By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[madeleine]

If it was an intruder, why would they have left her in her blanket as if tucking her in? Another thought about the circumstances....

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we don't know if she was tucked in it.. the only person claiming that is JR

 

[vlprn71]

"Burke did it. 100%."

IN MY OPINION.

 

[vlprn71]

Burke did it. 100%. In my opinion.

 

[Heymom]

Burke. I think he remembers every minute of that night too and smiles at the memories.

This is chilling to consider, but watching him on camera, both after his sister's murder and now, I have to say that he looks most of all like "the cat that ate the canary." As if, "yeah, I did it and I'm not sorry and I'll never be sorry."

 

[CircuitGuy]

I always rejected BDI because I don't believe more than one police officer would conspire to cover up the case just because the perpetrator was too young to be charged.

After the CBS show, I'm more open to BDI. I still don't think the police and DA would conspire to cover it up, but that doesn't mean Burke is innocent.

Until the show I thought PR did it because of the bed wetting, which in PR's mind represented a disgusting sign of JR molesting JBR. I imagined she hit JBR over the head with something in a violent outburst related to this. JR agreed to help cover it up to avoid a public discussion of these facts. BR knew something of what happened but was used to keeping secrets. PR was still mad at JR, so the coverup looks bizarre and poorly planned. It worked only because they got lucky and they had wealth. It was not because they put subtle ingenious hints in the note and staging that successfully confused the police. They just slapped something together and got very lucky.

The show, though, has me thinking. I have a 6 y/o daughter and older son. My kids are smart, but they sometimes do stupid things, things like running with a sharp knife, when they're not thinking.. I could see them swinging a heavy object in anger, not realizing it will hit much harder than just a fist would. It's obvious to an adult, but not to a 9 y/o. So I could see BR killing her by accident. It's hard to imagine, but maybe that happened and JR and BR decided to cover it up.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The motive behind Burkes whacking her in the head is irrelevant. Intent at that moment is irrelevant. The fact remained he did not immediately seek help for JonBenet.
The only scenario that makes sense is the way Patsy discovered her. My guess it was without the long johns & evidence of assault. The paint brush handle still inserted. I would imagine wanting to cover up that. Especially considering I believe they had prior knowledge he was sexually inappropriate with her.


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[Linda7NJ]

Didn't one version from John Ramsey have him claiming to have read her a bedtime story?



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[jjkkaa]

I'm thinking Burke hit JBR on the head, applied the garrote, and poked her with the train tracks. Why? I don't expect to be able to sort through the motives of a child with "issues". But I'm thinking he was in a rage. But, since so many are speculating, perhaps the garrote was meant as a tourniquet and Burke was just "being a boyscout."

(Last night Kolar mentioned something about being unhappy with his Christmas presents - what was that all about)

I wondered if after he hit her and poked her with the train tracks - he eventually tried to apply a tourniquet thinking it would help her not realizing he was strangling her. Were boys his age taught about tourniquets in boy scouts in he90s?

 

[reintarnation]

Didn't one version from John Ramsey have him claiming to have read her a bedtime story?

One officer at the scene 12/25/96 reported that JR said this, but JR has always denied it.

The statement he made was something along the lines of 'I took JBR to bed, read, and then went to bed myself' (not a quote, paraphrasing). It was that officer's impression JR meant that he took JBR to bed and read to her, then he went to bed, but it could also be construed as he took her to bed, then went to his room and read to himself before going to sleep. I believe the exact wording is in Thomas's or Kolar's book, if someone has that handy and searchable and could quote it.

The consensus is that it's not concrete enough to really argue one way or another. If it was a slip up on JR's part, then it's just one of many indicators that they lied about JBR falling asleep in the car and never waking up.

 

[reintarnation]

The paint brush handle still inserted.

I am still a little confused about the findings on the CBS program regarding this point. They seemed confident in stating that the cellulose found in her vagina was microscopic and could have arrived there innocently. I saw another poster speculate that it could have come from toilet paper?

What I'd like to know is if the cellulose was ever tested against the paintbrush to forensically determine if it came from the paintbrush. Does anyone know if this was ever done? Is this part of how the experts on CBS stated so definitively that a sexual assault did not occur that night that we just didn't see? Is this part of the case evidence that remains confidential?

Otherwise my knowledge of it is that the cellulose was assumed to come from the paintbrush because (1) the autopsy report revealed vaginal trauma, (2) the trauma was caused by something stiff and small, and (3) the paintbrush had been broken into three pieces yet only two pieces were recovered. However, if that test hasn't been done, then the paintbrush assault remains a theory yet to be proven.

When they (briefly) discussed this on the show, I think that, more than anything, changed the game. If we take an assault with the paintbrush out of the equation, then we don't have to believe that either Burke was molesting his sister or that JR or PR did that to their daughter as part of the staging. IMO, this is critical for at least three reasons:
(1) It conclusively disproves the idea that this was committed by a pedophile and all the crazy IDI theories that go with that.
(2) It further supports the theory that JBR's death was accidental as opposed to premeditated.
(3) It makes RDI theories all the more plausible because you don't have to believe that at least one of them was a sexual deviant or were sick enough to stage a sexual assault.

