure]

. I believe the lady heads the scream. Why would she lie? However some people think she is lying to fit their own theory which is fine.


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I seem to recall ST stating that the lady who thought she heard the scream later recanted and said that the scream could have been coming from inside her own head (or something like that) I got the impression ST thought she was given to flights of fancy.

I would say that a child will always struggle if a stranger tries to touch them. It's only adults that know to keep schtum when they see their assailant has a knife.

JBR wouldn't have been in any position to scream once she had received the head blow.

 

[Sherlockknows]

I seem to recall ST stating that the lady who thought she heard the scream later recanted and said that the scream could have been coming from inside her own head (or something like that) I got the impression ST thought she was given to flights of fancy.

I would say that a child will always struggle if a stranger tries to touch them. It's only adults that know to keep schtum when they see their assailant has a knife.

JBR wouldn't have been in any position to scream once she had received the head blow.

The scream was said to be heard. I believe she recanted maybe out of loyalty to the Ramsey's I don't know. However she did return to her original position. I don't believe she was lying the first time she said it.

I don't believe she screamed after the head blow. I believe she screamed after being assaulted or on the raising of a weapon screamed just before she was hit.

When you see a knife, or a gun, or any weapon as a child you don't act up. Unless you are slightly touched and think it's funny, then you help as a child.


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[ZoriahNZ]

John Ramsey said the suitcase was not in that area of the basement before, suggesting that someone moved it there. In addition, if the suitcase had been under the window for a long time, dust and debris would have collected on it. But little was there. Unless it had been moved there. Fleet moving it for glass means it was near the window. A pea-size piece of glass was found on top of the suitcase, within what might be a partial footprint. Smit surmises the glass may have come off the intruder's shoe as he stepped on the suitcase to get out. However, police have said privately that what looks like a footprint on the suitcase isn't a footprint. A young girl's footprint in Long John's perhaps?


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BBM

But there is no visual evidence of a footprint of any kind on the suitcase, imo. At least not on the official crime scene video released by RadarOnline. The camera specifically zooms in on the tiny shard of glass on top of it. Check from the 9.00 timestamp for yourself to see how close it focuses in.

http://radaronline.com/videos/jonbenet-ramsey-murder-scene-video-camera-footage/

You can even see the grainy texture of the case which seems to be faux leather. Don't know where Smit got his partial footprint theory from based on the evidence, unless there's a higher quality crime scene photo floating about that we haven't seen.

Got a link to support this line of speculation?

 

[questfortrue]

I don't have a personal theory behind peeling back the layers of the onion, and for all I know the Ramseys were unfeeling monsters. Probably not, all indications are that they were not, but we didn't know them.

I'm just boiling down the old "means, motive, and opportunity".

All three surviving family members had the means and the opportunity.

For those who think Patsy hit JonBenet in the head, what was her motive?

For those who think John hit JonBenet in the head, what was his motive?

And rich or not, neither John nor Patsy could have reasonably thought they could just bash their 6 year old in the head and get away with it. A not quite 10 year old would be far, far less likely to consider consequences.

HarmonyE,
Like you I have made attempts to peel back the layers. As Mark Beckner once said, there is no smoking gun. BR rose to the top of my list of 3 after Kolar's book and his appearance, but I don’t know that his Dr. P interview gave me much except to note his pineapple stumbling, his lack of appropriate affect and his departure from statements he’d previously made. (Both parents varied their explanations too, so in that regard, he is a chip off the old block.) But since you wondered about motives within the JDI and PDI theories, I had a couple of comments to add.


JDI theorists haven’t been present on the forum for some time. The former poster DocG has his own blog or forum, and there are a number of posters on his forum who believe his interpretation, that JR wrote the note and had been ‘gaslighting’ Patsy for so long, that he thought he could control the situation. However, she found his note and called 911. I don’t personally agree with his theory. But there once was someone, Ann Rule, who had an interesting derivative of his JDI theory.

Ann Rule, famous true crime author (acquaintance of psychopath Ted Bundy), chose not to become involved in writing about the case for a couple of reasons. The primary reason was that she believed these high profile cases are rarely successfully taken to court and prosecuted. When pressed on a theory she stated she believed JR had been molesting his daughter and that JB was beginning to talk, or had begun to show signs to the outside world that she was being molested. In Rule’s theory, JR was responsible, and PR helped cover it up writing the RN.

Btw, for any of these family involvement theories, I’ve researched a bevy of women who chose the action of cover-up or concealment of family secrets/crimes, and it’s more common than one would think. Regardless of the various theories here, it seems the old saying that one can’t tell a book by its cover has to be a truism begun in the annals of family secrets.

 

[flourish]

HarmonyE,
Like you I have made attempts to peel back the layers. As Mark Beckner once said, there is no smoking gun. BR rose to the top of my list of 3 after Kolar's book and his appearance, but I don’t know that his Dr. P interview gave me much except to note his pineapple stumbling, his lack of appropriate affect and his departure from statements he’d previously made. (Both parents varied their explanations too, so in that regard, he is a chip off the old block.) But since you wondered about motives within the JDI and PDI theories, I had a couple of comments to add.


JDI theorists haven’t been present on the forum for some time. The former poster DocG has his own blog or forum, and there are a number of posters on his forum who believe his interpretation, that JR wrote the note and had been ‘gaslighting’ Patsy for so long, that he thought he could control the situation. However, she found his note and called 911. I don’t personally agree with his theory. But there once was someone, Ann Rule, who had an interesting derivative of his JDI theory.

Ann Rule, famous true crime author (acquaintance of psychopath Ted Bundy), chose not to become involved in writing about the case for a couple of reasons. The primary reason was that she believed these high profile cases are rarely successfully taken to court and prosecuted. When pressed on a theory she stated she believed JR had been molesting his daughter and that JB was beginning to talk, or had begun to show signs to the outside world that she was being molested. In Rule’s theory, JR was responsible, and PR helped cover it up writing the RN.

Btw, for any of these family involvement theories, I’ve researched a bevy of women who chose the action of cover-up or concealment of family secrets/crimes, and it’s more common than one would think. Regardless of the various theories here, it seems the old saying that one can’t tell a book by its cover has to be a truism begun in the annals of family secrets.



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Interesting. Can you identify the women in the photos, though?

Then there is Karla Homolka. Ugh. Not the same thing exactly but awful nonetheless.
Thanks

 

[kanzz]

Not quiet what I said but what I did say early in the piece is he had the knife. She wasn't going to struggle if he had the knife. Nothing happened till she was abused then he hit for screaming. I believe the lady heads the scream. Why would she lie? However some people think she is lying to fit their own theory which is fine.

Regarding the glass. You have just proved my point. You found it a few days later. Not months and you are always looking as a parent till you hoover or find ever piece. What is being said here by people is he broke it months before, the house keeper knew about it and did nothing, the cobwebs weren't disturbed and there was no glass or any print on the suitcase. The suitcase was never moved. I am sorry but I can't believe if the suitcase was in a room, supposedly never cleaned it wouldn't have the kind of dust the cobweb had.


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BBM
You are stating things as fact that are not facts.
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-window-grate.htm

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I seem to recall ST stating that the lady who thought she heard the scream later recanted and said that the scream could have been coming from inside her own head (or something like that) I got the impression ST thought she was given to flights of fancy.

I would say that a child will always struggle if a stranger tries to touch them. It's only adults that know to keep schtum when they see their assailant has a knife.

JBR wouldn't have been in any position to scream once she had received the head blow.