I should probably state that I am one of the few who aren't sold on the idea that JBR was being molested or was ever sexually assaulted. I know it's a sad fact of reality that this happens, and that experts on incest have found enough reasons to consider the idea plausible or even likely. But the forensic basis for sexual theories comes from interpretation of the wording of the autopsy report, and I've not seen a strong enough scientific argument one way or another on it to convince me that it definitely did or didn't happen. I also think that our perception of JBR and how her family treated her was tinged by such heavy media coverage of her beauty pageant life and the assumptions (right or wrong) that we make about people who get their daughters involved in that at a young age.

Again, this is where having her medical records could be so helpful!

 

[LinasK]

Could be the reason why they left the abuse out . Was disappointed but I undertstand. It IS important though since someone took the time to wipe off her body and redress her.

Is this why everyone on Facebook is insisting there was no sexual abuse, when we all know there was evidence of it years ago???
(I refused to watch any of the recent shows, just as I refused to watch the re-dramatization of OJ).

 

[LinasK]

we don't know if she was tucked in it.. the only person claiming that is JR

We do know that Patsy drew a little red heart on her palm. Not likely an intruder would go to the trouble of wiping her down and redressing her.

 

[LinasK]

The motive behind Burkes whacking her in the head is irrelevant. Intent at that moment is irrelevant. The fact remained he did not immediately seek help for JonBenet.
The only scenario that makes sense is the way Patsy discovered her. My guess it was without the long johns & evidence of assault. The paint brush handle still inserted. I would imagine wanting to cover up that. Especially considering I believe they had prior knowledge he was sexually inappropriate with her.


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But how is everyone so sure it was Burke sexually assaulting her and not John?? It was the shirt fibers from John's expensive, custom-made Israeli shirt that were found in JB's panties. Laundry doesn't cover it for an explanation for that.

 

[LinasK]

I am still a little confused about the findings on the CBS program regarding this point. They seemed confident in stating that the cellulose found in her vagina was microscopic and could have arrived there innocently. I saw another poster speculate that it could have come from toilet paper?

What I'd like to know is if the cellulose was ever tested against the paintbrush to forensically determine if it came from the paintbrush. Does anyone know if this was ever done? Is this part of how the experts on CBS stated so definitively that a sexual assault did not occur that night that we just didn't see? Is this part of the case evidence that remains confidential?

Otherwise my knowledge of it is that the cellulose was assumed to come from the paintbrush because the autopsy report also revealed vaginal trauma and the paintbrush had been broken into three pieces yet one two pieces were recovered. If that test hasn't been done, then the paintbrush assault remains speculation.

When they said that on the show, I think that, more than anything, changed the game. If we take an assault with the paintbrush out of the equation, then we don't have to believe that either Burke was molesting his sister or that JR or PR did that to their daughter as part of the staging.

I should probably state that I am one of the few who aren't sold on the idea that JBR was being molested or was ever sexually assaulted. The basis for that comes from interpretation of the wording of the autopsy report, and I've not seen a strong enough scientific argument one way or another on it to convince me that it definitely did or didn't happen. Again, this is where having her medical records could be so helpful!

Her pediatrician(can't remember his name) saw previous signs of vaginal trauma, but covered it up. All her problems with bedwetting and soiling may be attributed to it, but Patsy claimed it was irritation from bubble bath.

 

[Heymom]

Her hymen was eroded and retracted. That doesn't happen without some form of penetration. Not traumatized enough to suggest penile penetration, but all the experts agreed she'd been at least digitally penetrated. This is discussed at length in Kolar's book.

 

[johnjay]

This is chilling to consider, but watching him on camera, both after his sister's murder and now, I have to say that he looks most of all like "the cat that ate the canary." As if, "yeah, I did it and I'm not sorry and I'll never be sorry."

He sure does know how to look guilty.

 

[Heymom]

He sure does know how to look guilty.

But not "caught." More like, "Gee, I'm still happy about this."

 

[reintarnation]

Her hymen was eroded and retracted. That doesn't happen without some form of penetration. Not traumatized enough to suggest penile penetration, but all the experts agreed she'd been at least digitally penetrated. This is discussed at length in Kolar's book.

Yes, and agreed. But it is not universally accepted that the penetration was sexually motivated. Nor is it agreed that the penetration had to be digital - it could have also been caused by douching or suppositories used in vaginitis treatments.

My point here is that I keep the possibility of sexual assault and molestation open in my mind, but there is enough doubt out there to keep me from thinking that it is the only explanation for her prior injury(ies). The conclusion from the CBS documentary that there is no forensic evidence of a sexual assault occurring that night, despite what we've believed for years, leads me even further away from the sexual assault aspect of this case, at least in respect to it having something to do with JBR's death.

 

[grammajama]

Has there ever been any other case where an accident occurred and family tried to cover it up as a murder? The only time I can recall is the defense in Casey Anthony case, which i thought was insane.. no one covers up an accident..but now it seems the same idea is being offered as a theory in JonBenet's murder.
Another reason, I am having trouble with the accident theory is at what point did the cover up start? after the head blow? or after the strangulation? If one or both found her after the head blow..how did they give up on her? how did they jump to the conclusion she was dying? Would the first reaction not be to get help in case their was any chance she could be saved? she still had a heart beat...so why jump to there is no hope?

 

[sloane7777]

At first I entertained an intruder , than after a few Days I saw a pic of Broham looking at her and my mind was made up since then !
I