Here's what Thomas had to say:

In a few days another neighbor, Melody Stanton, who lived at 738 Fifteenth Street, diagonally across from the Ramsey home, also changed her original story, which was that she had not noticed anything unusual on the night JonBenét died. When a detective interviewed her a second time, Stanton admitted that she had not told the truth earlier because she did not want to be involved in the case. She now claimed to have heard the piercing scream of a child between midnight and two o’clock on the morning of December 26. If that cry came from JonBenét, it would help determine the time of death. If a neighbor clear across the street heard the scream, I wondered how anyone in the house could not have heard it. Her story, which seemed to be a clear piece of evidence, contained its own seed of destruction, however. More than a year later we would discover that Stanton also told the detective, “It may not have been an audible scream but rather the negative energy radiating from JonBenét.” The detective returned to that odd point several times during the interview, but Stanton never again mentioned the “negative energy.” She insisted that she heard an audible scream, so the detective did not include the “negative energy” comment in his report. A year later he was ordered to write an amended report. Changing a report is a huge issue for police since it brings the validity of the entire statement into question. His revised report was not the first, and it would not be the last, that would enter the Ramsey case file.

IMO ST seems ambivalent, as am I. I won't discount it because she "insisted" it was audible and she did feel compelled to wake up her husband over it. But her inconsistent statements make her unreliable.

He definitely thought it was possible, the detectives tested out the possibility it happened. Here's another quote:

One night we tried to figure out if the parents could have heard JonBenét scream. While some of us stayed in the master suite, Detective Gosage tiptoed through the dark house, then shouted. His shout was clearly audible to me, but Trip DeMuth said it was difficult to hear. We could even hear a shout from the basement, although our intruder theorists could not. But we all agreed that Melody Stanton, the neighbor who claimed to have heard a scream, “obviously that of a child,” on Christmas night, could have done so. I wanted to go over and talk to her right then and dig deeper into her story, but Deputy DA DeMuth refused, putting a blockade between police and Melody Stanton. He said he planned to “prep her” before trial. DeMuth didn’t explain his reasons to mere police officers and detectives. I could not fathom why a prosecutor would intentionally stop us from talking to her. Such a thing had never happened before in any investigation I was involved in, but with a wave of his hand—poof!—DeMuth sealed off an important avenue of investigation from the investigators.

Here's Kolar on the reasoning behind why she could have heard a scream:

A partially open, street-facing, basement window was thought to have been responsible for Stanton’s ability to hear a scream emanating from the basement. An electrical cord had been run through this window over the Christmas holidays to provide power for the decorations displayed on the front lawn of the residence. This window was of insufficient size to have permitted anyone to have entered or exited the home from this location.

 

[questfortrue]

Interesting. Can you identify the women in the photos, though?

Then there is Karla Homolka. Ugh. Not the same thing exactly but awful nonetheless.
Thanks

I'll let you reason out the first one, married to a comedian who's been accused of drugging and raping many women.
The second photo features a social affair with the parents of Marilyn VanDerbur Atler. She had once been retained by BPD to discuss the issue of molestation within a family. Her parents were wealthy and very socially prominent.
The third is the woman married to the man from Penn State, convicted and sentenced to prison for several crimes against children.

Imo, all of these photos visually depict lovely people.

Yes, Karla Holmoka and Nancy Garrido are in a different category.

 

[Sherlockknows]

BBM
You are stating things as fact that are not facts.
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-window-grate.htm

I am not saying the Suitcase was never moved. Reread. In relation to your theory of one of three people killed someone, this doesn't give you and adults chance to say someone else's theory is wrong based on your opinion.

Either do what everyone else has done. Put your theory of what happened down, put a timeline to it, put a reason behind it, or stop trolling my answers to other people.


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[CoreyRocks]

I am not saying the Suitcase was never moved. Reread. In relation to your theory of one of three people killed someone, this doesn't give you and adults chance to say someone else's theory is wrong based on your opinion.

Either do what everyone else has done. Put your theory of what happened down, put a timeline to it, put a reason behind it, or stop trolling my answers to other people.


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Kanzz is NOT a troll.

 

[Sherlockknows]

Here's what Thomas had to say:

IMO ST seems ambivalent, as am I. I won't discount it because she "insisted" it was audible and she did feel compelled to wake up her husband over it. But her inconsistent statements make her unreliable.

He definitely thought it was possible, the detectives tested out the possibility it happened. Here's another quote:


Here's Kolar on the reasoning behind why she could have heard a scream:

Sounds like officers believed she could have heard a scream then, but were unable to go forward. It's important because it would put her in the basement alive, nit yet hit over the head, after 12.


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[BoldBear]

The older boiler systems required a lot of outside air. That's why there's a large pipe in window. It's just a big opening to the outside. If that ever starts to get blocked, it can choke the boiler system. That causes a lot of black soot to build-up which is very dangerous. Black soot is basically unspent fuel.

Basically put, there would be no barrier to the outside other than a mesh screen connected somewhere to that duct pipe.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If the Ramseys lived in a Trailer Park. Then their butts would have been prosecuted and sentenced 20 years ago. Jmo.

Justice isn't blind.

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

If the Ramseys lived in a Trailer Park. Then their butts would have been prosecuted and sentenced 20 years ago. Jmo.

Justice isn't blind.

I totally agree.

The BPD were told to treat them like victims instead of suspects because they were 'influential people'. Are you kidding me. Really wouldn't surprise me if someone slipped some money under the table.

 

[andreww]

The scream was said to be heard. I believe she recanted maybe out of loyalty to the Ramsey's I don't know. However she did return to her original position. I don't believe she was lying the first time she said it.

I don't believe she screamed after the head blow. I believe she screamed after being assaulted or on the raising of a weapon screamed just before she was hit.

When you see a knife, or a gun, or any weapon as a child you don't act up. Unless you are slightly touched and think it's funny, then you help as a child.


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And let's not forget that Ramsey attorneys were also visiting neighbours very early on.


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[Miz Adventure]

The scream was said to be heard. I believe she recanted maybe out of loyalty to the Ramsey's I don't know. However she did return to her original position. I don't believe she was lying the first time she said it.

I don't believe she screamed after the head blow. I believe she screamed after being assaulted or on the raising of a weapon screamed just before she was hit.

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So you don't think that with all this screaming going on that Burke or his parents wouldn't have woken up and gone to see what was going on?

When you see a knife, or a gun, or any weapon as a child you don't act up. Unless you are slightly touched and think it's funny, then you help as a child.

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You are speaking as though you are an authority on this. Are you? Or would this simply be your opinion on how you think a child would behave?

 

[Miz Adventure]

And getting back to the scream, I suspect the only scream (if indeed there was a scream) was from Patsy when she discovered the horrifying sight of her daughter lying strangled.

 

[andreww]

And getting back to the scream, I suspect the only scream (if indeed there was a scream) was from Patsy when she discovered the horrifying sight of her daughter lying strangled.

Maybe, but I see it a little differently. I feel the scream came from JB when she was violated with the paintbrush at which point she was cracked over the skull with the flashlight. The missing tip may have been discarded as it may have had blood on it. The remainder used to fashion the garrotte.

 

[Miz Adventure]

There is no evidence that JBR was violated sexually. The autopsy report states that 'foreign bifringement material', i.e. microscopic pieces of wood, was found in her vagina and that could have been the result of the wiping. I understand there were tiny fragments of (whittled) paintbrush handle lying around on the floor of the basement.

JBR would not have had anything sexual done to her without her making a fuss. I believe Patsy had not gone to bed that night but was busy packing for the trip the next day. Don't you not think she would have heard something if her daughter was being 'violated'?

 

[flourish]

I am not saying the Suitcase was never moved. Reread. In relation to your theory of one of three people killed someone, this doesn't give you and adults chance to say someone else's theory is wrong based on your opinion.

Either do what everyone else has done. Put your theory of what happened down, put a timeline to it, put a reason behind it, or stop trolling my answers to other people.


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